ATD2020 Draft Thread I

[The Macho King]

I don't see it. Richard was a major superstar at a level never attained by Bourque. Qui plus est, Rocket have great longevity himself, so Bourque cannot count on his longevity to save him as it usually does in those kind of comparisons.

Goals get fans out of their seats - that's why the forward bias exists. That's why we have mediocre forwards in the HHOF while keeping very high standards for goalies and dmen.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Goals get fans out of their seats - that's why the forward bias exists. That's why we have mediocre forwards in the HHOF while keeping very high standards for goalies and dmen.

Is Phil Housley an undrafted?

 

[Habsfan18]

I still think Orr holds that distinction while also being my best player ever, but Mario was the most naturally gifted hockey player I've ever seen. At his size, what he was able to do skating and skill wise was just not fair.

I do absolutely think had he not had such a terrible time with cancer, plus a really debilitating back by the early 90's, he'd have mirrored a lot of Gretzky's totals. His per game #'s are right there in a lot of categories.

I’ll always be a bit biased when it comes to Mario. He is and has always been my father’s favorite player. He has been a Pens fan since the early 80’s and I grew up in the early 90’s around Mario memorabilia while watching numerous Lemieux and Penguins related VHS tapes. I loved him because my dad did/does. But now that I’m “grown up” and fully appreciate and research the history of the game, I love him because of how damn special of a player he truly was. It’s surprising I didn’t grow up a Pens fan, haha!

 

[Habsfan18]

I don't see it. Richard was a major superstar at a level never attained by Bourque. Qui plus est, Rocket have great longevity himself, so Bourque cannot count on his longevity to save him as it usually does in those kind of comparisons.

Plus there is a significant playoffs advantage for Richard.

If I’m in a do-or-die type of situation and I absolutely NEED a goal for my team to win or stay alive, and I’m offered any one player in hockey history to have the puck on his stick for my team, I’m taking Maurice Richard without hesitation.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'm in a bit of conundrum here. I don't know who I want, and I don't know if @Hawkey Town 18 is still online, and I need to go to sleep soon.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Is Shitf*** an undrafted?

Y'all are drafting nearly 1000 players. I'm pretty sure undrafted will be drafted.

[The profanity filter amuses me...]

 

[VanIslander]

... Rocket have great longevity himself, so Bourque cannot count on his longevity to save him as it usually does in those kind of comparisons.

Bourque
13 1st team all stars
6 2nd team all stars

Richard
8 1st team all stars
6 2nd team all stars

That's 19 vs. 14.

Moreover, Bourque was a 1st team all star Norris trophy first runner up at ages 35 and 40 whereas Richard got his last accolade at age 35, a 2nd team selection.

So, longevity CLEARLY still is significantly more for Bourque.

But, yeah, Richard was on a dynasty team, and Bourque played 90% of his long career with no more than one or two HHOFers in his line-up.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Bourque
13 1st team all stars
6 2nd team all stars

Richard
8 1st team all stars
6 2nd team all stars

Bourque a 1st team all star Norris trophy first runner up at ages 35 and 40.

Richard got his last acvolade at age 35, a 2nd team selection.

Longevity CLEARLY still is significantly more for Bourque.

But, yeah, Richard was on a dynasty team, and Bourque played 90% of his long career with no more than obe or two HHOFers in his line-up.

Despite all this, it's still clear that Richard was a more significant player than Bourque in the history of the game. Richard had a direct rivalry with Gordie Howe, and even if Howe clearly won out in the end, I don't recall Bourque ever being put in the same sentence as Gretzky or Lemieux when they were all peaking at the same time. Richard was thus a higher level player than Bourque, and the gap in longevity cannot make up for that (and for the huuuuuge playoff gap).

See Scotty Bowman's ranking of Richard and Howe to get a sense of where they stood next to each other in people's eyes at the time.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

I'm in a bit of conundrum here. I don't know who I want, and I don't know if @Hawkey Town 18 is still online, and I need to go to sleep soon.

Well... you only need a two-deep list-- and if you want to pass it to me, I'll be here for another two hours. If HT18 shows and drafts, I can listpick for ya. [I also think there's something to be said for passing a list to a non-competitor. I obtain no advantage from an insight into your thought process.]

