Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 17-18 Part VIII

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Settle down there champ.

Call me crazy but thinking the 16th overall and an average prospect is going to get a 26 year old who has 3- 30 goal seasons and 204 goals in 8 years is not going to happen.

I'll just repeat myself again. Do some research instead of blasting the opinions of everyone else...


You might learn something.

 

[Meeqs]

Yes of course otherwise I'd not have said that.

Just checking, as I wasn't sure. Thanks for the info. Wonder if that ends up hurting the Canes ability to move him like Spezza a few years ago

 

[Meeqs]

To me rushing Jost into the #2C role with no insulation is a real quick way to destroy his confidence and have the organization sour. I've seen it over and over again throughout the history of the NHL. Putting players in situations they are not ready for usually hurts far more than it helps. The Avs are not known for being real patient, and if Jost isn't playing well at the end of his ELC, they may look to swap. I agree the Avs have some time, but I don't think they have as much as people think. The window has to open by 19-20 to give the team a good 4-5 years of contention. Every year they wait past 19-20, will just make the window narrower and narrower. The Avs should do everything they can to avoid getting into a St Louis/Minnesota situation where they have a good team, but can't really ever contend because they think they have longer than they do and there is always next year or two years. To me, next season is the last mulligan year this group has... and even then they should be trying to make progress.

Pretty much all of that I'd say is incorrect. The past 3 years the Avs haven't rushed anyone. Mikko got an entire year in the AHL even though he was ready to mature, Compher got plenty of time. Jost started on the 4th line for the first half of the year and slowly worked his way up. Pretty much every young Avs player saw a great jump in growth under the current coaching staff. To say the Avs rush young players or put them in bad spots is simply ignorant. As I said in the previous post, while Jost is the young player with the best chance of becoming a solid 2nd line player he isn't there yet which is why Soderberg and his line were used as the 2nd line and given those match ups.

The Avs just infused a ton of young players and moved Duchene for a bunch of picks and prospects. The Avs have the next 2 years to make smart efficient deals and let the young kids grow and by that point they should be going for cup runs. It could happen sooner than that but I think the Avs have about 2 years where they can be patient and grow from within (like WPG did for example).

Min/Stl's issue was not having the top end talent that it takes to win the cup and in Min's case getting too many players on bad cap efficient deals in UFA and grid locking themselves. The Avs have the top end talent, now its just getting the depth.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Just checking, as I wasn't sure. Thanks for the info. Wonder if that ends up hurting the Canes ability to move him like Spezza a few years ago

It hasn't really been brought up much, but yeah. Some texts between Landy and Skinner could go a long way in our favor. It would only be prudent to let your captain know you're thinking of bringing in a high end forward anyways.

MacK and Landy need to be pulling on those connection strings this off-season.

 

[Meeqs]

It hasn't really been brought up much, but yeah. Some texts between Landy and Skinner could go a long way in our favor. It would only be prudent to let your captain know you're thinking of bringing in a high end forward anyways.

I mean Hoffman and Patches out of MTL are both available as well so it'll be interesting to see what the cost for each ends up being. I just feel like there will be a team who will offer more for Skinner than the Avs but Sakic has a great rep for fooling dumb GMs.

 

[Patagonia]

I wouldn’t say the Avs need to rush things, but they have to take advantage of Mack’s contract assuming he’s turned the corner into being an elite player.

Skinner only has a year remaining to UFA.

What is the rush? Skinner needs to remove his NMC clause to accept an AVs offer. Knowing the limited teams allowed in the bidding, AVs can simply offer 16 + prospect.

If the Canes refuse, AVs keep their pick and prospects sign Skinner next season.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I mean Hoffman and Patches out of MTL are both available as well so it'll be interesting to see what the cost for each ends up being. I just feel like there will be a team who will offer more for Skinner than the Avs but Sakic has a great rep for fooling dumb GMs.

Does anyone here really want to pay the price for Max P at his age though? I doubt Sakic would feel differently.

Hoff could be an option, but you just know they'd be trying to get their pick back in the deal. Hoff? 201.. Stone? zzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Patagonia]

If that's what it takes then you do it. Skinner is too much of a perfect fit to pass.

That said, I'd prefer to trade Kerfoot than Bowers.

I agree on Kerfoot, but uncertain the perception by College UFA on choosing the AVs and to be later flipped.

 

[Meeqs]

Does anyone here really want to pay the price for Max P at his age though? I doubt Sakic would feel differently.

