ATD Chat Thread XVIII

[Elvis P]

... - The quotation itself may have come from a politician. It looks like there isn't actually a record of Disraeli saying that. If Disraeli did in fact coin the phrase, it's easy to see how it could be weaponized against his opponents in the same ignorant, dismissive fashion most use it today. But we don't know that, or what its original context is.

If you're not a Professor, you should be. I agree with you. The problem is that cliche's and rhetoric are powerful weapons and people don't know what arguments, logic and Philosophy are so they dismiss them. Hopefully I won't use them in this post. I'm not kidding. If I think about or express my opinion, I'm being unphilosophical. No one can have a philosophy of life, because that's not what Philosophy is. If there's a mandate or law about a safety issue, no one has the choice/right to disobey, because it's not a choice issue, it's a safety issue that affects public health. If I said he was the best chess player for 10 years and should have won 2 player of the year awards, they would use rhetoric to attack my use of the word "should" to try to prove me wrong. It's actually easier to win a title in a larger chess tournament rather than only the top 16 players in the world due to quality of opponents and strength of schedule, but the opposite sounds good so people choose the opposite.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

"We will begin migrating and updating the software at approximately 12AM ET Sunday 10-17-2021 (9PM PT Saturday 10-16-2021) Although the site will remain up you can assume content posted after that time will be lost. We are not anticipating downtime. Search will have to be indexed on the new platform so it's not going to work properly for at least a day. Addons like Sportsbook, Media Gallery, and Articles will take some time to be fully configured but will be functional. The new server cluster provides the resources we need to avoid disruptions with heavy traffic. There will be a new bookmark system, but existing ones will not be carried over. If you want to keep them you need copy them. Light and dark styles will be provided. Emojis and push notifications will be supported and we expect to add a progressive web app. As always there will be some suffering."

@seventieslord @TheDevilMadeMe @Theokritos

Should we be worried about losing any info/data here?

I don't trust the people who run the servers at all after last time. But this seems different. That was a change from a long obsolete software that had been held together by hacks to a more modern software. This seems to be more of an update within the same software.

But i'm also not a mod anymore, so I have no inside info.

 

[sr edler]

As an undergraduate, one of the texts we had to read was: "How to lie with statistics".

Yeah, I'm not a big math guy at all, I think it's pretty boring in the grander scheme of things, but I remember one of the first courses/chapters even on high school level I participated in brought up the fact how you need to be wary about how easy it is to mislead with statistics. It's really commonly known, in the field, from what I understand. If you want to bullshit with statistics, for whatever reason, the opportunity is definitely there to grab, depending on the circumstances.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I was recently playing an old EA Sports NHL game and I was curious about a play that happened.

My opponent took a penalty, and I pulled my goalie for the extra attacker. Gordie Howe took a slapshot from the point, but it took a weird bounce and I scored into my own (empty) net. Otherwise, my goalie stopped every shot he faced in 59+ minutes.

First question - in this situation, does the goalie get credit for a shutout? I think the answer is no, but I couldn't tell if there's a specific rule for this.

Second question - has this ever happened in real life? Has a team given up an empty-net goal in a game (presumably on a delayed penalty), where the goalie otherwise stopped everything he faced?

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I was recently playing an old EA Sports NHL game and I was curious about a play that happened.

My opponent took a penalty, and I pulled my goalie for the extra attacker. Gordie Howe took a slapshot from the point, but it took a weird bounce and I scored into my own (empty) net. Otherwise, my goalie stopped every shot he faced in 59+ minutes.

First question - in this situation, does the goalie get credit for a shutout? I think the answer is no, but I couldn't tell if there's a specific rule for this.

Second question - has this ever happened in real life? Has a team given up an empty-net goal in a game (presumably on a delayed penalty), where the goalie otherwise stopped everything he faced?

If the other team had scored themselves into your empty net then I would say no for sure. It's the same as if there was a goalie change in the game and the first goalie had a shutout and then the replacement goalie let a goal in.

BUT, what if the goal that was scored wasn't even a shot on net? Is a shutout when a team allows zero goals or when all shots are saved?

Also, if you shoot on your own goal does it count as a shot on goal for the other team?

 

[sr edler]

No one can have a philosophy of life, because that's not what Philosophy is.

Speaking of philosophy, did you know the American philosopher John Searle once asked French postmodernist Michel Foucault why he wrote such incomprehensible books, and according to Searle Foucault told him "in France, you gotta have ten percent incomprehensible, otherwise people won’t think it’s deep–they won’t think you’re a profound thinker."

I just came across that quote, but I think it's brilliant, because if it's true that Foucault said this (which it probably is), then it kinda confirms what I've already long suspected about various historical characters (not that it really needs that much tangible confirmation).

One of my favorite clips of all time, by the way, is Orson Welles on some talkshow talking about cold reading, which is a form of bullshitting technique used by fortune-tellers. But in this clip he also goes into self-deception, which happens to haunt or catch up to a fair number of these con artists.

