Auston Matthews, 60 goal seasons?

[Holymakinaw]

I have zero problem with anyone saying he'll never hit 60 goals. It's a super rare feat and who knows if the stars will align and he'll do it? I think he's got some 50 goal seasons in him, and MAYBE he could hit 60 once in his career. Maybe.

But to anyone saying his goal scoring stats are a bit inflated because of the north division, etc............how come no one else in the north scored 41 goals this year? Draisaitl is a hell of a goal scorer, isn't he? McDavid's had several 40+ goal seasons and was able to top 100 points this year, so scoring was happening on his team. But they only managed 33 and 31 goals this year, in the north division. Quite a few goals behind Matthews' 41. If was "easier" to do this year, then why is that?

It's because Matthews is a legitimate 60 goal threat. It's still going to be very hard for him to do, but he's perhaps one of only a tiny handful of guys in the league that could achieve it right now.

 

[Roksta]

I have zero problem with anyone saying he'll never hit 60 goals. It's a super rare feat and who knows if the stars will align and he'll do it? I think he's got some 50 goal seasons in him, and MAYBE he could hit 60 once in his career. Maybe.

But to anyone saying his goal scoring stats are a bit inflated because of the north division, etc............how come no one else in the north scored 41 goals this year? Draisaitl is a hell of a goal scorer, isn't he? McDavid's had several 40+ goal seasons and was able to top 100 points this year, so scoring was happening on his team. But they only managed 33 and 31 goals this year, in the north division. Quite a few goals behind Matthews' 41. If was "easier" to do this year, then why is that?

It's because Matthews is a legitimate 60 goal threat. It's still going to be very hard for him to do, but he's perhaps one of only a tiny handful of guys in the league that could achieve it right now.

Or maybe because McDavid/Draisaitl are better playmakers and rely less on goalscoring for offense.... ?

 

[Holymakinaw]

Or maybe because McDavid/Draisaitl are better playmakers and rely less on goalscoring for offense.... ?

Sure, maybe. But Draisaitl topped 50 very recently, and still paced for 45 this year. Playmaking ability & all that.....he's ALSO a goal scorer. Point still stands about the "easier north" and why only Matthews got to 41 in the entire league.

 

[Dache]

Well 60 like 100 isn't a made up number. What is made up is that Leafs fans who believe Matthews can score 60 are delusional against facts to the contrary. That he hasnt hit 50 is moot. The majority of 60 goals scorers didn't hit 50 before they hit 60, and only those who hit 60 are considered and not those who only hit 50.

(Funny, because you received a like from Dache who claimed his own argument wasn't yours. That type of gotcha is particularly edifying. So thank you, Dache.)

You don't know if people (ie Leafs fans) are pretending he's hit 60. It's more delusional to claim as much as a fact. Leafs fans (esp. on the Leafs' boards) are providing optimistic opinions because of his numbers not in spite of them. And when others caution said optimism as delusional, they're doing so ignoring the nature of informed opinion and the historic company Matthews is keeping. Could that change? Sure. But the "that" referenced remains historic numbers in elite company. And basing opinions of hope as fan base on said numbers isn't delusional.

But denying said hopeful optimism and describing it as delusional is certainly shabby.

There’s so much wrong here. Who said leaf fans are delusional for thinking he can get 60? You’re just making huge posts that actually say nothing.

 

[Sypher04]

This comments feel worthless because you’re taking them at more than face value. For example you have no issue saying that the overwhelming majority of leaf fans know that pace doesn’t equal the accomplishment, but when some of those leaf fans say it does and an outside fan say it doesn’t you focus on the person that says it doesn’t even though you agree. Hell even my posts in this thread have called him the best goal scorer in the world, and saying he obviously has the talent for 60 goals just that it takes factors other than talent to get 60. And yet all I’m responded to is as if I think he’s not a very good goal scorer and a leaf hater.

I disagree that I'm taking it as more than face value, but we can agree to disagree.

As for your example, I wont answer for anything other than the arguments I put forth or partake in myself. I haven't personally supposed your position to be one that is negative. In truth, outside of your replies to me, I haven't read much of this thread since my first comment.

I still think my position is a reasonable one. The question posed in the thread is about 60 because it's a far more intriguing question than asking about 50, which just feels like a matter of time

 

[NoName]

You haven't scored 50...till you've scored 50.

He isnt a lock to do anything.

Can he? Sure. Will he? Maybe.

