ATD Chat Thread XVI

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seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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Moreover, the eye test may sway voters.

You say this as though Ovechkin is still a great "eye test" player. I don't think he has been for years! I know it's far too reductive to say a player literally only does one thing, but the last four years it feels like he just stands in one place and shoots. Gaudreau is buzzing all over the ice, making creative plays. That kind of thing passes the eye test.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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Did you know that the fast food place Harvey’s was named after Doug Harvey
No, it wasn't. You must have heard someone talking through their ***.

The original owner was gonna name the restaurant Humphrey's but when he was looking for signage he found a nice big cheap used "Harvey" sign from John Harvey Motors, which was going out of business in 1959.
 
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tinyzombies

Registered User
Dec 24, 2002
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No, it wasn't. You must have heard someone talking through their ***.

The original owner was gonna name the restaurant Humphrey's but when he was looking for signage he found a nice big cheap used "Harvey" sign from John Harvey Motors, which was going out of business in 1959.

That’s one theory but journo Dan Gallagher says no
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
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Journalist? Lol.

Music video hosting makes him part of the entertainment media. His education and research experience are outside the fray, it seems. Maybe he heard it said by someone on an on-air interview?
 
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tinyzombies

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Dec 24, 2002
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Maybe he heard it from Eugene Melnyk today?

Here’s the post on Danny gallagher’s Fb page:

“A month from today on April 22 from 2-4 at Ben McNally Books, 366 Bay St. in Toronto, I am launching my book Genius about Rick Mauran, left, the founder of Swiss Chalet, Harvey's and Mackenzie Financial. Read about how Mauran's partner George Sukornyk, middle, named Harvey's after a NHL legend. This book looks closely at a largely unknown Mauran, a shy, reticent, reclusive Montreal native, who had never talked to a reporter or author until I coaxed him to do so. A brilliant man, despite little education. This book celebrates Canadiana and a part of Canada's business history.”

“I bring forth a lot of theories about this, including what George Sukornyk told me.”

Harvey was his favorite player.
 

VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
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Just because Harvey was his favorite player doesn't mean he didn't change the idea of the name from Humphrey's to Harvey's because of a John "Harvey's" Motors sign he picked up in 1959.

Revisionist history.

Even the restaurant owner might have done it.
 

BenchBrawl

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Jul 26, 2010
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Harvey's is not that good.I had one close to my home back in the days so I ate there a lot.

It used to be better, like McDonald's, but last few times I went it was disappointing.Wouldn't be surprised if they disappear within 15 years.

In Quebec, why go to Harvey's when you can go to a Belle Province or similar restaurents? The latters are just better for the same price.

Speaking of franchises, the greatest mystery (possibly in the universe) is why the St-Hubert franchise even exist in Quebec.Overpriced, clearly inferior to all their competitors (especially Au Coq/Benny), yet here they are, everywhere.
 
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VanIslander

A 19-year ATDer on HfBoards
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I went to Harvey's twice in the mid-80s and never again. It was as bad as Arby's. (Still, better than McSawdust.)

I ate chili and baked potato at Wendy's often, and in terms of hamburgers, the only fast food joint I frequented was A&W, for a teen burger and cold glass root beer (we had a drive in /take out location, with girls on roller skates taking our order at our car window - until the service ended in 1986 and the A&W moved to the new local mall.

Homemade hamburgers and those made at some sit-down restaurants were far, far better than most fast food junk burgers. And don't get me started about the fries...
 
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tinyzombies

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Dec 24, 2002
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I went to Harvey's twice in the mid-80s and never again. It was as bad as Arby's. (Still, better than McSawdust.)

I ate chili and baked potato at Wendy's often, and in terms of hamburgers, the only fast food joint I frequented was A&W, for a teen burger and cold glass root beer (we had a drive in /take out location, with girls on roller skates taking our order at our car window - until the service ended in 1986 and the A&W moved to the new local mall.

Homemade hamburgers and those made at some sit-down restaurants were far, far better than most fast food junk burgers. And don't get me started about the fries...

My mother used to work at a&w a few blocks from my elementary school - I was lucky for a few years.
 
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BenchBrawl

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Jul 26, 2010
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I’m definitely a Harvey’s man- love the texture of the burger. Burger King is close but not quite.

My favorite $15-or-under franchise restaurents are:

Au Coq (or Benny)
Some Belle Provinces, not all
Dic Ann's

The worst is easily Tim Horton.I don't understand people that eat there.Coffee I understand, but not food (unless we're talking about a simple thing like a quick bagel on the fly).
 
