ATD Chat Thread XVI

[BenchBrawl]

Whatever happened to EagleBelfour?

He was traveling internationally a lot. Then nothing.

He's been around the forum in other sections recently. I recall having a small exchange with him a few weeks ago. He has no time for the ATD anymore.

 

[tinyzombies]

I'm sure you've seen this? Who is #5, Beliveau or Crosby?

SIMMONS: Who’s No. 5 all-time: Beliveau or Sid The Kid?

 

[tinyzombies]

How about an NHL Playoff Only ATD?

Tricky I suppose, but has it been explored?

 

[BenchBrawl]

I've been rollerblading hard the last 5 years during the summer, not for hockey just skating in the streets, and I can't recommend enough the K2 BOA system. No laces, just some sort of wheel you rotate and it tightens a bunch of cords around your foot. The boots are so god damn comfortable that I recently bought 2 old pairs for cheap from the 2014-2015 era just in case mine breaks. Always had problem with comfortability too until those. I'm considering it for ice skates now.

You see the circle at the top; you rotate it, it takes 3 seconds, and you're done. It's an amazing system. I have this exact pair twice, plus the 2014 one which is the same but color gold instead of orange-ish (must admit the orange is ugly).

 

[ImporterExporter]

Really cool interview with Sid.

 

[tinyzombies]

I've been rollerblading hard the last 5 years during the summer, not for hockey just skating in the streets, and I can't recommend enough the K2 BOA system. No laces, just some sort of wheel you rotate and it tightens a bunch of cords around your foot. The boots are so god damn comfortable that I recently bought 2 old pairs for cheap from the 2014-2015 era just in case mine breaks. Always had problem with comfortability too until those. I'm considering it for ice skates now.

You see the circle at the top; you rotate it, it takes 3 seconds, and you're done. It's an amazing system. I have this exact pair twice, plus the 2014 one which is the same but color gold instead of orange-ish (must admit the orange is ugly).

Are they FAST?

 

[BenchBrawl]

Really cool interview with Sid.

Great interview

 

[tinyzombies]

Great interview

Lids gets a bit of a bump here. Rafalski a big bump?

 

[BenchBrawl]

Are they FAST?

Faster than hockey skates

 

[tinyzombies]

Faster than hockey skates

Seriously? What about those guys with the circus wheels? Also, what hardness?

 

[ImporterExporter]

Great interview

Yeah, he's a private guy so it was cool to see him open up a little bit. Very casual.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Nice to see another draft running, should've checked in way earlier.

Had some professional and personal stuff pretty much since the last ATD. I should be around with more regularity again

 

[ImporterExporter]

Lids gets a bit of a bump here. Rafalski a big bump?

Lidstrom will only get more appreciated with time IMO. He was as close to a perfect defenseman as you'll ever see, with the only "shortcoming" being he wasn't wrecking people all over the ice. Certainly the best defensemen of my adult life time by a wide margin. The only guys all time I have above him comfortably are Orr and Harvey.

Neat to hear Rafalski's name. Was more of an underrated comment from Sid but interesting.

I think the biggest takeaway from the interview is how normal he comes across. I like that he was able to poke fun of himself for being a whiner as an 18-19 year old kid in the league. Not shying away from some interesting topics. He's not a life of the party type certainly, but he just seems like a regular dude who you could carry on a conversation with just about anything.

 

[The Macho King]

I dont think Lids is underappreciated at all. Clearly the best D post lockout and normally viewed either top 5 or 6 all time. And the guys hes compared to (Bourque/Potvin/Shore/Harvey) are legends in their own right.

 

[VanIslander]

... the guys hes compared to (Bourque/Potvin/Shore/Harvey) are legends in their own right.

Crosby wasn't born when Bourque was a Norris trophy finalist for the 5th time, winning it for the first time. Sid was a month old when Ray was an all star at the 1987 Canada Cup, and Sid was finishing kindergarten when Ray received his 5th and last Norris win (11th finalist), so of course he would not be comparing the two.

Lidstrom would be the best Crosby has encountered. That bar includes... Pronger, MacInnis, Stevens, Doughty, Keith, Karlsson ... clearly everyone puts Lids ahead of them. So he ain't exactly underrated.

 

[The Macho King]

Crosby wasn't born when Bourque was a Norris trophy finalist for the 5th time, winning it for the first time. Sid was a month old when Ray was an all star at the 1987 Canada Cup, and Sid was finishing kindergarten when Ray received his 5th and last Norris win (11th finalist), so of course he would not be comparing the two.

Lidstrom would be the best Crosby has encountered. That bar includes... Pronger, MacInnis, Stevens, Doughty, Keith, Karlsson ... clearly everyone puts Lids ahead of them. So he ain't exactly underrated.

I was referring generally, not to Crosby's experience. But you're right - Lids is head and shoulders over the post-lockout crowd.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I'm not saying underrated. There is a difference between underrated (like not being rated properly all time) and underappreciated. There are a lot of people who think the gap between he and folks like Bourque are quite large. I've never seen it that way.

Lidstrom was the epitome of a quiet superstar. Game was like a metronome. He's one of those players you appreciate the older you get and the more you understand the nuances of the game.

