Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 part XI| Witty Title

[Foppa2118]

I think we're seeing a lull in terms of goaltending talent. Most of us spent our formative years watching three generational talents in Roy, Brodeur, and Hasek rule the roost, and even then the next-tier-down guys were Eddie Belfour and Curtis Joseph. The current crop doesn't even come close IMO. It's kinda like what we're seeing in the NFL after my generation grew up seeing all kinds of astounding talents at QB.

I think it's actually the opposite leading to goaltenders not being as consistently dominant as they once were. I think as a whole, goaltending in the NHL is way better than it used to be. So are teams and coaching though. There's very few bad teams and very few bad coaches anymore.

Goaltenders face a tougher challenge than they did in the past, when there were a lot more soft games, and soft opponents. Every team has some level of a good system in place, and every team has good shooters. Goaltenders can't afford to have off nights and win anymore. They could in the past.

 

[Pokecheque]

I'd add to my previous statement the argument I've been maintaining for most of the summer--that hockey's overly-conservative culture has bred a group of stodgy, like-minded people who are all incapable of thinking outside the box. It's why I think a majority of NHL GMs are mediocre-to-bad, and organizations don't get more stodgy and risk-averse than when it comes to goaltending. Boomer Gordon was on NHL Radio and openly challenged the notion that ya gotta wait until a prospect is 25-27 before he can be a starter. I mean...why!? The analytics crowd has more or less disproven the popular notion that it's a lot harder to develop a defenseman than it is a forward. It's not. It's just that the margin for error for a blueliner is less than a forward. Double that for a goalie, obviously.

I'm not saying we should be seeing all kinds of superstar netminders in the league, but really, you shouldn't need one to be successful. And there are soooooooo many places to get a decent netminder, yet teams just keep recycling the same aging garbage over and over again. How many more times we gotta wait before the league finally realizes Brian Elliott ain't that good!?

I suppose I shouldn't complain too much though. Bad goaltending means more goals. And while goaltending ain't great as a whole right now, it's still light years from what we witnessed in the '80s.

 

[dahrougem2]

You lot are crazy about numbers, when I told you lads that goalkeeping numbers are some of the flukiest in all of analytics (what I mean is heavily weighed on by a team's talent level). Holtby gets to play on a powerhouse club every single year after year. Bob plays on the effin Columbus Blue Jackets who do not have a player that comes close to Ovechkin's or even Backstrom's talent level - Panarin is pretty close though. Even though Vezina is a teammate trophy, Bobrovsky's wins' are much more influential for me than Holtby's or any single Brodeur's considering how he played behind the most defencive team in decades with the Devils. I guarantee that if you put Bob on Washington they still win the Cup - perhaps that's not because Holtby is bad or anything, but because Sergei is a wonderful goaler in his own right. If Bob goes to Nashville, they win multiple cups.

This isn't going anywhere so this is my last post on this discussion - I'll read any rebuttals, but you guys are wrong.

There's just no defending Bobrovsky compared to Holtby. Just isn't. Nobody is saying Bobrovsky is a poor goaltender, but he's not Braden Holtby until he can prove otherwise. Whether you're a numbers guy or not, the discrepancy in the playoffs is so astronomical that an argument for Bob just cannot be made.

 

[McMetal]

I'd add to my previous statement the argument I've been maintaining for most of the summer--that hockey's overly-conservative culture has bred a group of stodgy, like-minded people who are all incapable of thinking outside the box. It's why I think a majority of NHL GMs are mediocre-to-bad, and organizations don't get more stodgy and risk-averse than when it comes to goaltending. Boomer Gordon was on NHL Radio and openly challenged the notion that ya gotta wait until a prospect is 25-27 before he can be a starter. I mean...why!? The analytics crowd has more or less disproven the popular notion that it's a lot harder to develop a defenseman than it is a forward. It's not. It's just that the margin for error for a blueliner is less than a forward. Double that for a goalie, obviously.

I'm not saying we should be seeing all kinds of superstar netminders in the league, but really, you shouldn't need one to be successful. And there are soooooooo many places to get a decent netminder, yet teams just keep recycling the same aging garbage over and over again. How many more times we gotta wait before the league finally realizes Brian Elliott ain't that good!?

I suppose I shouldn't complain too much though. Bad goaltending means more goals. And while goaltending ain't great as a whole right now, it's still light years from what we witnessed in the '80s.

The thing is though, for some teams Elliott is the best they can get, because there aren't enough true starters to go around. Elliott is bad and all, but it could be worse, you could have Glass, Domingue, or Niemi as your 1G.

Like I said, not enough starters to go around, which is why I'm not as keen to move on from Varley as some others are. Finding a starter during a cup window is HARD, just ask Philly. You can either open up your wallet on the rare free agent starters like Bishop and Anderson (and the teams that lose that lottery are screwed), or trade for a promising prospect like Gustavsson or Grubauer and hope and pray they don't turn into a Pickard when given the starter load.