Get 50 first and then we can talk 60

He scored 47 in 70 a year ago and now 41 in 52. Are you seriously suggesting he wouldn’t score 3 goals 12 games or 9 goals in 30 games? Heck, it would take both happening back to back for him not to have cracked 50 in a full season.

So yeah, he is a lock to score 50 over a full non-covid shortened season if he gets a full season’s worth of games played, like I originally said. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

 

[Dache]

He scored 47 in 70 a year ago and now 41 in 52. Are you seriously suggesting he wouldn’t score 3 goals 12 games or 9 goals in 30 games? Heck, it would take both happening back to back for him not to have cracked 50 in a full season.

So yeah, he is a lock to score 50 over a full non-covid shortened season if he gets a full season’s worth of games played, like I originally said. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

I’d agree that’s it’s basically a guarantee he’d have hit 50 at least one of the last 2 years without covid. However covid did happen so those years he didn’t quite get there, maybe covid happens again next year or there’s a different reason. I’m confident he gets it but it’s not a guarantee. However, I do agree that at his current playing level with 82 games he’s an obvious lock for 50 and borderline lock for 60

 

[ITM]

There’s so much wrong here. Who said leaf fans are delusional for thinking he can get 60? You’re just making huge posts that actually say nothing.

Not so. I know what I wrote and it's sound. It's also specific.

It's also not a description of a belief left to the imagination of anything is possible so it could be true, perception is reality crowd.

I appreciate your post above though.

 

[Dache]

Not so. I know what I wrote and it's sound. It's also specific.

It's also not a description of a belief left to the imagination of anything is possible so it could be true, perception is reality crowd.

I appreciate your post above though.

Again you’re avoiding saying or answering anything. Your previous claim was that people are claiming leaf fans are delusional for saying Matthews can get 60, yet you just refuse to substantiate it at all.

 

[newfy]

Ovechkin only has 1 60 goal season. Its absolutely not safe to say that Matthews will have plural 60 goal seasons lol

 

[nturn06]

He scored 47 in 70 a year ago and now 41 in 52. Are you seriously suggesting he wouldn’t score 3 goals 12 games or 9 goals in 30 games? Heck, it would take both happening back to back for him not to have cracked 50 in a full season.

So yeah, he is a lock to score 50 over a full non-covid shortened season if he gets a full season’s worth of games played, like I originally said. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

While I agree that he would had likely hit 50 in normal situations, I do not think that the Leafs would had played 86 regular season games this season even if there was no COVID. Somehow everyone ignores the fact that he scored 41 in 56 team games...

 

[Dache]

While I agree that he would had likely hit 50 in normal situations, I do not think that the Leafs would had played 86 regular season games this season even if there was no COVID. Somehow everyone ignores the fact that he scored 41 in 56 team games...

To be fair that’s still good enough for 60, pace wise

 

[NoName]

While I agree that he would had likely hit 50 in normal situations, I do not think that the Leafs would had played 86 regular season games this season even if there was no COVID. Somehow everyone ignores the fact that he scored 41 in 56 team games...

No it wasn’t ignored. The key point I raised in two posts now is “if he gets a full season worth of games, he is a lock for 50 goals”. He is at a 49 goal per 82 game pace for his career, so it is obvious that the only reason he hasn’t accomplished it by now as he is entering his prime has been missing a lot of games every season both due to Covid and injury. He hasn’t had the opportunity to play more then 70 games per season since he was a rookie; obviously that is going to have a big impact on his per-season totals.

And as an aside even if we only consider the games lost due to Covid and not injury, then he is still a very safe bet to have cracked 50 goals at least once over the past two years.

 

[RavenGuard]

He scored 47 in 70 a year ago and now 41 in 52. Are you seriously suggesting he wouldn’t score 3 goals 12 games or 9 goals in 30 games? Heck, it would take both happening back to back for him not to have cracked 50 in a full season.

So yeah, he is a lock to score 50 over a full non-covid shortened season if he gets a full season’s worth of games played, like I originally said. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

You aren't a lock to score 50 until you've actually done it. Not sure what's so tough for you guys to understand about this.

 

[Thenameless]

Matthews is most likely going to be the next Mike Bossy.....
.

Bossy could do it in the playoffs too.

 

[Jaytee]

Matthews is no doubt the best goal scorer in the NHL right now. If anyone is going to score 60 goals, it's him.

I'm just not 100% convinced that, with the current style of play and level of goaltender talent, anyone will get there, except perhaps during a season where everything goes right for them. If this happens, it'll be Matthews.

