ATD Chat Thread XVII

[Theokritos]

Canadian player Stan Obodiac who toured Europe with the Lethbridge Maple Leafs in 1951 on the difference between Canada and Europe:

 

[Johnny Engine]

St. John's, NL to Lisbon, Portugal: 3,627 km

Western conference teams that are closer to St. John's: Chicago, Nashville, St. Louis, Minnesota, Winnipeg
Western conference teams that are further from St. John's: Dallas, Edmonton, Colorado, Calgary, Arizona, Vegas, Vancouver, Seattle, Anaheim, Los Angeles, San Jose

So yes, I am closer to mainland Portugal than most of the Western conference, by a score of 10+Seattle to 5.
If I was talking about Ponta Delgado, Azores, every single Western conference team is further away, along with Carolina, Tampa, Florida, and Columbus.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Now I can't think of St. John's without thinking of that crazy ass snowstorm from last winter.

 

[VanIslander]

I am in South Korea, which is surprisingly a little closer to Oslo, Norway than it is to Vancouver, Canada, with both Oslo & Vancouver closer to here than Sydney, Australia is!

The East-West distance seems farther but really the North-South divide is greater. Australia really is away from it all!

I flew to Auckland, New Zealand for a month, thinking I'd visit there while being in East Asia, not realizing I could have just as well gone to Barcelona, Spain in terms of distance!

I love maps and have been reading them my whole life. But the scale on the world map never seemed such.

 

[VanIslander]

Fun fact:

The cities of both Stanley Cup finalists this year are located further south than Casablanca, Morocco, Africa.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Now I can't think of St. John's without thinking of that crazy ass snowstorm from last winter.

I was extremely practiced at staying home by the time lockdown hit, that's for sure.

COVID has never forced me to ski to work, though.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Sorry to dump this here, but I'd never seen it before I can't find the thread of these instances, however minor...

September 25, 1963: The NHL’s Detroit Red Wings and American Hockey League’s Pittsburgh Hornets play an exhibition game as a result of each club’s close ties to the Johnstown Jets organization. Hall of Famer Gordie Howe scores three goals and has two assists in an 8-1 Red Wings victory. The legendary Howe even played goaltender in the final minute in relief of another Hall of Famer, Terry Sawchuk.

War Memorial anniversary: Tracking 70 years of great hockey moments at Johnstown arena

 

[Habsfan18]

I’m on cloud nine right now, fellas!

I just spoke with Dave Stubbs and there may be plans in the works to write a story on me and my collection for NHL.com. How freakin cool would that be!

 

[ImporterExporter]

I’m on cloud nine right now, fellas!

I just spoke with Dave Stubbs and there may be plans in the works to write a story on me and my collection for NHL.com. How freakin cool would that be!

This is great! I hope they come through for you. Your collection is massive and unlike many people who simply have unlimited money to throw around at stuff like that, you actually care and cherish about the hockey history.

Keep us posted bud!

 

[Habsfan18]

This is great! I hope they come through for you. Your collection is massive and unlike many people who simply have unlimited money to throw around at stuff like that, you actually care and cherish about the hockey history.

Keep us posted bud!

Thank you buddy, I appreciate that!

Dave is hoping to possibly set aside some time to chat in the coming weeks before Christmas about my collection. Here’s to hoping it works out! I’d be thrilled and it would be something my son would find really neat as he gets older.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I recently figured out how to get EA Sports NHL 2002 to play on my computer (Windows 10). It's my second favourite game in that franchise, after 2004 (which I can't get to work on more recent computers).

It's an old game - I was taken aback when I saw pictures of the World Trade Centre on the New York skyline.

I created an all-time roster and wanted to see if anything jumps out as being egregiously wrong. Here are the defensemen:

First general concept - I didn't want to waste time debating if a player is a 96 vs 97 in a category, so for simplicity, everything was done in multiples of five.

Second general concept - the peaks are based on each player's prime, which I'm loosely defining as best five seasons.

The results look about right (including Potvin having the second-highest rating after Orr). I had to manipulate a few of the rankings to get more accurate overall player ratings (hence Orr getting 100 for faceoffs and everyone else getting 50) but overall the components look pretty good here.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Here's the same thing for forwards:

I can't get all the columns to export. Lemieux is almost a full point ahead of Howe based on what's presented here, but there's a wide difference in their injury ratings, which gives them the same rating overall.

I cheated a bit and put Messier as LW (where he started his career, although his best years were as a centre). His overall rating still seems a point too high.

I struggled with what to do for Crosby. If you look at what he actually accomplished, this looks about right. Maybe I could have pushed him higher and given him an 89 or even 90, just with a high likelihood for injuries.

 

[MadArcand]

I really hate the "new" (2000s) NHL ratings scale... is 60 like minimum or something? Gretzky with 75 aggressiveness seems beyond absurd.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I really hate the "new" (2000s) NHL ratings scale... is 60 like minimum or something? Gretzky with 75 aggressiveness seems beyond absurd.

The problem is the player ratings are already really inflated. In NHL 2002, the top two skaters (Lemieux and Sakic) are rated 94, then Forsberg at 93, and Fedorov and Jagr at 92. I'm trying to re-create peak Grezky and Orr, and they're no better than Joe Sakic after his 2001 season (a great season, of course, but not even close to the same level). Lemieux at age 35 gets a higher rating than Lemieux at age 23 or 27. And that's after already inflating everyone's ratings in several of the categories.