Hoff could be an option, but you just know they'd be trying to get their pick back in the deal. Hoff? 201.. Stone? zzzzzzzzzzz

Its more that the idea is Max Ps value is really low now that the relationship has degraded so far. Also the rumored ask for Hoffman is supposedly quite high. I just think its interesting as all 3 are pretty similar players being offered by glue eating GMs.

I don't think any but Skinner would be an option if he is cheap but the Avs in general aren't in a spot to be moving a bunch of futures they spent so long acquiring.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Skinner only has a year remaining to UFA.

What is the rush? Skinner needs to remove his NMC clause to accept an AVs offer. Knowing the limited teams allowed in the bidding, AVs can simply offer 16 + prospect.

If the Canes refuse, AVs keep their pick and prospects sign Skinner next season.

I’m not saying rush and make a move for Skinner. I’m with Henchy, we really need to stabilize the second line going forward and take advantage of Mack’s contract while we can. Now this doesn’t mean screw asset management and trade every pick we have for current players and all that. But we definitely should be keeping tabs on young available forward talent and take advantage when possible.

 

[henchman21]

Pretty much all of that I'd say is incorrect. The past 3 years the Avs haven't rushed anyone. Mikko got an entire year in the AHL even though he was ready to mature, Compher got plenty of time. Jost started on the 4th line for the first half of the year and slowly worked his way up. Pretty much every young Avs player saw a great jump in growth under the current coaching staff. To say the Avs rush young players or put them in bad spots is simply ignorant. As I said in the previous post, while Jost is the young player with the best chance of becoming a solid 2nd line player he isn't there yet which is why Soderberg and his line were used as the 2nd line and given those match ups.

The Avs just infused a ton of young players and moved Duchene for a bunch of picks and prospects. The Avs have the next 2 years to make smart efficient deals and let the young kids grow and by that point they should be going for cup runs. It could happen sooner than that but I think the Avs have about 2 years where they can be patient and grow from within (like WPG did for example).

Min/Stl's issue was not having the top end talent that it takes to win the cup and in Min's case getting too many players on bad cap efficient deals in UFA and grid locking themselves. The Avs have the top end talent, now its just getting the depth.

Wow... calling me ignorant... interesting....

Anyways... I said the Avs are not real patient, not that they rush. It used to be that they rushed a lot more. That has changed and they have given slower paces over the years including Rants. They have still rushed too, Jost wasn't ready to start last year and they forced it. They are still not a patient organization though. If a player isn't showing real positive signs by the end of their ELC or year following, they tend to dump them or just let them go. We have seen it with Bigras, Bleakley (even before his contract), Everberg, Rendulic, Heard, Bourke, Smith, Hishon, Gaunce, etc. The Avs don't hold onto young player if they don't meet expectations. They will swap them later on. Even players like Everberg, Marty, Bigras, etc have proven somethings at the NHL level, the Avs have moved on from. Higher profile players like Wolski have even had tight leashes. The Avs are not a patient organization. They have improved, but still show a lot of signs of impatience.

 

[Eltuna]

Apparently Stauffer was openly speculating today about a Klefbom Barrie trade. This goes well with his different ingredients comment yesterday. He knew the Hall and Eberle trades ahead of time so maybe there is something there.

 

[BKarchitect]

16th + Bowers is too rich for me for potentially one year of Skinner. Greer or even Meloche I’d agree to. Bowers really impressed last year and is probably going to be a key player for Team Canada next winter. He was just a first round pick and has done nothing but impress. Skinner is great and would be a good fit for what we need but I’d move on to other options if there’s a bidding war. I’m not giving up two first round assets for the chance he moves on next summer. We can add more wisely than that...we can improve without giving up multiple really valuable team building assets just because we have a bunch now. Yes, let’s improve and take advantage of momentum but Skinner is not the only option.

Sure, if he’s signed 6x6.5 with the deal, that’s a different story...

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Apparently Stauffer was openly speculating today about a Klefbom Barrie trade. This goes well with his different ingredients comment yesterday. He knew the Hall and Eberle trades ahead of time so maybe there is something there.

Gross, Klefbom would need to come with a big + if we are trading Barrie for him.

 

[Avs44]

Apparently Stauffer was openly speculating today about a Klefbom Barrie trade. This goes well with his different ingredients comment yesterday. He knew the Hall and Eberle trades ahead of time so maybe there is something there.

I think Stauffer's been talking about Barrie to Edmonton for years at this point. There is zero incentive for the Avs to touch that one unless Klefbom comes with a really big +

 

[Eltuna]

I agree there would be a plus, Stauffer seems to be the guy that Oilers managment uses to put out a trade before it happens so I think it’s worth mentioning. Especially after the different ingredients comment. It’s something I think Edmonton would definitely do but I’m not sure what the incentive for the Avs would be considering the years Barrie and Klefbom had.

