ATD 2021 Draft Thread II

[Habsfan18]

But it does say something that a guy like Pitre spent some time on D. And according to reports of the time, he did quite well defensively.

I mean, it at least shows that his mind for the game wasn’t offense-only. A guy like Bobby Hull couldn’t move to the back end and play a responsible two-way game. Pitre did. But yeah, it wasn’t completely out of the ordinary to see that during his era either.

So yeah, I wasn’t trying to claim Pitre was some two-way monster with a selke-level defensive game. Just that he wasn’t necessarily Nikita Kucherov either bringing 100% offense only, even if the descriptions of his defensive play were while he was playing D.

Of course his primary strength is scoring goals.

 

[BraveCanadian]

A left winger with 5 consecutive top 10s in scoring (while his line was being matched power on power against the other teams best), a significant contributor to 2 Stanley Cup wins in Chicago, and a Hart finalist with a couple of post season all star seletctions..

Going with Paul Ivan Thompson, LW!

 

[VanIslander]

Karlsson is a defenseman (6 goals and a plus/minus -15 last season ouch).

He plays like an offensive winger.

Assume squat from D to W movement other than: Gawd, he finally is where he belongs, not responsible for d.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

A left winger with 5 consecutive top 10s in scoring (while his line was being matched power on power against the other teams best), a significant contributor to 2 Stanley Cup wins in Chicago, and a Hart finalist with a couple of post season all star seletctions..

Going with Paul Ivan Thompson, LW!

He's always good value because at this point in the draft, GMs are looking for LWs with more established value away from the puck.

 

[overpass]

Well that mini-run on RD makes my choice an easy one.

Sergei Gonchar, D.

One of the top power play QBs ever, and a great puck mover from the back. Gonchar was a legit all-around #1 defenceman and a core player on the Pens team that made the final in 08 and won in 09.

My experience watching Gonchar in Ottawa is that he was good defensively, with good size and positioning, a good defensive stick, and very good hockey sense. He was used on a shutdown pairing behind Karlsson and performed very well. The only thing is that he wasn’t physical at all and he needs a physical partner to bang in the corners. I believe the scouting reports from his career agree...physical play is his weakness, not overall defensive play.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Well that mini-run on RD makes my choice an easy one.

Sergei Gonchar, D.

One of the top power play QBs ever, and a great puck mover from the back. Gonchar was a legit all-around #1 defenceman and a core player on the Pens team that made the final in 08 and won in 09.

My experience watching Gonchar in Ottawa is that he was good defensively, with good size and positioning, a good defensive stick, and very good hockey sense. He was used on a shutdown pairing behind Karlsson and performed very well. The only thing is that he wasn’t physical at all and he needs a physical partner to bang in the corners. I believe the scouting reports from his career agree...physical play is his weakness, not overall defensive play.

Agree completely having watched him a ton in Pitt.

Good positionally on the back end, with a strong poke check. Definitely lacks physicality but overall, he's a nice pick here. That PP ability comes in handy this late and unlike some strong PP options remaining, he's not a sieve in his own end.

 

[VanIslander]

I have drafted Gonchar as my #3 before and argued he is a top-3 core type two-way force.

He is great without the puck. A guy like Karlsson could learn from him.

Seriously.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Well that mini-run on RD makes my choice an easy one.

Sergei Gonchar, D.

Damn I was on the fence if he'd make it down to be on my PP.. but he is buttery soft so I was going to shelter him big time.

 

[Habsfan18]

During his days with the Caps, Gonchar was viewed among his peers and in hockey circles as being a liability defensively. Certainly not an all-around one. That being said, I think a lot of the defensive concerns were overblown. Some of it warranted of course, but he wasn’t some bum defensively either. I think his overall game improved quite a pit during his time in Pittsburgh. But I do have that memory of Lars Eller making him look awful in the playoffs. Gonchar put in zero effort to stop him along the boards. Eller scooted right by him and scored. That was only one play of course but it’s the one that sticks in my mind during that playoff run for Gonchar.

My experience (and it was only 40ish games) of watching him in Montreal was that he was atrocious defensively. But it’s possible he had stopped caring at that point and was on his last leg so to speak.

Great PP QB. And the defensive issues are overblown even if he’s definitely considered more of an offensive guy.

 

[BraveCanadian]

During his days with the Caps, Gonchar was viewed among his peers and in hockey circles as being a liability defensively. Certainly not an all-around one. That being said, I think a lot of the defensive concerns were overblown. Some of it warranted of course, but he wasn’t some bum defensively either. I think his overall game improved quite a pit during his time in Pittsburgh. But I do have that memory of Lars Eller making him look awful in the playoffs. Gonchar put in zero effort to stop him along the boards. Eller scooted right by him and scored. That was only one play of course but it’s the one that sticks in my mind during that playoff run for Gonchar.

My experience (and it was only 40ish games) of watching him in Montreal was that he was atrocious defensively. But it’s possible he had stopped caring at that point and was on his last leg so to speak.

Great PP QB. And the defensive issues are overblown even if he’s definitely considered more of an offensive guy.

Yeah that play was embarrassing..

