Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 17-18 Part VIII

[UncleRisto]

We can't wait to swap our defenseman coming off a 57 point season for one coming off a 21 point season, can we?

 

[Meeqs]

No worries. Just found it an odd thing to throw in there.

The Avs MO is when there are done with a player, they are done. It has always been that sort of culture. Even players like Stewart and Wolski who were talented and produced decently, they were irritating enough for management to quickly move on. If Jost struggles next year in a #2C role, and only puts up ~20-25 points... 19-20 would be a make or break year for him IMO. After that the Avs would probably look to move on. It isn't too dissimilar to what Calgary is doing with Sam Bennett. A very promising player that showed some real positive signs early, only to struggle and now the team and him are in a purgatory. They don't want to sell low and see him flourish elsewhere, but he isn't good enough for the role they need either. Without the proper support and development, I could easily see Jost going down a similar path.

The risk of a Klef/Barrie swap is even beyond the differences between them as players... Barrie is the only proven, natural RD in the organization behind EJ, and EJ is quite injury prone.

Again none of those players went on to other teams and found success, it was just the Avs properly evaluating them. Especially Stewart who got the Avs EJ. So I still don't agree with that statement. The Avs were just a really garbage team for a while and ruined half a decade through Praceys shit drafting.

Jost is young and will be fine, already has the tools and has grown a ton in his first year, really just needs to get some more speed. Bennett is just a bust, it happens.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Klef+ 10 for Barrie

Sign Carlson and JT in FA

Profit.

 

[Meeqs]

Klef+ 10 for Barrie

Sign Carlson and JT in FA

Profit.

I'd do 10 + Klef for Barrie would be hard to turn down. EDM has said they aren't moving the 1st this year but they are also run by a crazy person so who knows.

Its really hard to tell what the market for Barrie would be.

I'm all for going after JT in FA but don't think Carlson happens, nor do I think thats the greatest idea.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Forget to add, try and move 10 and 16 for Zadina.


Profit.

 

[hockeyfish]

Klefbom + #10 + Yamamoto + Lucic(@4.0M) for Barrie?



Who says no? Avs can keep Lucic around for a year or two while the cap isn't a big deal, and trade him down the road or get Seattle to take him in the expansion.


Then trade #16 + Kerfoot for Skinner. Sign Carlson this summer to replace Barrie and we've got:



Zadorov - EJ
Klefbom - Carlson
Girard - Nemeth




Landeskog - Mackinnon - Rantanen
Skinner - Jost - Yamamoto
Lucic - Soderberg - Compher
Nieto - Kamenev - Andrighetto

Swap Klefbom and Girard there.

 

[Pokecheque]

A surprising amount of you seem very, very high on Skinner and very low on Greer. I just have to say I'm not with either of those notions. And yes, injuries have played a HUGE part in limiting Skinner's development, do not kid yourselves for an instant.

Mind you, I'm not saying AJG is going to be some big star, but I'm still fairly confident he'll be a solid depth player for the Avs. My only concern is if last season's injury-riddled year was not an anomaly.

 

[Freudian]

Probably not that big of an add. Contract makes Klefbom fairly valuable despite his struggles.

Well, I think so. CapFriendly is down for server maintenance.

What's so great about his contract, other than term? His salary is too high for what he brought to the NHL this far.

 

[Papa Francouz]

EJ for #10, RNH, and Puljujarvi. Sign Carlson as an UFA. Make the biggest push that’s ever been made in human history for Tavares.

 

[agentblack]

A surprising amount of you seem very, very high on Skinner and very low on Greer. I just have to say I'm not with either of those notions. And yes, injuries have played a HUGE part in limiting Skinner's development, do not kid yourselves for an instant.

Mind you, I'm not saying AJG is going to be some big star, but I'm still fairly confident he'll be a solid depth player for the Avs. My only concern is if last season's injury-riddled year was not an anomaly.

Ive also read Skinner is pretty much useless unless he's scoring, and that was coming from Canes fans, but they've been through crap so maybe they are just being dramatic

 

[UncleRisto]

A surprising amount of you seem very, very high on Skinner and very low on Greer. I just have to say I'm not with either of those notions. And yes, injuries have played a HUGE part in limiting Skinner's development, do not kid yourselves for an instant.

He hasn't missed significant time in years, he just played an 82-game season, and he's a 0.65 PPG average over his career. He also averages 25 goals a season over his career, even with one of them being a half a season.

 

[hockeyfish]

What's so great about his contract, other than term? His salary is too high for what he brought to the NHL this far.

Has he been that bad? I haven't put too much thought into the Oilers.

 

[henchman21]

Again none of those players went on to other teams and found success, it was just the Avs properly evaluating them. Especially Stewart who got the Avs EJ. So I still don't agree with that statement. The Avs were just a really garbage team for a while and ruined half a decade through Praceys **** drafting.

Jost is young and will be fine, already has the tools and has grown a ton in his first year, really just needs to get some more speed. Bennett is just a bust, it happens.

Both Wolski and Stewart had decent success afterwards. Their flaws still came to light over time and the Avs weren’t wrong... they did lose patience.

I’d be careful on the Bennett/Jost thing. Bennett was a superior prospect and every season he has had in the NHL was superior to Jost’s. Especially just comparing rookie seasons. Just because Jost is still a pure prospect, doesn’t mean a similar path won’t happen.