 

[AvsMakar08]

The thing is though, for some teams Elliott is the best they can get, because there aren't enough true starters to go around. Elliott is bad and all, but it could be worse, you could have Glass, Domingue, or Niemi as your 1G.

Like I said, not enough starters to go around, which is why I'm not as keen to move on from Varley as some others are. Finding a starter during a cup window is HARD, just ask Philly. You can either open up your wallet on the rare free agent starters like Bishop and Anderson (and the teams that lose that lottery are screwed), or trade for a promising prospect like Gustavsson or Grubauer and hope and pray they don't turn into a Pickard when given the starter load.

This is a bit off topic but I think that Sakic addressed our goalie situation as best as he could. Avs got a goalie that could be a number one on a team in Grubauer and they also got one of the top KHL goalies while playing in on not so great KHL team.

 

[Anders Cain]

This is a bit off topic but I think that Sakic addressed our goalie situation as best as he could. Avs got a goalie that could be a number one on a team in Grubauer and they also got one of the top KHL goalies while playing in on not so great KHL team.

Yep I agree. I don't think joe could have done much else. Kept the former vezina nominee guy and see if he regains form... Pick up a great younger goalie in grubauer to challenge him, and take a shot on an NHL unknown who played very well in the khl. He can't just go out and find another Patrick roy to trade for, so hes trying to shore up the position in different ways

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Sergei Bobrovsky is the Matt Duchene of goalies.

 

[Pokecheque]

The thing is though, for some teams Elliott is the best they can get, because there aren't enough true starters to go around. Elliott is bad and all, but it could be worse, you could have Glass, Domingue, or Niemi as your 1G.

Like I said, not enough starters to go around, which is why I'm not as keen to move on from Varley as some others are. Finding a starter during a cup window is HARD, just ask Philly. You can either open up your wallet on the rare free agent starters like Bishop and Anderson (and the teams that lose that lottery are screwed), or trade for a promising prospect like Gustavsson or Grubauer and hope and pray they don't turn into a Pickard when given the starter load.

Oh I'm concerned about the transition from Varly as well, but I think they're at least going about it the right way. They went and got the best available guy on the market and signed guy with serious potential from Europe. They're in a tough spot, because the other option is to spend big on Varly and I think most everyone here can agree he simply isn't durable enough at this point.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for Philly. They dug that hole on their own, no one did it to them. If they had shown an ounce of patience with Bob they'd have a viable starter right now instead of hoping/praying Carter Hart develops in a hurry.

I agree, there's certainly not enough legit starters in the league but I still think too many teams just look at the same handful of guys instead of looking outside the league for depth. Look at the Rangers--they just happened to invite a young undrafted Bulgarian-Russian goaltender to their development camp and now he's their backup. Too soon to say if Georgiev will be anything more than that but at least it's a better option than teams passing around Elliott and Mason like a game of hot potato. Before that NY acquired Raanta from Chicago for cheap and did quite well with him. I don't think they just got lucky--they know what they're doing. Having an Allaire brother helps I suppose.

That's why I like the Francouz signing, at least they're trying something different.

 

[Nzap]

What is up with Toby Enström?
Has he signed anywhere?
Not saying we should sign him, but just curious about the situation.

 

[UncleRisto]

What is up with Toby Enström?
Has he signed anywhere?
Not saying we should sign him, but just curious about the situation.

Here's the latest.

Hoppas fortfarande på stjärnvärvningen

 

[Perratrooper]

To Cgy:
Varlamov

To Col:
Bennett
Rittich
Conditional 5th (becomes 3rd if Calgary makes playoffs and Varly plays 40 games, becomes a 2nd if they make it past the first round or Varly re-signs, 1st if Calgary makes the finals).

I get Varly is immensely talented, but I think he’s gone at the end of the season regardless of how Grubauer does so we might as well get something for him.

I get Bennet hasn’t lived up to his high draft position, but I think a fresh start with new expectations would be good for him. He brings a lot of the same things Landy does and plays fairly physical at times.

Landy-MacK-Rantanen
Jost-Sodaberg-Compher
Bennett-Kerfoot-Ghetto
Nieto-Kamenev-Calvert
Zadorov-Johnson
Nemeth-Barrie
Girard-Cole
Grubauer
Rittich

 

[Balthazar]

CGY is fighting with us for a playoff spot.

 

[Pokecheque]

Here's the latest.

Hoppas fortfarande på stjärnvärvningen

Google translated the headline to this:

Still hoping for star wars

 

[Patagonia]

To Cgy:
Varlamov

To Col:
Bennett
Rittich
Conditional 5th (becomes 3rd if Calgary makes playoffs and Varly plays 40 games, becomes a 2nd if they make it past the first round or Varly re-signs, 1st if Calgary makes the finals).

