Player Discussion At 47 the Senators Select Alex Formenton

[Micklebot]

Maybe not all year long but certainly when Chabot went down for 25 games

Well, when Chabot was out, it would likely have been one of Holden or Brannstrom, I'd have to check, because he only played about 150 mins combined 5v5 with anyone else.

 

[Alex1234]

Well, when Chabot was out, it would likely have been one of Holden or Brannstrom, I'd have to check, because he only played about 150 mins combined 5v5 with anyone else.

Cool
Crazy how we somehow won games with that D minus Chabot lol

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Well, as Mrs_NyQuil said to me earlier today, it certainly sucks that the timing of the comeuppance for this kind of behaviour affects our competitiveness as a team, but as a woman she doesn't exactly have a problem with it being dealt with so harshly and so publicly because it should make future prospects think twice about their decision-making.

No issues with that .. I am not finger pointing at Formenton for being guilty. None of us know I presume. So unless someone does know precisely what Formenton's involvement is .. Woman, man, anyone should wait and see what comes out before we railroad the guy.

 

[NyQuil]

No issues with that .. I am not finger pointing at Formenton for being guilty. None of us know I presume. So unless someone does know precisely what Formenton's involvement is .. Woman, man, anyone should wait and see what comes out before we railroad the guy.

I'm be pretty surprised at this point if Formenton was not involved, but obviously no action will be taken until the investigation results are made public.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I'm be pretty surprised at this point if Formenton was not invovled, but obviously no action will be taken until the investigation results are made public.

He was on the team . He was potentially involved as are several others.
If Dorion was negotiating with Formenton's agent as he indicated. There is a chance Formenton is betting on himself being cleared and is not willing to accept a lower value contract. I really hope he is cleared. Its an interesting phenomenon that Formenton gets the finger pointed at him far more than Batherson does when we know exactly the same amount about both of them.

 

[bert]

He played most of his time with one of Chabot or Holden. I thought you liked Holden? He did get a fair amount with Brannstrom too, so I guess that's who you're referring to as a bad partner?

He carried a pair with Holden that took top 4 minutes against the other teams best players.... That's not easy. I like Holden, as a bottom pair guy not in that role but they were effective. That's what turned the season around having 2 legit pairings. Brannstrom also a bottom pair guy playing his best hockey by far with zub. The constant is Zub. Everyone plays their best hockey with him. I don't see how he is expendable on any level.

 

[Micklebot]

He carried a pair with Holden that took top 4 minutes against the other teams best players.... That's not easy. I like Holden, as a bottom pair guy not in that role but they were effective. That's what turned the season around having 2 legit pairings. Brannstrom also a bottom pair guy playing his best hockey by far with zub. The constant is Zub. Everyone plays their best hockey with him. I don't see how he is expendable on any level.

I like Zub quite a bit, but I think Holden has faired pretty well regardless of his partner, and he had to play most of his time with Zaitsev...

All that said, the constant being Zub might not mean what you think it does when you consider that the alternative to playing with Zub for these guys was playing with Zaitsev or J.Brown for most of the season. So I'll give Brannstrom a pass for not looking as good beside J.Brown as he did with Zub.

I'm eager to see how things shake out this year, Hamonic is a huge improvement over J.Brown, and if DJ is willing to play somebody on their off side, we might not have to see Zaitsev much either. That combined with no more Mete, or MDZ means we no longer have any outright bad Dmen as regulars in the lineup and that should help everyone look better.

 

[Answer]

Formenton is not on the Roster list

That is really going to effect our bottom 6 and depth

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Lots of stuff.

"We don't discuss negotiations in the media"

"We are talking but nothing to report"

He said he expects him to sign and be at TC. If he wanted to leave it alone he didn't have to be so specific.

How specific is that?

Formenton is not on the Roster list

That is really going to effect our bottom 6 and depth

Hence the Motte signing

 

[Golden_Jet]

I like Zub quite a bit, but I think Holden has faired pretty well regardless of his partner, and he had to play most of his time with Zaitsev...

All that said, the constant being Zub might not mean what you think it does when you consider that the alternative to playing with Zub for these guys was playing with Zaitsev or J.Brown for most of the season. So I'll give Brannstrom a pass for not looking as good beside J.Brown as he did with Zub.

I'm eager to see how things shake out this year, Hamonic is a huge improvement over J.Brown, and if DJ is willing to play somebody on their off side, we might not have to see Zaitsev much either. That combined with no more Mete, or MDZ means we no longer have any outright bad Dmen as regulars in the lineup and that should help everyone look better.

Possible Zaitsev surprises us this year, after staying in Ottawa all summer, and DJ said he played injured most of last year
Guess we’ll find out camp.

 

[Micklebot]

Possible Zaitsev surprises us this year, after staying in Ottawa all summer, and DJ said he played injured most of last year
Guess we’ll find out camp.