 

[Freudian]

Has he been that bad? I haven't put too much thought into the Oilers.

He did play through injuries this year, so he'll probably bounce back but he's more of a mid pairing guy than a top pairing guy so it's not like $4.167M cap hit is a massive steal. It's probably fair going forward.

Some Oiler fans got carried away by 2016-17, just like some Leafs fans got carried away by Gardiner in the past.

 

[Foppa2118]

To me rushing Jost into the #2C role with no insulation is a real quick way to destroy his confidence and have the organization sour. I've seen it over and over again throughout the history of the NHL. Putting players in situations they are not ready for usually hurts far more than it helps. The Avs are not known for being real patient, and if Jost isn't playing well at the end of his ELC, they may look to swap. I agree the Avs have some time, but I don't think they have as much as people think. The window has to open by 19-20 to give the team a good 4-5 years of contention. Every year they wait past 19-20, will just make the window narrower and narrower. The Avs should do everything they can to avoid getting into a St Louis/Minnesota situation where they have a good team, but can't really ever contend because they think they have longer than they do and there is always next year or two years. To me, next season is the last mulligan year this group has... and even then they should be trying to make progress.

I'm pretty sure you have yet to make anything resembling a positive post about Jost. Every post you make about him has a pessimistic slant to it.

 

[Avs_19]

Klefbom is a good player and I'd do it if Sakic could get another good asset in the deal. Something like Barrie and Ghetto for Klefbom and the 10th pick. I doubt the Oilers would be interested in that though.

 

[Foppa2118]

Both Wolski and Stewart had decent success afterwards. Their flaws still came to light over time and the Avs weren’t wrong... they did lose patience.

I’d be careful on the Bennett/Jost thing. Bennett was a superior prospect and every season he has had in the NHL was superior to Jost’s. Especially just comparing rookie seasons. Just because Jost is still a pure prospect, doesn’t mean a similar path won’t happen.

Tyson Jost is nothing like Wolski or Stewart. They moved on from them because of their lack of work ethic. This is one of Jost's biggest strengths. That's why they're high on him, not on the verge of losing patience with him like you suggest.

He's also nothing like Bigras, Bleakley, Everberg, Rendulic, Heard, Bourke, Smith, Hishon, Gaunce, etc. Not sure why you would compare them, and the Avs handling of them, to Jost. Except just to paint him in a negative light.

 

[McMetal]

I'm with hench. Jost is not ready for the 2C spot and going into next season asking him to play that role is a disaster waiting to happen. Which is why we need a stopgap there like Stastny until SOMEBODY in the org is ready for that role, because right now the best option we have there is Soderberg, and there is no second place candidate yet.

Now, will they do anything about that is a more interesting question. I think they're a little more clear-eyed than to believe Jost is their 2C after one rookie campaign. Regardless of how high on him they are as far as potential goes, they have to see that his development isn't there yet even if it might be someday.

 

[Pokecheque]

He hasn't missed significant time in years, he just played an 82-game season, and he's a 0.65 PPG average over his career. He also averages 25 goals a season over his career, even with one of them being a half a season.

That wasn't the point--the injuries have already taken a toll in that it hampered his development and forced him to adjust his game to where he's less effective. He's roughly a 50ish point player, which is perfectly good, but I don't think he'll be worth whatever price Waddell is trying to extract. I like him as a player, I'm just not terribly bullish on him. If Waddell is selling him for cheap then hell yeah, go get him. I think they're swinging for the fences, BUT, it's Waddell so who knows what's going on in that turtlenecked brain of his.

 

[Foppa2118]

I think people have a misunderstanding of where the Avs are at as a franchise, and where Sakic views them to be. They're still a young team that's building for the future. They're not a Cup challenging team looking to make a sophomore their permanent 2c. They're looking to evaluate the young players they have, and where they might be able to slot in for the future. Jost is one of them.

There isn't really much difference between a Jost centered "2nd line" and a Soda centered "3rd line" unless one of them struggles, or one of them has success.

People are getting way too hung up on the title of 2C for Tyson Jost next year. If it puts people at ease just call him a 3C with the same line mates. There won't be much distinction between the 2nd line and the 3rd line next year, unless one of the lines separates themselves from the other.

 

[UncleRisto]

That wasn't the point--the injuries have already taken a toll in that it hampered his development and forced him to adjust his game to where he's less effective. He's roughly a 50ish point player, which is perfectly good, but I don't think he'll be worth whatever price Waddell is trying to extract. I like him as a player, I'm just not terribly bullish on him. If Waddell is selling him for cheap then hell yeah, go get him. I think they're swinging for the fences, BUT, it's Waddell so who knows what's going on in that turtlenecked brain of his.

Wasn't there just word the ask was a first and a prospect?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

We’re going to get Carey Price aren’t we?

It’s a lot of money, but I’d love to have him. He’s better than every other goalie on the planet. You guys remember 33?

 

[hockeyfish]

We’re going to get Carey Price aren’t we?

It’s a lot of money, but I’d love to have him. He’s better than every other goalie on the planet. You guys remember 33?

Eh, make a play for Grubauer.

Honestly, that may be better use of the 16th vs Skinner.

 

[Foppberg]

No thanks on Price, too pricey.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Has he been that bad? I haven't put too much thought into the Oilers.

No. He's a Top pairing Defender. Typical recency bias is playing out if people think he isn't one.