If HT18 doesn't show by c. 2am Eastern, I'll turn in too- and you can make your pick yourself- in the morning light. You're on a 24 hour clock now, so no lasting harm done.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Well... you only need a two-deep list-- and if you want to pass it to me, I'll be here for another two hours. If HT18 shows and drafts, I can listpick for ya. [I also think there's something to be said for passing a list to a non-competitor. I obtain no advantage from an insight into your thought process.]

If HT18 doesn't show by c. 2am Eastern, I'll turn in too- and you can make your pick yourself- in the morning light. You're on a 24 hour clock now, so no lasting harm done.

Yeah I would do that if only I had such a list, which I don't.

I think I'm gonna call it a night and make my pick first thing in the morning. I doubt much is lost, as most people after me are probably sleeping too. If this was EST morning I'd force myself to leave a list.

Besides, the clock hasn't started yet.

I do appreciate the offer though.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Just woke up. The options for me here are different than I was expecting, and I’m heading out to a midnight movie. I’ll pick tomorrow.

PS: @ImporterExporter had some undrafteds in his earlier post about Beliveau

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Actually nevermind, gonna try something different (for me)...

Chicago selects the best player available, Bobby Hull, LW

 

[VanIslander]

Definitely BPA.

A 5th overall candidate.

Nice.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Bourque
13 1st team all stars
6 2nd team all stars

Richard
8 1st team all stars
6 2nd team all stars

That's 19 vs. 14.

Moreover, Bourque was a 1st team all star Norris trophy first runner up at ages 35 and 40 whereas Richard got his last accolade at age 35, a 2nd team selection.

So, longevity CLEARLY still is significantly more for Bourque.

But, yeah, Richard was on a dynasty team, and Bourque played 90% of his long career with no more than one or two HHOFers in his line-up.

one thing to keep in mind is 4 Ds get named to the AST compared to 2 for the other positions. A fairer comparison would be how many of those 1st teams were when bourque got the most votes vs 2nd most votes. Going off purely on memory, i think boyrque has around 5-7 “true” 1st AST.

 

[VanIslander]

There are also more defensemen than right wingers (something we will be rudely aware of in a 40-team (240 starting dmen!) draft. Yikes!

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I’ve never built a team with Maurice Richard before, and I’m excited to now. I see him as a guy that should fit most centres, is a real game breaker, and does what a winger is supposed to do on a well coached team even if he’s nowhere near a defensive difference maker.

When I had him, I found him surprisingly easy to build around him... For a winger, that is.

I mean, starting with a winger is always a bit of a challenge...

 

[Namba 17]

I’ve never built a team with Maurice Richard before, and I’m excited to now. I see him as a guy that should fit most centres, is a real game breaker, and does what a winger is supposed to do on a well coached team even if he’s nowhere near a defensive difference maker.

This is the option between whom and Bourque I was.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Do people like that the OP is on every page?

 

[BenchBrawl]

Do people like that the OP is on every page?

Yes for now, because it's only two rounds long, but it will become heavy when the list gets longer.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Actually nevermind, gonna try something different (for me)...

Chicago selects the best player available, Bobby Hull, LW

This is the worst possible scenario. As I was falling asleep and pondering who I was going to pick in the morning, I decided to go with Bobby Hull who has been a little bit forgotten at the ATD level.

Losing Denis Potvin really hurt now. There are fine players left, but I had them in the past...

I need to think. Will entertain swap offers.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Do people like that the OP is on every page?

It's a nice addition. Saves you from having to open up another window to view the picks.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I really freaking hate my spot.

 

[VanIslander]

Will entertain swap offers.

TheDevilMadeMe would love the draft position.

PM him.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'll just take Sidney Crosby, C.

He brings elite offense with a decent all-around game and all-time great leadership.

Not the end-all be-all, but his Hart record is now almost exactly the same as Béliveau:

Crosby: 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 5, 6
Jean B.: 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4

I had him in the past, like most players in this range, but he was a 2nd rounder back then, so not exactly the same player. To think I had a Crosby-Howe duo on my 1st line in ATD2016.

 

[BenchBrawl]

If I'm lucky the draft will last long enough to reach the 2020 NHL playoffs and Crosby adds a nice run to his body of work.