So I think in general, while evaluating characters within the broader philosophical reign, you'll always kinda have to guard yourself with the two sided likelihood of deception & self-deception.

 

[VanIslander]

In terms of American philosophy, SIMPLICITY & CLARITY are key. The doctrine of clear ideas by C.S.Peirce is the foundation of philosophy in the American pragmatic tradition. I took an undergraduate and graduate program in the subject. (I have never fully appreciated French philosophers: their density is less awesome and more annoying.)

 

[Sanf]

I was recently playing an old EA Sports NHL game and I was curious about a play that happened.

My opponent took a penalty, and I pulled my goalie for the extra attacker. Gordie Howe took a slapshot from the point, but it took a weird bounce and I scored into my own (empty) net. Otherwise, my goalie stopped every shot he faced in 59+ minutes.

First question - in this situation, does the goalie get credit for a shutout? I think the answer is no, but I couldn't tell if there's a specific rule for this.

Second question - has this ever happened in real life? Has a team given up an empty-net goal in a game (presumably on a delayed penalty), where the goalie otherwise stopped everything he faced?

Not that long ago. Don´t know other times.

Record Journal November 12 2006
With Hartford holding a 2-0 advantage midway through the final period, Wolf Pack goaltender Al Montoya skated to the bench for a sixth attacker on a delayed penalty against Bridgeport defenseman Drew Fata. The younger brother of former Wolf Pack speedster Rico Fata swiped his stick at puck carrier Greg Moore near center ice, sending the black rubber disc in the other direction, right into open net. The own goal not only ruined Montoya´s bid for a third career AHL shutout but also changed momentum 9:29 remaining...
...
Asked if he’d seen anything like that before, Montoya responded: “Never. I’ve been in the other net where the team ( with the extra attacker) tries to get it to a defenseman, the defenseman misses it and it goes in the net. But I’ve never seen that before.” “I know I’ve never seen it before,” said Moore. “Obviously, I felt bad for Al. It cost him his shutout. I’m just glad we held on to win.”

 

[seventieslord]

If the other team had scored themselves into your empty net then I would say no for sure. It's the same as if there was a goalie change in the game and the first goalie had a shutout and then the replacement goalie let a goal in.

BUT, what if the goal that was scored wasn't even a shot on net? Is a shutout when a team allows zero goals or when all shots are saved?

Also, if you shoot on your own goal does it count as a shot on goal for the other team?

Maybe a shutout for the goalie, but not for the team?

 

[tinyzombies]

In terms of American philosophy, SIMPLICITY & CLARITY are key. The doctrine of clear ideas by C.S.Peirce is the foundation of philosophy in the American pragmatic tradition. I took an undergraduate and graduate program in the subject. (I have never fully appreciated French philosophers: their density is less awesome and more annoying.)

Sounds great for those in power, for those who are oppressed and erased from history, not so much.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Hello.

As I have absolutely NO doubt that my workplace will give me a dickover upon my return from vacation, I thought I'd post my next two picks (and tease my third) in OPPF-ATD:

1.

Spoiler

The pick that I NEEDED to make in order to be competitive in this season's ATD: Clint Benedict, G- Ottawa.

2.

Spoiler

The back-up Goaltender that can't be stopped- Hugh Lehman, G- Pre-NHL.

3.

Spoiler

A Ranger-to-be-named-later. Hopefully, the worst of the workplace f***ness will be over by the time this becomes relevant!

 

[VanIslander]

Dang! Someone just liked a post i supposedly made in 2016.

Don't you love it when someone appreciates something you did long ago?

Doughty and Ekblad in terms of skill but not toughness... I've seen Fetisov in his Soviet days (my teenage years) and he played both the left and right side equally awesome! There's no one in the game today as good as he was. Guys like Weber, Subban, Karlsson, Burns Chara, Letang, etc. have their strengths, but also their weaknesses. They aren't the all-around solid talent he was. Guys like Keith and Pietrangelo just pale in comparison.

6'1 220 lbs. Viacheslav Fetisov, the 9-time IIHF all-star (winning the world championship gold medal seven of those times, five times as tourney best defenseman), who was a Canada Cup all-star, three-time Olympic tourney leader in blueline scoring (1980, 1984, 1988), the longtime captain of the national team, not to mention, nine times #1 in Soviet blueline scoring (1978-1988), before being the first Soviet player to make it in the NHL, winning a couple of Stanley Cups and playing in a couple of all-star games, retiring on the IIHF centennial all-star team.

... their dynamo and policeman. He was a player with lots of muscle, a guy who could play 35 minutes a game.

You look at that (Viachislav Fetisov), and if you weren’t behind 5-1, you would want to stand up a cheer. Or maybe cry in envy.