By the time you get to players like peak Jagr, Ovechkin and Beliveau, they get the same ratings as Tony Amonte, Jeff O'Neill, Martin Straka, Peter Bondra, and an aging Theo Fleury.

That's similar (and usually even worse) in other years. In NHL 2000, there were multiple skaters rated 96+ (Jagr, Kariya, Selanne 100; Sakic, Forsberg, LeClair 99; Lindros, Yashin, MacInnis 97; Bure, Modano, Fleury, Lidstrom, Ozolinsh 96). In 2003, you had the same thing (Sakic, Lidstrom 98; Thornton, Sundin, Naslund, Bertuzzi, Blake 97; Iginla, Modano, Tkachuk 96). 2004 wasn't quite as bad but still not a lot of room to go up (Forsberg 97; Thornton, Fedorov, Bertuzzi 94; Lidstrom, Iginla, Modano, Karyia 93 etc).

Ideally you'd have peak Gretzky at 99. Then maybe peak Lafleur, Jagr, Ovechkin etc around 90-92. Then a strong Hart winner (say Kane 2016 or Malkin 2012) in the high 80's, and an average Hart winner (say Hall 2018 or Perry 2011) around 85. Then star players in the low 80's, second liners in the mid to high seventies, etc.

(The other point is the ratings are usually based on definable talents - ie speed, checking, shot power, endurance, etc. Something like "hockey IQ" isn't captured. So someone like Gretzky is at a disadvantage because his ratings, which are largely based on physical/tangible skills, wouldn't be extraordinary, and his biggest strength - hockey sense - isn't even captured there).

Obviously these games were made a long time ago and surely they didn't count on somebody trying to create an all-time roster in them (particularly 15-20 years down the road). So the ratings inflation is frustrating - but I can't exactly complain that I didn't get my money's worth with these games.

(In case anyone's wondering why I'm playing such old versions, I don't have any type of gaming consoles and they stopped making these games for computers close to 15 years ago).

 

[MadArcand]

(In case anyone's wondering why I'm playing such old versions, I don't have any type of gaming consoles and they stopped making these games for computers close to 15 years ago).

Welcome to my world. 2009 is the last NHL game as far as I'm concerned. The fact that even by then they just used TWO BYTES to record something like +/- (so at +256 your +/- wraps around into -256) is something that never ceased to infuriate me, though.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

Which team would win a 7 game series and why? Each team has 4 average (AVG) players.

Team A

Mark Messier - Wayne Gretzky - Teemu Selanne
AVG - Sidney Crosby - Brett Hull
AVG - Steve Yzerman - Patrick Kane
AVG - Evgeni Malkin - Eric Lindros

Nicklas Lidstrom - Paul Coffey
Scott Stevens - Sergei Fedorov
Brian Leetch - AVG

Patrick Roy
Martin Brodeur

Team B

Alex Ovechkin- Mario Lemieux - Jaromir Jagr
AVG- Joe Sakic - Jari Kurri
AVG- Peter Forsberg - Martin St. Louis
AVG - Joe Thornton - AVG

Ray Bourque - Chris Chelios
Chris Pronger - Al MacInnis
Zdeno Chara - Duncan Keith

Dominik Hasek
Ed Belfour​

 

[MadArcand]

B, defense is much superior to A and more than negates any forward inferiority (Gs are basically a wash).

 

[VanIslander]

It's a liability when the other team has the puck for Hull or Malkin to be on the ice when either Coffey or Leetch is.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Team B because of the D, but I do see more problems with Team B's forwards. Absolutely no defense on that 1st line, at least Team A has Messier. Forsberg - St. Louis doesn't make a lot of sense as they are both primarily playmakers, I'd switch Kurri and St. Louis.

Team A's 2nd unit PK Dmen will be a problem against this level of competition.

Also, confused why each team didn't use the backup goaltender position to burn one of the Average players.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

...Also, confused why each team didn't use the backup goaltender position to burn one of the Average players.

Good point. 1. I was trying to use more recent players from the top 100. 2. I didn't think of it.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

"Remember Pro Beach Hockey? Inside stories of its ramps, two-point goals and sandy inline skates

Pro Beach Hockey. Even the name itself is jarring, and the words don't sound like they belong together. But for three seasons from 1998 to 2000, Pro Beach Hockey (PBH) was very real, and it was glorious. It has now been 20 years since the innovative inline hockey league last overtook Huntington Beach, California. It might be a bit of a relic by today's standards, but it is easily one of the most unique touchstones of hockey pop culture, the likes of which has never been seen again." Remember Pro Beach Hockey? Ramps, two-point goals and sandy inline skates

 

[Habsfan18]

If anyone has a spare 20 minutes to kill, I uploaded to youtube a little tour through my library room. Please check it out if you’d like!

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Defenseman version of Sergei Fedorov might as well be "AVG"

 

[Habsfan18]

Henrik Lundqvist has stepped away from the game and will not play in the 2020-2021 season due to a heart condition. He’ll be 39 in March, so it makes you wonder if this will sadly be the end of the road for his career in hockey.

I wish him the best of luck, as personal health and family obviously comes before hockey.

From a hockey standpoint, it really is a shame he has never won the Cup. He has to be one of the best never to do so.

 

[Habsfan18]

Merry Christmas and Happy Holiday Season guys!

For my ATD Christmas wish this year, I’d like you to all allow me to draft Bobby Orr, Mario Lemieux and Patrick Roy with my first three picks this year in the ATD. Please take it under consideration.

Seriously, I wish you all good health and happiness in the coming year and beyond. Hopefully 2021 is less of a shit show than 2020 was.