I get Varly is immensely talented, but I think he’s gone at the end of the season regardless of how Grubauer does so we might as well get something for him.

I get Bennet hasn’t lived up to his high draft position, but I think a fresh start with new expectations would be good for him. He brings a lot of the same things Landy does and plays fairly physical at times.

Landy-MacK-Rantanen
Jost-Sodaberg-Compher
Bennett-Kerfoot-Ghetto
Nieto-Kamenev-Calvert
Zadorov-Johnson
Nemeth-Barrie
Girard-Cole
Grubauer
Rittich

There is no chance CGY will take Varly @ $6M + Smith @ $4M forming a $10M Goalie tandem and give up Bennett. Maybe swapping Goalies might work with the following deal.

Varly

For

Smith
Bennett
Rittich
Conditional 2nd

 

[UncleRisto]

Google translated the headline to this:

Still hoping for star wars

Yeah, that’s the gist of it.

 

[agentblack]

To Cgy:


I get Varly is immensely talented, but I think he’s gone at the end of the season regardless of how Grubauer does so we might as well get something for him.

I really dont see a scenario in which we trade Varly, if he plays to the level we know he can, he's the no. 1. , if he's subpar to poor...well thats that then and we're in trouble. The best we can hope for is that they both play well and we just run with a great goalie tandem into the playoffs.

 

[henchman21]

Why does Calgary move away from Smith for a riskier bet? Smith isn't great, but he is good enough to not be the issue in Calgary. The real issue there was coaching...

 

[Anders Cain]

To Cgy:
Varlamov

To Col:
Bennett
Rittich
Conditional 5th (becomes 3rd if Calgary makes playoffs and Varly plays 40 games, becomes a 2nd if they make it past the first round or Varly re-signs, 1st if Calgary makes the finals).

I get Varly is immensely talented, but I think he’s gone at the end of the season regardless of how Grubauer does so we might as well get something for him.

I get Bennet hasn’t lived up to his high draft position, but I think a fresh start with new expectations would be good for him. He brings a lot of the same things Landy does and plays fairly physical at times.

Landy-MacK-Rantanen
Jost-Sodaberg-Compher
Bennett-Kerfoot-Ghetto
Nieto-Kamenev-Calvert
Zadorov-Johnson
Nemeth-Barrie
Girard-Cole
Grubauer
Rittich

I do agree varly is gone after this season I think. Unless he magically stays healthy and puts up. 920 sv and plays a good chunk of games

 

[BKarchitect]

We've seen time and time again that goalies have minimal trade value. Keep Varly and if Grubsy shows he can take the reigns, you just let Varly walk. It's not a big deal. I certainly would not contemplate trading him until I know what I have in Grubsy and I certainly would not trade him to a conference rival, on the chance Varly gets hot and single-handedly drops his old team out of a playoff spot. The potential return is not worth the risk. If Carolina or some Eastern team wants to offer us something great at the deadline then maybe. But for now, I think he's not only in the Avs' plans for 18-19, he's still "the man" in net here until Grubauer unseats him.

 

[lonelybadger]

I would not want a Gurbauer + Francouz tandem for a team that is most likely going to regress anyway. A few poor games by the unproven goaltenders and the season could go off the rails really quickly.

 

[Meeqs]

I think a lot of people on here are being too short sighted with goalies. The Avs really need a long term solution and that's why Grub was a moderate acquisition. It gives the Avs another 3 years to find a long term guy with the potential for Grubs to play well enough to surpass that. Finding goalies through drafting is complete luck so you really just take a shot on a guy each year and hope for the best, but you can also make a stacked defense and most goalies will be able to do the job. See NSH, WPG, and WSH.
Outside of that and getting lucky, you just make sure you stock pile enough picks and prospects so when one is available you can be the team to get them.

 

[Tweaky]

My thoughts: Varly is going nowhere for a while. At least until Gru proves he can be at least 95% of the goalie a healthy Varly can be. That said, if Feb rolls around and Varly is not outlaying Gru, AND Francouz is stonewalling the AHL, then I think they will ship Steve off to the highest bidder. But If either one of Gru or Frank falter, Varly is here to stay, including a new contract.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

i love our goaltending depth, would not want to touch it. Its such an important position for a young offensively oriented team.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't think they'll move Varly. Especially after last year when both their goaltenders went down with injuries. If Grubauer or Francouz prove themselves capable starters in the NHL, I think they'll keep all three for the depth next year, and then let Varly walk as a UFA.

 

[Patagonia]

I don't think they'll move Varly. Especially after last year when both their goaltenders went down with injuries. If Grubauer or Francouz prove themselves capable starters in the NHL, I think they'll keep all three for the depth next year, and then let Varly walk as a UFA.

Rumoured about the Leafs moving or waiving Picard could be a backup option.