Auston Matthews Thread

[Durrr]

This is the time that we need to have Mathews and Tavares impose there will on the the game.

I don't see it.

Watched the Colorado game last night and McKinnon without his regular linemates not even missing a beat.
He was non stop skating all night.
Don't see it in Mathews or Taveras

Care to check how many points the great Nathan McKinnon had in his fourth season in the league? I'll help you, it was 53 in 82 games with 16 goals.

People love to compare these more complete players on more complete teams, and never take into account how they compared at the same age. Matthews has been so far ahead of where McKinnon was at that point in his career and it's not even close, hell he almost has as many goals in 23 games as Nathan did in that entire season.

 

[Trapper]

Care to check how many points the great Nathan McKinnon had in his fourth season in the league? I'll help you, it was 53 in 82 games with 16 goals.

People love to compare these more complete players on more complete teams, and never take into account how they compared at the same age. Matthews has been so far ahead of where McKinnon was at that point in his career and it's not even close, hell he almost has as many goals in 23 games as Nathan did in that entire season.

That’s fair but Colorado also had to radically change the team in Duchene, O’Reilly, Stastny, Shattenkirk, now Barrie etc. to make the team around a better quality.

Now with him thriving and a different team dynamic, things are looking good.
It may be something that needs to be done around Matthews.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Are you actually watching the game? Matthews and Nylander were buzzing and generating chances all night yesterday, and most nights through this stretch & season they are the only dangerous Leafs line.

Matthews has been dangerous at a 8-9 million per year level. Not McDavid money (when term is included).

outrageous contracts come with outrageous expectations.

Nylander is scoring at a 28 goal/70 point pace. Still not quite earning his contract, but pretty close. So I’m fine with his play so far this season.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Care to check how many points the great Nathan McKinnon had in his fourth season in the league? I'll help you, it was 53 in 82 games with 16 goals.

People love to compare these more complete players on more complete teams, and never take into account how they compared at the same age. Matthews has been so far ahead of where McKinnon was at that point in his career and it's not even close, hell he almost has as many goals in 23 games as Nathan did in that entire season.

Progression among players is not linear.

Also, that aves team was trash.

Matthews is no McKinnon.

 

[Stamkos4life]

In the month of October his first three years, Matthews scored at a 65 goal/107 point pace over 82. FAR higher than his career averages. He’s better in October. Always.

Compare that to his career average:

Per 82 games, he'd have 81 points and 43 goals.

That an increase of 22 goals and 26 points.

 

[horner]

Care to check how many points the great Nathan McKinnon had in his fourth season in the league? I'll help you, it was 53 in 82 games with 16 goals.

People love to compare these more complete players on more complete teams, and never take into account how they compared at the same age. Matthews has been so far ahead of where McKinnon was at that point in his career and it's not even close, hell he almost has as many goals in 23 games as Nathan did in that entire season.

wow .
why when people talk about Mathews.
people take it so personally.
you don't think McKinnon was question about his game at that time.

just so you understand i love the kid as a player.
it would be nice if he was more consistent in his play.
I would love for him to get a little more involved physically.
I don't think he knows how much room he can create for himself.
hopefully these things will come with time.

just don't take it so personally.

 

[Stamkos4life]

Tavares hasn’t looked good either. But he signed a fair contract for an unrestricted free agent. Fair contracts come with fair expectations. Hope he turns it around.
Matthews contract is outrageous. Outrageous contracts come with outrageous expectations. His play has been unacceptable.

When you sign for McDavid money, you'd better be close to McDavid quality.

Auston is already 16 points behind after just 23 games.

How many will he be behind by the end of the season?

