Rumor: Avs and Rantanen have had no negotiations

Kamiccolo

Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is.
Aug 30, 2011
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Dubas crumbled and gave into Nylander forcing him to overpay. Next, Dubas wanted to avoid the same situation with Matthews so he simply overpaid him early.

Everyone in the world knows that Marner is going to take advantage of the exact same situation a use Matthews as his comparable hence why every other high profile RFA are waiting on Marner to set the market with his overpayment.

Not even worth engaging these posts anymore. People will just repeat them over and over no matter what evidence is given.. Most likely because they get a lot of attention (likes from haters and replies from Leaf fans).
 

TomasHertlsRooster

Don’t say eye test when you mean points
May 14, 2012
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If you mean are some of these agents talking to each other and sharing info and strategies? Probably.

If you mean collusion by the legal definition.... not possible.

Brayden Point and Sebastian Aho’s respective agents discussing a potential offer sheet from Montreal:

C-658VsXoAo3ovC.jpg
 

Intangir

Registered User
Aug 14, 2008
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It very well could be the case, but what about the teams as well?

I don't believe there is collusion on either the players' part or the GMs' as it would be a bad move on either side to potentially face legal troubles during contract negotiations, and to a skillful lawyer a charge of tampering or collusion can be used in many ways to keep involved parties in line or penalize them if found guilty. More than that, I believe players and GMs have reasons besides the fear of being charged to avoid collusion altogether in this particular case.

On the NHLers' part, the contracts being negotiated here are individual ones, and it is true that these contracts will indeed set the market for RFAs now and for those who will look to sign contracts in the next year or two, so the NHLPA will also show its face potentially, but there is a whole slew of personal variables in play for the contracts themselves for each player (and their respective teams as well) in addition to their comparables, stats and everything else that justifies the pricetag of a particular player's contract. That fact probably means that even though the marquee RFA players probably do keep in touch with each others' situation and are aware of the market value they will set if they sign their deal, the very individualistic nature of these contracts and the way they're negotiated probably renders any collusion amongst the players inefficient and thus ''not worth it'' when put in relation with the risk of getting found out and facing legal action. Ultimately, the players will get paid and their agents will try to maximize that pay check in the few ways they can and that is either through indirect PR, hoping their teammates put additional pressure on the team, or holding out and not appearing in training camp/preseason/regular season games while hoping their GM finally caves in before they do, and that is quite the individual behavior, not something that you coordinate with everyone else.

On the GMs' part, artifically keeping RFA prices down might be a good thing as a whole, but they're also in direct competition against one another trying to establish and build the best team possible and their owners expect certain results out of them, so I believe that in this case the GMs' natural rivalry alongside the inherent difficulties that the tampering charges would bring is enough of a deterrent for them to avoid colluding altogether. They will however try to get their own players signed to the least amount of money possible in order to save their cap space and will be willing to use PR (basically making the player out to be a bad person through different ways in the hopes he receives enough backlash to force a signing) and start the training camp/preseason/regular season without the player to show him that they don't need him that much, hoping he gives in before their season gets under too much.

In the end, even though I don't think there is outright collusion in this case I believe there is at least a certain ''collegiality'' between the different parties involved, with players rooting for bigger salaries and shorter deals while GMs and their owners want to spend less money on bigger terms.
 

Patagonia

Keep Whining
Jan 6, 2017
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Ever since he opened his paywall site, he’s had a lot of attention-grabbing articles that can’t really be proven wrong. I’m not saying he IS wrong. I just don’t trust his motives yet.

AD just a few weeks ago mentioned there has been no talks. Lots of conflicting attention grabbing posts. I don't believe he's ever been reliable.
 
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Goulet17

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May 22, 2003
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Dater also was saying just a few weeks ago that Rantanen would be signed before training camp. Things change and the situation could be fluid, but he kind of has a pattern (at least in my mind) of saying completely different things within a relatively short period of time. He has gotten a few things right, it is just difficult to discern when he is wildly speculating versus legitimately reporting based on sources.
 
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cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
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What are you talking about? Both Rantanen and Sakic have said this summer that a long term contract is what both sides want.

Sure some guys might want less term but the main reason these guys haven’t signed is the incoming Mitch Marner overpayment that everyone in the hockey world predicted would happen after the Nylander/Matthews contracts were handed out.

They've never specified whether they mean 4-5 years or 7-8 when they say long-term. Just that they don't want to go bridge-deal here.

Mikko could very well be holding out for the same straight to UFA type deal that Matthews & Aho got, with Sakic only being willing to match the AAV Mikko wants if he can buy more than 1 UFA season.
 

John Eichel da GOAT

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Oct 7, 2008
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Dater likely has more sources from the pure fact he's been around the team longer, but I trust anything AJ says more. Dater is a clown with zero hockey knowledge after 2002 and he had a bad breakup with BSN. He's childish enough to post a conflicting story to anything they put out just because.
 

Dr Quincy

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Jun 19, 2005
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1) It's fine to have optimism that a deal will get done
2) However it's naive to think that all is fine, that Joe and Mikko both just wanted to enjoy their summers and that the deal is really easy to get done.