Scoring 60 goals in today's NHL is sort of equivalent to scoring 80 goals back in the '80s - it can happen (Matthews, Gretzky), but it won't happen regularly or reliably.

You want regular 60 goal seasons by anybody? Make the ice surface wider and the goalie pads narrower.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Matthews is no doubt the best goal scorer in the NHL right now. If anyone is going to score 60 goals, it's him.

I'm just not 100% convinced that, with the current style of play and level of goaltender talent, anyone will get there, except perhaps during a season where everything goes right for them. If this happens, it'll be Matthews.

Scoring 60 goals in today's NHL is sort of equivalent to scoring 80 goals back in the '80s - it can happen (Matthews, Gretzky), but it won't happen regularly or reliably.

You want regular 60 goal seasons by anybody? Make the ice surface wider and the goalie pads narrower.

I think this is fair. 60 goals is a tall order but if anyone can do it Matthews can.

 

[BlueAzN]

One would swear HF is filled with posters who were dunked on by Matthews at the some point in their lives.

You should've seen some of the clowns who ridiculed me when I said Matthews>Eichel. A lot of people in this board are complete buffoons who can't even tell you what edge work is.

 

[Atomos2]

You aren't a lock to score 50 until you've actually done it. Not sure what's so tough for you guys to understand about this.

Maybe it's because you are confused. First off you're not a lock to score 50 even after you've done it once or several times.

But there is an expectation that 50 is an easily attainable goal for Matthews given what he has accomplished over the past 2 season.

That's what you're failing to understand even with your twisted logic of using absolutes without context in future projections, which imo, has shown to be amateurish. It's like using +/- to assess defensive ability.

 

[Dache]

Maybe it's because you are confused. First off you're not a lock to score 50 even after you've done it once or several times.

But there is an expectation that 50 is an easily attainable goal for Matthews given what he has accomplished over the past 2 season.

That's what you're failing to understand even with your twisted logic of using absolutes without context in future projections, which imo, has shown to be amateurish. It's like using +/- to assess defensive ability.

I’m starting to think this is where all the bickering is coming from. Many fans are saying that what Matthews has accomplished as well as scoring 50 or 60, isn’t easy, or easily attainable. It’s takes a hell of a season to do these things. And shouldn’t be the expectation of anyone even Matthews.

 

[GOilers88]

Sure, maybe. But Draisaitl topped 50 very recently, and still paced for 45 this year. Playmaking ability & all that.....he's ALSO a goal scorer. Point still stands about the "easier north" and why only Matthews got to 41 in the entire league.

For the same reasons people say McDavid only did what he did because of stat padding in a weak division.

They're idiots. Props to AM, dude is a legit sniper and I hope he doesn't wind up like Stamkos.

 

[NoName]

You aren't a lock to score 50 until you've actually done it. Not sure what's so tough for you guys to understand about this.

That is nonsense. It is very easy to make a claim about an 82 game pace because we can look at per 82 game segments, and Matthews has scored 50 goals per 82 games before when combining games played across multiple seasons; heck he has a 49 goals per 82 game pace for his entire career. Ignoring this is just willful ignorance.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Matthews is no doubt the best goal scorer in the NHL right now. If anyone is going to score 60 goals, it's him.

I'm just not 100% convinced that, with the current style of play and level of goaltender talent, anyone will get there, except perhaps during a season where everything goes right for them. If this happens, it'll be Matthews.

Scoring 60 goals in today's NHL is sort of equivalent to scoring 80 goals back in the '80s - it can happen (Matthews, Gretzky), but it won't happen regularly or reliably.

You want regular 60 goal seasons by anybody? Make the ice surface wider and the goalie pads narrower.

Make the nets bigger.

 

[93LEAFS]

He'll go as far as Marner will take him

He scored 40 and finished 2nd in league scoring as a 19 year old never playing with Marner (not even on the PP).

 

[93LEAFS]

That is nonsense. It is very easy to make a claim about an 82 game pace because we can look at per 82 game segments, and Matthews has scored 50 goals per 82 games before when combining games played across multiple seasons; heck he has a 49 goals per 82 game pace for his entire career. Ignoring this is just willful ignorance.

One thing to say injuries. But, the only reason he didn't hit 50 the last 2 seasons was because of something called a global pandemic. In the last 2 seasons, he scored at a 57 goal pace even when measuring his total from this year at over 56 instead of 52 games.