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I guess it makes sense that Gonchar went not long after Burns; I don't see much difference between them in overall value.

Neither is a complete defenseman at this level, but they were definitely the best offensive specialists available. And some teams need those.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

During his days with the Caps, Gonchar was viewed among his peers and in hockey circles as being a liability defensively. Certainly not an all-around one. That being said, I think a lot of the defensive concerns were overblown. Some of it warranted of course, but he wasn’t some bum defensively either. I think his overall game improved quite a pit during his time in Pittsburgh. But I do have that memory of Lars Eller making him look awful in the playoffs. Gonchar put in zero effort to stop him along the boards. Eller scooted right by him and scored. That was only one play of course but it’s the one that sticks in my mind during that playoff run for Gonchar.

My experience (and it was only 40ish games) of watching him in Montreal was that he was atrocious defensively. But it’s possible he had stopped caring at that point and was on his last leg so to speak.

Great PP QB. And the defensive issues are overblown even if he’s definitely considered more of an offensive guy.

Should be noted that Gonchar saw big minutes in the 1998 run to the finals, while another offensive defenseman got buried.

I don't think Gonchar is horrible as some defensively, but he is limited.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

OP note - Flaman is spelled wrong. It might trip some GMs up in the future.

 

[Johnny Engine]

During his days with the Caps, Gonchar was viewed among his peers and in hockey circles as being a liability defensively. Certainly not an all-around one. That being said, I think a lot of the defensive concerns were overblown. Some of it warranted of course, but he wasn’t some bum defensively either. I think his overall game improved quite a pit during his time in Pittsburgh. But I do have that memory of Lars Eller making him look awful in the playoffs. Gonchar put in zero effort to stop him along the boards. Eller scooted right by him and scored. That was only one play of course but it’s the one that sticks in my mind during that playoff run for Gonchar.

My experience (and it was only 40ish games) of watching him in Montreal was that he was atrocious defensively. But it’s possible he had stopped caring at that point and was on his last leg so to speak.

Great PP QB. And the defensive issues are overblown even if he’s definitely considered more of an offensive guy.

Was it Eller? I thought it was Travis Moen. One way or another, memories can be faulty and that play sucked.

 

[ImporterExporter]

OP note - Flaman is spelled wrong. It might trip some GMs up in the future.

Fixed.

Thanks for heads up sir!

 

[Habsfan18]

Was it Eller? I thought it was Travis Moen. One way or another, memories can be faulty and that play sucked.

Ah, you’re right. It was Moen. I remember that clear as day so not sure why I thought it was Eller.

On the topic of that playoff run, Dominic Moore (and I can say these names because no way they will be drafted) will forever hold a special place in my memories due to that goal late in game 7 to put the Caps away in round 1. Might be my favorite goal of the past 2 decades. I never screamed so loud. Okay, maybe Crosby’s golden goal.

 

[overpass]

During his days with the Caps, Gonchar was viewed among his peers and in hockey circles as being a liability defensively. Certainly not an all-around one. That being said, I think a lot of the defensive concerns were overblown. Some of it warranted of course, but he wasn’t some bum defensively either. I think his overall game improved quite a pit during his time in Pittsburgh. But I do have that memory of Lars Eller making him look awful in the playoffs. Gonchar put in zero effort to stop him along the boards. Eller scooted right by him and scored. That was only one play of course but it’s the one that sticks in my mind during that playoff run for Gonchar.

My experience (and it was only 40ish games) of watching him in Montreal was that he was atrocious defensively. But it’s possible he had stopped caring at that point and was on his last leg so to speak.

Great PP QB. And the defensive issues are overblown even if he’s definitely considered more of an offensive guy.

He was bad in Montreal but he was almost 40 and I think his legs were gone.

ATD 2013 BIO Thread (quotes, stats, pics, sources, everything)

I don’t remember much of him in Washington. The scouting reports in his bio linked above show he was actually considered a defensive d-man when he broke into the league. He did have some defensive issues as he became an offensive d-man in Washington, getting caught up ice sometimes. But then he improved in Pittsburgh and Ottawa.

I haven’t seen many better late-30s defencemen than Gonchar in the lockout shortened 2013 season. At age 38, he was the team MVP in my opinion. Karlsson and #19 missed most of the season and the Sens still made the playoffs. Gonchar was just terrific with his defensive positioning, defensive stick, and transition passing. He usually played with#4 on a shutdown pairing, and #4 handled more of the banging in the corners and behind the net while Gonchar covered the front of the net more often.

 

[Habsfan18]

But back to Gonchar, I mean he’s probably closer to the Paul Coffey and Erik Karlsson scale of defense than he would be to a defensive shut down one. But that doesn’t mean he was a complete liability either. I think at times he could show he was effective away from the puck as well.

But at the ATD level, you absolutely do not want Gonchar trying to play defensive shutdown hockey.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

He was bad in Montreal but he was almost 40 and I think his legs were gone.

ATD 2013 BIO Thread (quotes, stats, pics, sources, everything)

I don’t remember much of him in Washington. The scouting reports in his bio linked above show he was actually considered a defensive d-man when he broke into the league. He did have some defensive issues as he became an offensive d-man in Washington, getting caught up ice sometimes. But then he improved in Pittsburgh and Ottawa.