 

[Meeqs]

Gross, Klefbom would need to come with a big + if we are trading Barrie for him.

Klef is coming off a down year so his value is a bit low, is locked into a good contract, is 2 years younger and is left handed. He also isnt as good of a dman imo but he is still easily a top 4 guy. So I actually think there could be something to this as an option because it really balances out the Avs lines. Giving Klef, Girard and Z on the left and eventually EJ, Makar and Timmins on the right.

My biggest issue is what else EDM would have to add as they don't have anything obvious and after this season Barries value should be at an all time high. PC is nuts so are we assuming the add would be someone large like RNH or poolparty? Also what other deals are out there for Barrie that might be a better fit for the Avs needs.

Also are the Avs worried that with Car going crazy they will sell low on Faulk and hurt the market for Barrie? Who knows. Its an interesting thought though that I wouldn't dismiss

 

[Foppberg]

Klef + Draisaitl

 

[Freudian]

I would expect a big add to Klefbom for Barrie.

 

[Meeqs]

Wow... calling me ignorant... interesting....

Anyways... I said the Avs are not real patient, not that they rush. It used to be that they rushed a lot more. That has changed and they have given slower paces over the years including Rants. They have still rushed too, Jost wasn't ready to start last year and they forced it. They are still not a patient organization though. If a player isn't showing real positive signs by the end of their ELC or year following, they tend to dump them or just let them go. We have seen it with Bigras, Bleakley (even before his contract), Everberg, Rendulic, Heard, Bourke, Smith, Hishon, Gaunce, etc. The Avs don't hold onto young player if they don't meet expectations. They will swap them later on. Even players like Everberg, Marty, Bigras, etc have proven somethings at the NHL level, the Avs have moved on from. Higher profile players like Wolski have even had tight leashes. The Avs are not a patient organization. They have improved, but still show a lot of signs of impatience.

Sorry man, when you're flipping though multiple posts sometimes some things accidentally carry over. Didn't mean to be rude.

While I am a big proponent that the Avs development system needs some major upgrades a lot of those guys simply weren't good enough and busts and thats more on the scouts (aka satan himself Pracey) than on the team(if that makes sense).

Its not like those guys did poorly here and went on to have success in other places.

 

[agentblack]

10th , Klef, and Bear for Barrie

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Klefbom + #10 + Yamamoto + Lucic(@4.0M) for Barrie?



Who says no? Avs can keep Lucic around for a year or two while the cap isn't a big deal, and trade him down the road or get Seattle to take him in the expansion.


Then trade #16 + Kerfoot for Skinner. Sign Carlson this summer to replace Barrie and we've got:



Zadorov - EJ
Klefbom - Carlson
Girard - Nemeth




Landeskog - Mackinnon - Rantanen
Skinner - Jost - Yamamoto
Lucic - Soderberg - Compher
Nieto - Kamenev - Andrighetto

 

[henchman21]

Sorry man, when you're flipping though multiple posts sometimes some things accidentally carry over. Didn't mean to be rude.

While I am a big proponent that the Avs development system needs some major upgrades a lot of those guys simply weren't good enough and busts and thats more on the scouts (aka satan himself Pracey) than on the team(if that makes sense).

Its not like those guys did poorly here and went on to have success in other places.

No worries. Just found it an odd thing to throw in there.

The Avs MO is when there are done with a player, they are done. It has always been that sort of culture. Even players like Stewart and Wolski who were talented and produced decently, they were irritating enough for management to quickly move on. If Jost struggles next year in a #2C role, and only puts up ~20-25 points... 19-20 would be a make or break year for him IMO. After that the Avs would probably look to move on. It isn't too dissimilar to what Calgary is doing with Sam Bennett. A very promising player that showed some real positive signs early, only to struggle and now the team and him are in a purgatory. They don't want to sell low and see him flourish elsewhere, but he isn't good enough for the role they need either. Without the proper support and development, I could easily see Jost going down a similar path.

The risk of a Klef/Barrie swap is even beyond the differences between them as players... Barrie is the only proven, natural RD in the organization behind EJ, and EJ is quite injury prone.

 

[Hasbro]

Try Lucic 50% retained + 10th for some stale Rocky Mountain Oysters

 

[hockeyfish]

I would expect a big add to Klefbom for Barrie.

Probably not that big of an add. Contract makes Klefbom fairly valuable despite his struggles.

Well, I think so. CapFriendly is down for server maintenance.