 

[TheBigFour]

Didn't Matthews lead the team in expected goals % and procession last night, but just because he went scoreless, its bad game according to some people.

this is the first time this season he's gone two games without point and still leads the team with a big margin.

great player

 

[TheBigFour]

Marner also signed close to MCD money, and that guy can barely produce at 5 vs 5.
marner and Tavares play have been a bigger issue for this team this year than Matthews and Nylander

 

[Stamkos4life]

Marner also signed close to MCD money, and that guy can barely produce at 5 vs 5.
marner and Tavares play have been a bigger issue for this team this year than Matthews and Nylander

Last year marner had 73 even strength points. That just so happens to be Matthew's career high in points as well.

Marner only went for and got his money because dubas' handling of matthews' contract was so atrocious.

When a player has as many even strength points in a season as another player has total points, they deserve similar money.

 

[Fogelhund]

Marner and Tavares have been the far bigger issue than Matthews and Nylander. To boot, they are the two worst in GA/60, which I know has it's limitations, yet still....

 

[ULF_55]

I think Matthews is under performing, regardless of his points totals.

Perhaps I just watch too many Oilers games, and see how dynamic their 2 headed team is.

McDavid is 8 months older than Matthews, so I wouldn't say maturity is a big factor.

I think people can critique Matthews without suggesting he isn't the Leafs best player.

 

[ULF_55]

Marner and Tavares have been the far bigger issue than Matthews and Nylander. To boot, they are the two worst in GA/60, which I know has it's limitations, yet still....

Yeah, maybe with two lines performing the defense wouldn't be so crippling.

 

[Durrr]

Matthews has been dangerous at a 8-9 million per year level. Not McDavid money (when term is included).

outrageous contracts come with outrageous expectations.

Nylander is scoring at a 28 goal/70 point pace. Still not quite earning his contract, but pretty close. So I’m fine with his play so far this season.

When 50 point players are being handed out 6-7~ mil contracts, this is a bad take.

 

[Durrr]

Progression among players is not linear.

Also, that aves team was trash.

Matthews is no McKinnon.

You're right, Matthew's is a far superior player at a similar point in his career. The fact that progression isn't linear doesn't change the fact that Matthews is still a developing player, while having a similar player in Nylander to pair with as McKinnon did with Landescog in the early days.

 

[Stamkos4life]

You're right, Matthew's is a far superior player at a similar point in his career. The fact that progression isn't linear doesn't change the fact that Matthews is still a developing player, while having a similar player in Nylander to pair with as McKinnon did with Landescog in the early days.

Nylander also had 61 points in his 4th year compared to Nathan's 53. Also marner had more.

I guess that means we have 3 players who are far superior at the same point in their careers!

#blessed

 

[Throw More Waffles]

When 50 point players are being handed out 6-7~ mil contracts, this is a bad take.

If you need to resort to comparing leaf rfa contracts to the worst UFA contracts in the league, then you’d see just how bad the situation really is.

 

[Durrr]

Nylander also had 61 points in his 4th year compared to Nathan's 53. Also marner had more.

I guess that means we have 3 players who are far superior at the same point in their careers!

#blessed

I know points are not everything, but even as a gag your point isn't what you want it to be. I watch a lot of Avs games (lived out there when Nathan was drafted), Mckinnon was no where near a lock to be the player he is right now a few years ago, he struggled heavily along the way before breaking through.

 

[Durrr]

If you need to resort to comparing leaf rfa contracts to the west UFA contracts in the league, then you’d see just how bad the situation really is.

Maybe that's because you can't grasp that the UFA market is garbage? Why do we care what stage of their career a player is in when all that matters is the contribution? I'll take a 1-1.5 mil overpaid Matthews/Marner any day of the week and twice on Sunday over a Jimmy Hayes or Clarkson at 7 mil contract.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Maybe that's because you can't grasp that the UFA market is garbage? Why do we care what stage of their career a player is in when all that matters is the contribution? I'll take a 1-1.5 mil overpaid Matthews/Marner any day of the week and twice on Sunday over a Jimmy Hayes or Clarkson at 7 mil contract.

Sure, if we disregard the entire history of how contracts have worked in the nhl (and currently work for every other team), then sure... the leafs big three have good contracts.