"He was always a tough competitor because he had great size, he had great vision of the ice and he always made solid plays... very, very seldom did you ever see him make a bad play and he was a guy that was a lot like Denis Potvin in that he could kind of do it all."

Viacheslav Fetisov, the Soviet Union’s premier defenseman and generally regarded by hockey people everywhere as the world’s best defenseman.

Yesterday, a tremendous young Russian defenseman named Vyachesav Fetisov waited patiently for Gretzky to finish his bluff, then blithely skated off with the puck. Fetisov was a tower of strength all day, a fact that stunned us Canadians who had been contemptuous until now of Russian defensemen.

Viacheslav Fetisov, 24, is the star of the Soviet defense and the team captain for the tour. He stands 6-1 and 198, and is sometimes called “the Bobby Orr of Europeâ€. Edmonton’s Wayne Gretzky says Fetisov is the best defensemen he has ever played against.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

And in the 21st Round of the 2021 OPPF-draft, The Hammond Organ Grinders peruse the buffet of Ranger Wingers and select:

Spoiler

We have three choices:
1)

Spoiler

BreadMan (Panarin)
2) BroadwayMan (Gilbert)

Or BLUE-COLLAR MAN


We'll take the one who'll fit in better in our Rust Belt home.
Hammond selects Cecil Dillon, RW- New York Rangers

Like Bathgate and Delvecchio, he never misses games. Hard to overstate how much value that adds, in a 20-man roster paradigm. He's also the option that provides the best defensive chops. I'll be delighted to add a little more of that on the Organ Grinders' R-side.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

502-error/504-error/520-error.

Site is all kinds of FUBAR right now.

I'll see everyone in the morning...

Update:

Obviously the migration failed and we'll need to reschedule. Everything looked perfect until it came time to update the DNS and it wouldn't update. We need to figure out what caused it. It's disappointing to start the season 0-3. Thanks for your patience.

 

[tinyzombies]

Hawkey and Claude are the only 2 picks left and they both have backups.

So I'll drop Otto an take Alec Connell, Maroons.

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

Hawkey and Claude are the only 2 picks left and they both have backups.

So I'll drop Otto an take Alec Connell, Maroons.

Oh, dear...

What possible case is there for considering Connell a Maroon?!?

 

[BraveCanadian]

I don't trust the people who run the servers at all after last time. But this seems different. That was a change from a long obsolete software that had been held together by hacks to a more modern software. This seems to be more of an update within the same software.

But i'm also not a mod anymore, so I have no inside info.

But then they revert because they couldn't update the DNS which has nothing to do with a software update so... cross your fingers everyone, the man behind the curtain doesn't know what they are doing!

 

[tinyzombies]

Oh, dear...

What possible case is there for considering Connell a Maroon?!?

cuz i need him to be? lol

 

[Theokritos]

Since I know we have a few PCHA fans around here: Starting tomorrow, Alan L. MacLeod is going to present his new book Capitals, Aristocrats, and Cougars: Victoria's Hockey Professionals, 1911–1926 on HOH.

 

[VanIslander]

I am back.

(Had to wait the 365-day period
for username changes that
i hadn't known about.)

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Hawkey and Claude are the only 2 picks left and they both have backups.

So I'll drop Otto an take Alec Connell, Maroons.

Yeah sorry but Connell is a Senator.
Also as per TDMM, add/drop starts Sunday 8pm EST

 

[VanIslander]

Someone please start a "2021 OPPF Line-Up Review / Assassination" Thread.

I cannot start a thread, cannot like, etc because I said this summer bad things i believe but shouldn't have. I accept the longterm punishment, some of which ends early next month.

Hope we all get everything on all-cylinders soon!

 

[BenchBrawl]

Someone please start a "2021 OPPF Line-Up Review / Assassination" Thread.

I cannot start a thread, cannot like, etc because I said this summer bad things i believe but shouldn't have. I accept the longterm punishment, some of which ends early next month.

Hope we all get everything on all-cylinders soon!

OPPF2021 Assassinations Thread

 

[ChiTownPhilly]

@TheDevilMadeMe please switch my 1st & 2nd rounders on the op (Fetisov was not my first, but my second rounder).

The person to whom you're making this appeal is also the author of this subtlety...

207 VanIslander - Laval Rocket - John Madden, C [emphasis mine] (NJ)

Given what we know, I'm not inclined to think that your request to "memory-hole" your draft order is going to find a receptive audience.

 

[VanIslander]

New York Times, Dec 12th 2000, his sophomore year:

"Madden scored twice tonight to help the Devils end a two-game losing streak with a 4-0 victory over the Atlanta Thrashers before 10,014 at Continental Arena.
''Wherever they want me to play, I'll play,'' said Madden, a center who was moved to left wing on Bobby Holik's line..." (emphasis mine).

Madden has been listed as C/LW and ATD lined up at LW multiple times before.