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Johnny Engine

Moderator
Jul 29, 2009
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Has the hockey media as a whole just given up completely on considering anyone who isn't at the very top of the scoring leaderboard for MVP awards?
The last article I read on the subject did the usual dance about how "McDavid's the top talent in the game, but Kucherov is just too dangerous to ignore", and then dropped mention of Kane's role in the Blackhawk's late surge. Then, at the ended, noted that Gaudreau is "carrying" the Flames to a strong season.
...and then immediately after, in the Norris section, a case for why Mark Giordano has been far and away the best defenseman in the NHL this season. Perhaps that isn't as significant as McDavid's unparalleled abilities, or Kucherov's historic scoring (he should best Thornton's post-lockout points record, and Jagr's single season mark for assists by a winger), but shouldn't having the best defenseman in the NHL be seen as a much bigger reason for Calgary's success than having the 8th highest-scoring forward?

It looks like last year Doughty got a single 4th place vote for the Hart, and Hedman a 5th. It really doesn't square with the importance of good defensemen in the NHL, does it?
 
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Dreakmur

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Mar 25, 2008
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Has the hockey media as a whole just given up completely on considering anyone who isn't at the very top of the scoring leaderboard for MVP awards?
The last article I read on the subject did the usual dance about how "McDavid's the top talent in the game, but Kucherov is just too dangerous to ignore", and then dropped mention of Kane's role in the Blackhawk's late surge. Then, at the ended, noted that Gaudreau is "carrying" the Flames to a strong season.
...and then immediately after, in the Norris section, a case for why Mark Giordano has been far and away the best defenseman in the NHL this season. Perhaps that isn't as significant as McDavid's unparalleled abilities, or Kucherov's historic scoring (he should best Thornton's post-lockout points record, and Jagr's single season mark for assists by a winger), but shouldn't having the best defenseman in the NHL be seen as a much bigger reason for Calgary's success than having the 8th highest-scoring forward?

It looks like last year Doughty got a single 4th place vote for the Hart, and Hedman a 5th. It really doesn't square with the importance of good defensemen in the NHL, does it?

I'm not sure there is any situation I would vote any winger the MVP.
 

ImporterExporter

"You're a boring old man"
Jun 18, 2013
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I certainly think a major case needs to be made by folks who have a national audience about the importance of defense in regards to the Hart. Not to mention we need to start using more advanced analytics. Hockey is getting left behind in this regard and while you can't use the same methods as say baseball (more of a 1 on 1 game) there are already metrics I think make a lot of sense and I'm sure we can develop others. Hell, there are people on this forum that have done amazing statistical analysis that goes beyond raw data.

The problem with voting is it is largely a popularity contest. And with the emergence of fantasy sports and betting, offense gets all the glory.

Do I honestly think Kucherov is literally the most valuable player in hockey? No. He's a one way winger. Yes, his offensive value is very high (although not quite as impressive on the surface when you look at the PP numbers). And he does play on a stacked roster that is having a season on par with any of Bowman's Montreal squads. He'll win the Hart in a landslide and while I don't have a major problem with him winning, I certainly don't think it's so cut and dried by just looking at points. As I've said a million times, it's lazy analysis.

I mean look at how many people scoff at Crosby getting Selke recognition this year. A lot of it is simply folks who don't like the guy and will not enteratain the possibility that he has played at or near a Selke level defensively this year. Some of it stems from Crosby being a dominant offensive force earlier in his career while maintaining strong numbers even well past his prime.

But break down the numbers, raw AND advanced, watch the games and it's clear as day the impact 87 has had defensively for the Pens this year. Yeah the points are impressive given his age and the workload he's had, but I truly am most impressed by the big strides he's made defensively the past few years, especially this year.

I'm not saying he should win, but his career arc is very, very similar to Yzerman in terms of being offensively slanted in his early to mid 20's (without being a black hole mind you like a Bill Cowley or Ovechkin if you want a modern day player) to solid, to having a year where he's clearly taken a major step towards the top. I'm not surprised in the least given Sid's admiration for Yzerman or his work ethic. But there will always be a barrier against him due to factors I mentioned above (while conversely, some will just give him the adulation without even watching the games). Works both ways, as is life in general.

But getting back to wingers and the Hart. I agree in principle with @Dreakmur

Wingers are the least important position hockey. That's absolutely backed up when you look at SC winners over the history of the league, especially post expansion when talent was more dispersed. And as hockey has become more and more regimented/structured, C's have taken on more responsibilities in all 3 zones. Rarely do you see W's anchoring a line defensively. Mark Stone is a rare exception and I do think he should be getting more Selke love. But being stuck in Ottawa didn't help at all. Maybe playing on a winner in Vegas will garner him more exposure.

Now, with that being said, I'm not going to rage when Kuch gets the Hart. He's had a fantastic year and plays on the best team in the league by a mile. This Lightning team will be a colossal failure if they don't win the Cup. It's a lot of pressure but having the kind of season they've had will do that.
 
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