So, to recap, in order to rationalize Dubas’s unprecedented dramatic overpayments, we
1. Have to compare his rfa contracts to the worst UFA contracts in the league
2. Have to disregard the entire history of contract negotiations in the nhl in regards to rfa vs ufa contracts.

Wow

maybe it would just be easier to admit Dubas gave out horrible contracts.

 

[Durrr]

Sure, if we disregard the entire history of how contracts have worked in the nhl (and currently work for every other team), then sure... the leafs big three have good contracts.

So, to recap, in order to rationalize Dubas’s unprecedented dramatic overpayments, we
1. Have to compare his rfa contracts to the worst UFA contracts in the league
2. Have to disregard the entire history of contract negotiations in the nhl in regards to rfa vs ufa contracts.

Wow

maybe it would just be easier to admit Dubas gave out horrible contracts.

I didn't say Dubas didn't overpay, he did. I'm saying at least he over-payed the right players, and I've been saying that from the start of this conversation.

And yes, you should disregard the entire RFA vs UFA contracts history in the NHL. It's been nothing short of a flawed system that has severely hurt the competitiveness of this league overall. Look no further to almost each team in the league lugging around a Lucic, Bobby Ryan, Kessler, Backes, Ablekator, Ladd, etc ad neaseum and realize what this has done to the league. This money should be shifted to RFA players in their primes, not to players who can't crack a top 6 but are forced to for cap reasons.

 

[Durrr]

That’s fair but Colorado also had to radically change the team in Duchene, O’Reilly, Stastny, Shattenkirk, now Barrie etc. to make the team around a better quality.

Now with him thriving and a different team dynamic, things are looking good.
It may be something that needs to be done around Matthews.

Very true, but I would argue that McKinnon also just grew up and put it together. How often to we forget that we are talking about 22 year old players?

 

[TheBigFour]

Last year marner had 73 even strength points. That just so happens to be Matthew's career high in points as well.

Marner only went for and got his money because dubas' handling of matthews' contract was so atrocious.

When a player has as many even strength points in a season as another player has total points, they deserve similar money.

Matthews has been one of best goal scorers every since he has entered nhl. only OV scores goals at higher rate than Matthews since 2016-2017.
Matthews got paid cause he scores alot goals as a centre at even strength. he's an unique player.
marner on the other hand, had a exceptional season but hasn't put himself any special cateogory.
marner is the highest paid RFA winger (in terms of money) in nhl history.
He contract is more atrocious than Matthews contract.
much more.

And now this year, marner is really struggling at 5v5 play

 

[egd27]

Dubas hasn't taken us anywhere. Using the same logic, that means we were never going anywhere with dubas as gm either.

I dont buy that.

I hope it's something minor with auston. I used to think he was 1b to McDavid. He still has the talent to be. But something is wrong

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I didn't say Dubas didn't overpay, he did. I'm saying at least he over-payed the right players, and I've been saying that from the start of this conversation.

And yes, you should disregard the entire RFA vs UFA contracts history in the NHL. It's been nothing short of a flawed system that has severely hurt the competitiveness of this league overall. Look no further to almost each team in the league lugging around a Lucic, Bobby Ryan, Kessler, Backes, Ablekator, Ladd, etc ad neaseum and realize what this has done to the league. This money should be shifted to RFA players in their primes, not to players who can't crack a top 6 but are forced to for cap reasons.

It doesn’t matter how you think contracts should be handed out. There is ample precedent (past and present) for how rfa vs ufa contracts work in the nhl. Not opinions. Facts.

GM’s hold far more leverage over rfa’s than ufa’s. It doesn’t matter that you “don’t like that”. It’s the simple truth. The cba is specifically and intentionally designed that way. To give rfa’s far less leverage. The result has (and still is) that rfa’s get worse contracts than ufa’s.

If you want to lead the rally for changing the cba, then go for it. But Dubas is operating under the CURRENT cba. The one that gives far more leverage to ufa’s.