That's all.

 

[The Macho King]

I'm not saying underrated. There is a difference between underrated (like not being rated properly all time) and underappreciated. There are a lot of people who think the gap between he and folks like Bourque are quite large. I've never seen it that way.

Lidstrom was the epitome of a quiet superstar. Game was like a metronome. He's one of those players you appreciate the older you get and the more you understand the nuances of the game.

That's all.

But ots not like Bourque was out there crushing guys like Pronger or rushing the puck like Karlsson either. He was a great positional D.

I'm one of those that thinks the gap between Bourque and Lids is significant because Bourque gets underappreciated as to how high his peak really was. If he were on the Flames, Habs, or God-forbid the Oilers instead of the Bruins where he had to be *the* team, his trophy case would be absurd.

 

[tinyzombies]

What surprised me was that Crosby had only two practices a week up to bantam and three in midget and he says there weren't many resources for players where he grew up he had to take the initiative. Also, that there were lots of high scorers like himself so he didn't think he was any different. But he thinks he had an advantage over Toronto area players who grow up under the microscope.

Also that he doesn't lift weights really for his legs he relies on plyometrics and DNA. And that speed is the first thing to go (and the league has gotten faster) so that's what he works extra hard at.

 

[ImporterExporter]

What surprised me was that Crosby had only two practices a week up to bantam and three in midget and he says there weren't many resources for players where he grew up he had to take the initiative. Also, that there were lots of high scorers like himself so he didn't think he was any different. But he thinks he had an advantage over Toronto area players who grow up under the microscope.

Also that he doesn't lift weights really for his legs he relies on plyometrics and DNA. And that speed is the first thing to go (and the league has gotten faster) so that's what he works extra hard at.

Yeah, the look into his really early playing days was neat. I was also caught off guard about the practice comments as far as bantam/midgets goes. I'd have guessed he was playing organized hockey 5-6 days week from the time he was a pup.

Plus I thought it was cool to hear Bizz and Whitney comment on Sid's work ethic and how insane it is. Yeah 87 is a generational talent and lot of that is God given, but there have been so many players, coaches, teammates or otherwise who have talked about how relentless Sid is at improving his game and staying sharp.

I really loved the "why is Mario cleaning up my dogs shit" story haha.

 

[tinyzombies]

Yeah, the look into his really early playing days was neat. I was also caught off guard about the practice comments as far as bantam/midgets goes. I'd have guessed he was playing organized hockey 5-6 days week from the time he was a pup.

Plus I thought it was cool to hear Bizz and Whitney comment on Sid's work ethic and how insane it is. Yeah 87 is a generational talent and lot of that is God given, but there have been so many players, coaches, teammates or otherwise who have talked about how relentless Sid is at improving his game and staying sharp.

I really loved the "why is Mario cleaning up my dogs ****" story haha.

As far as I'm concerned he's still #1. None of the top scorers match his two ways game and especially not in the middle. He's been robbed of some hardware.

 

[VanIslander]

One thing that's actually better with this newer format at HfBoards is:

The conversation function makes it really fast and easy to send "You're up" messages.

 

[Voight]

Lidstrom will only get more appreciated with time IMO. He was as close to a perfect defenseman as you'll ever see, with the only "shortcoming" being he wasn't wrecking people all over the ice. Certainly the best defensemen of my adult life time by a wide margin. The only guys all time I have above him comfortably are Orr and Harvey.

IMO Orr/Bourque/Harvey are comfortably ahead of him.

 

[Voight]

But ots not like Bourque was out there crushing guys like Pronger or rushing the puck like Karlsson either. He was a great positional D.

I'm one of those that thinks the gap between Bourque and Lids is significant because Bourque gets underappreciated as to how high his peak really was. If he were on the Flames, Habs, or God-forbid the Oilers instead of the Bruins where he had to be *the* team, his trophy case would be absurd.

The one thing I always bring up about Bourque is how he was in the Norris conversation literally every single season he played. That kind of consistency is unheard of, except for maybe Howe. At his peak he was a machine, carrying the Bruins for almost 20 years and playing at a high level every year. Put him in an era without 99 & 66 at their peaks and he probably has a Hart or two at minimum.

 

[The Macho King]

The one thing I always bring up about Bourque is how he was in the Norris conversation literally every single season he played. That kind of consistency is unheard of, except for maybe Howe. At his peak he was a machine, carrying the Bruins for almost 20 years and playing at a high level every year. Put him in an era without 99 & 66 at their peaks and he probably has a Hart or two at minimum.

(He should have a Hart anyway)

I don't think there's a good argument for the best defenseman post-Orr. Pre- Orr is tougher. Shore is a tough guy to gauge - it seems like around here at least his stock has lowered a tad due to a) discounting his Harts a bit due to different voting patterns pre-Norris, b) more criticism of his propensity for penalties, and c) relative lack of postseason success for a team of that strength. Harvey is a tough one. Hell - any of those 50s Habs are tough to rank because if you discount one, you kind of have to discount them all if the logic extends (absent significant evidence on either side of the dynasty that their rank is deserved). Probably more than any of the others, Harvey feels bolstered a bit by those Habs teams, so I would drop him a bit relative to Bourque.