I haven’t seen many better late-30s defencemen than Gonchar in the lockout shortened 2013 season. At age 38, he was the team MVP in my opinion. Karlsson and #19 missed most of the season and the Sens still made the playoffs. Gonchar was just terrific with his defensive positioning, defensive stick, and transition passing. He usually played with#4 on a shutdown pairing, and #4 handled more of the banging in the corners and behind the net while Gonchar covered the front of the net more often.

He was soft and often caught out of position in Washington, but wasn't as bad defensively as some. Like a 3 out of 10 or something like that.

His performance as a decent all-rounder in Pittsburgh caught a lot of people (including me) by surprise.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

But back to Gonchar, I mean he’s probably closer to the Paul Coffey and Erik Karlsson scale of defense than he would be to a defensive shut down one. But that doesn’t mean he was a complete liability either. I think at times he could show he was effective away from the puck as well.

But at the ATD level, you absolutely do not want Gonchar trying to play defensive shutdown hockey.

Yes, those two are good comparables defensively, meaning as bad as anyone drafted so far, but not as bad as guys who will be drafted, and definitely not the worst in the NHL.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Ah, you’re right. It was Moen. I remember that clear as day so not sure why I thought it was Eller.

On the topic of that playoff run, Dominic Moore (and I can say these names because no way they will be drafted) will forever hold a special place in my memories due to that goal late in game 7 to put the Caps away in round 1. Might be my favorite goal of the past 2 decades. I never screamed so loud. Okay, maybe Crosby’s golden goal.

That'd be Connor Brown clinching a 2017 playoff spot for me.
Another thing - we had a Leafs playoff game and Raptors-76ers on two different screens, with the sound on for hockey, when Kawhi hit that last-second shot to win the second round. I'm pretty sure Jenny Engine was on the phone too, and I just started pointing and gesturing wildly at the laptop screen, but didn't make a sound.

 

[Habsfan18]

He was bad in Montreal but he was almost 40 and I think his legs were gone.

ATD 2013 BIO Thread (quotes, stats, pics, sources, everything)

I don’t remember much of him in Washington. The scouting reports in his bio linked above show he was actually considered a defensive d-man when he broke into the league. He did have some defensive issues as he became an offensive d-man in Washington, getting caught up ice sometimes. But then he improved in Pittsburgh and Ottawa.

I haven’t seen many better late-30s defencemen than Gonchar in the lockout shortened 2013 season. At age 38, he was the team MVP in my opinion. Karlsson and #19 missed most of the season and the Sens still made the playoffs. Gonchar was just terrific with his defensive positioning, defensive stick, and transition passing. He usually played with#4 on a shutdown pairing, and #4 handled more of the banging in the corners and behind the net while Gonchar covered the front of the net more often.

Yeah, I have those scouting report books. He was considered a shut down D very early on in his career before it became increasingly obvious that wasn’t what he excelled at. Over time, in Washington especially, he became known pretty much purely for the offense and was indeed called a liability on the defensive side - again whether that is warranted or not is another story. But that was the general consensus anyways.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Yeah, I have those scouting report books. He was considered a shut down D very early on in his career before it became increasingly obvious that wasn’t what he excelled at. Over time, in Washington especially, he became known pretty much purely for the offense and was indeed called a liability on the defensive side - again whether that is warranted or not is another story. But that was the general consensus anyways.

Yeah, those early scouting reports are funny looking back. I remember Ovechkin and Malkin were both scouted as strong two-way players, stronger than Crosby.

 

[overpass]

But back to Gonchar, I mean he’s probably closer to the Paul Coffey and Erik Karlsson scale of defense than he would be to a defensive shut down one. But that doesn’t mean he was a complete liability either. I think at times he could show he was effective away from the puck as well.

But at the ATD level, you absolutely do not want Gonchar trying to play defensive shutdown hockey.

I rate Gonchar clearly above Karlsson in defence. Karlsson at his best is maybe as good or possibly even better than Gonchar defensively, but he’s been at that level so rarely. Overall Gonchar was better without the puck. Much better size and positioning in front of his net. Defensive stick was just as good and he used it better because of his positioning. Karlsson was more valuable once he got the puck because of his ability to skate it out, but Gonchar passed just as well. And Karlsson got caught up ice more than Gonchar did.

Karlsson needed to be protected with a good partner even more than Gonchar. If he has a weak partner, his pairing just bleeds goals against. Both in Ottawa and now I hear Sharks fans saying his partner is dragging him down. Gonchar made Jared Cowen look like a top 4 NHL for a whole season.

I can’t give my own scouting report for Paul Coffey but I can say that Gonchar has never been on the ice for huge goals-against numbers like Coffey was in Pittsburgh.

 

[VanIslander]

I saw Malkin impress without the puck and OV (my man) suck without the puck in international competition. Wow.

If Malkin had more guts, he would be greater than Ovechkin.

But he hasn't/didn't/does not have...

Malkin & Gonchar are skilled players who **** the **** up.