I think it's clear that the 2 parts have significantly different ideas about the kind of contract they want. Either one will blink 1st or they'll meet in the middle. But people passing this off as no big deal are a little deluded.
 
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Avaholic29

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Feb 5, 2014
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1) It's fine to have optimism that a deal will get done
2) However it's naive to think that all is fine, that Joe and Mikko both just wanted to enjoy their summers and that the deal is really easy to get done.

I think it's clear that the 2 parts have significantly different ideas about the kind of contract they want. Either one will blink 1st or they'll meet in the middle. But people passing this off as no big deal are a little deluded.

Haha, it's not a big deal, it's quite literally the common theme of every single RFA right now. Rantanen and sakic both want term so that tells me it's a money issue, that will get resolved and is usually the case for contract negotiation. Nothing new and nothing to stress over.
 
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John Eichel da GOAT

Registered User
Oct 7, 2008
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1) It's fine to have optimism that a deal will get done
2) However it's naive to think that all is fine, that Joe and Mikko both just wanted to enjoy their summers and that the deal is really easy to get done.

I think it's clear that the 2 parts have significantly different ideas about the kind of contract they want. Either one will blink 1st or they'll meet in the middle. But people passing this off as no big deal are a little deluded.
None of that is obvious at all. There are like 10 big named RFA's that will use eachother to go off of dollar wise. Everyone is looking at Aho's deal and saying "too cheap", even the GM's. So its all about who goes first and if its Marner, it will all trickle down from there. Or one of them says F it and signs for 8x8 or 8x9 and we all move on.
 

Muffin

Avalanche Flavoured
Aug 14, 2009
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Why are you lying? Why even bother posting if you’re just going to post fabricated stories instead of honestly engaging with posters who are here to talk about hockey instead of manipulating others?

I really hope there’s father or mother figure in your life to help guide you through what must be a confusing time for you.
Except literally everything he said was true, Brian Burke literally said the same thing on TV this week.
 

Dr Quincy

Registered User
Jun 19, 2005
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Haha, it's not a big deal, it's quite literally the common theme of every single RFA right now. Rantanen and sakic both want term so that tells me it's a money issue, that will get resolved and is usually the case for contract negotiation. Nothing new and nothing to stress over.
That's funny because other Avs fans say it's not a big deal because they agree on $ but not on term.

One of your best players isn't signed. It's an issue. Same with TOR, same with TB and others. It's not "freak out and panic" but it is a concern.
 

Goulet17

Registered User
May 22, 2003
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I can see things potentially going sideways between Rantanen and the Avs. The Avs have shown to be fairly rigid at times in negotiations and Sakic has shown that he is willing to take things to brink (and beyond). For some reason, I view Rantanen as potentially stubborn in negotiations. I have no idea how Liut fits into the equation.

It would be a shame to see the relationship between the Avs and Rantanen sour at such an early point in his career. It is worth monitoring.

This could be uncharted waters with the number of significant RFAs without a contract and seemingly everyone waiting for signings to produce more comparables. It is circular in some respects and at some point we will have to see some movement in contracts.

It is all about the pressure points and deadlines. First, the start of training camp, followed by the beginning of the season.
 

S3rkie

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Jul 21, 2011
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That's funny because other Avs fans say it's not a big deal because they agree on $ but not on term.

One of your best players isn't signed. It's an issue. Same with TOR, same with TB and others. It's not "freak out and panic" but it is a concern.
It's a concern when he actually misses a training camp day. As of right now we have a lot of no noise, a player and team that both want a deal done and a cap structure that can afford to pay him his ask even if they totally botch the negotiations. The only reports of any discourse is from a reporter who just started his own paywall, and has been throwing out click bait all summer. On top of that Mikko has done multiple interviews where he's said he's not worried or stressed about the deal, Sakic the same.
 
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Cousin Eddie

You Serious Clark?
Nov 3, 2006
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Sit out the whole season til they pay you what you want.
But if he sits out the entire season he will make $0 from the NHL.

That’s why I don’t understand why GM’s give in. Like yeah I realize these guys make the team better but in a season long game of chicken you’ll eventually see the player give in unlike what Dubas did with Nylander last year.

Rantanen and Marner can threaten to play in Norway all they want but at the end of the day they aren’t going to hold out all year and make $0 or $300,000ish if they play overseas just so that they can get an extra couple of hundred grand a year when it results in them losing out on 9-10M in year one. It completely defeats the purpose of the holdout.

If these guys were serious about holding out they’d be threatening to sign KHL contracts where there’s real money involved. Skating with teams in Switzerland and Norway only makes GM’s happy that they’re staying in game shape. They aren’t scaring anyone.
 

Foxtail

Registered User
Mar 31, 2018
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Sit out the whole season til they pay you what you want.
Might be sitting for years while they hold onto your rights.

That's what the Leafs should have done with Nylander, sit him and act like you were going to sit him again. When the player finally caves trade him to the worst team in the league
 

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