I mean, he's 30 yrs old and has been here for 3 seasons, I think we know what we have in him, and I somehow doubt training in Ottawa due to an ongoing war back home is what's going to be the difference maker between what we've seen in the past.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Possible Zaitsev surprises us this year, after staying in Ottawa all summer, and DJ said he played injured most of last year
Guess we’ll find out camp.

Was he injured the year before too?

 

[Golden_Jet]

I mean, he's 30 yrs old and has been here for 3 seasons, I think we know what we have in him, and I somehow doubt training in Ottawa due to an ongoing war back home is what's going to be the difference maker between what we've seen in the past.

What about his injury last year. That’s why I said we’ll find out.

Was he injured the year before too?

Nope, but he’s not terrible on a third pairing.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Formenton is not on the Roster list

That is really going to effect our bottom 6 and depth

Is that just because he's the only player still unsigned?

 

[OD99]

How specific is that?

On a scale of 1 - 10 I would say it is an 8.

"Expects him to signed before camp" leaves limited room for interpretation.

 

[Micklebot]

What about his injury last year. That’s why I said we’ll find out.

He's been in the league for 6 years and we know what he is. He's not going to surprise anyone, he might play better than last year but that's a low bar.

 

[toivy]

Is that just because he's the only player still unsigned?

That's how I'm reading into this. My understanding is that every SPC has an ethics clause that would allow the contract to be terminated without penalty if violated. IIRC this is what happened to both Mike Richards and Evander Kane. IMO that SHOULD allow GMPD to sign Formenton (and is likely why we've heard negotiations are ongoing and the whole "expects to sign before TC" comment).

 

[caymanmew]

That's how I'm reading into this. My understanding is that every SPC has an ethics clause that would allow the contract to be terminated without penalty if violated. IIRC this is what happened to both Mike Richards and Evander Kane. IMO that SHOULD allow GMPD to sign Formenton (and is likely why we've heard negotiations are ongoing and the whole "expects to sign before TC" comment).

Shouldn't it matter when the ethics violation happened compared to when the contract is signed? Surely a past unethical decision doesn't allow for teams to terminate contracts whenever they want.

It is not like this is an unknown situation, if we sign him at this point we are doing so with the knowledge of his connections (as I am sure the team and NHL know the names of the accused and who is accused of what) to the incident.

 

[GCK]

He's been in the league for 6 years and we know what he is. He's not going to surprise anyone, he might play better than last year but that's a low bar.

If he plays the way he did 2 years ago then he’s a decent 3rd pairing guy, but he was a heap of burning dung last season.

If the speculation is true then we will surely know before camp. No way the league or PA wants the players showing up to camp and having to face the media.

 

[Big Muddy]

That's how I'm reading into this. My understanding is that every SPC has an ethics clause that would allow the contract to be terminated without penalty if violated. IIRC this is what happened to both Mike Richards and Evander Kane. IMO that SHOULD allow GMPD to sign Formenton (and is likely why we've heard negotiations are ongoing and the whole "expects to sign before TC" comment).

Found the info below in the CBA (2013). Formenton is RFA, so he does not currently have a contract. The league could challenge and/or deregister a player contract if Ottawa were to sign Formenton to a contract. There's a grievance process that the NHLPA could launch and there's lots of rules and words about that in the CBA.

18-A.2 Commissioner Authority to Impose Discipline for Off-Ice Conduct. Whenever the Commissioner determines that a Player has violated a League Rule applicable to Players (other than Playing Rules subjecting the Player to potential Supplementary Discipline for On-Ice Conduct), or has been or is guilty of conduct (whether during or outside the playing season) that is detrimental to or against the welfare of the League or the game of hockey, he may discipline such Player in any or all of the following respects:

1. (a) by expelling or suspending such Player for a definite or indefinite period;
2. (b) by cancelling any SPC that such Player has with any Member Club; or
3. (c) by imposing a fine on the Player not exceeding the maximum permissible fine

under Section 18.7(b).
For the purpose of calculating compensation forfeited due to a suspension under this Article, the Player will forfeit all Paragraph 1 NHL Salary and Bonuses, but not Performance Bonuses, commencing on the effective date of the suspension through the completion of the last game or date of the suspension, inclusive of all intervening days.

 

[Xspyrit]

The rumored year suspension isnt enough?... There was already a criminal investigation, his life will be tainted/ruined already. I would hope that this organization is into rehabilitation for a teenage mistake. That clearly is more of a cultural organizational issue with hockey canada. Thats the fundamental problem here.

But is it just a "teenage mistake"? I mean, there must be an importance scale for crimes or reprehensible acts. Hitting somebody is certainly not as bad as killing for example.

Anybody who is guilty of a rape should be having their "second chances" in a much more modest life setup than a multi-millionaire privileged NHL life. Cancel right away and leave that dream opportunity to a more deserving kid. The NHL talent pool is going to be just fine

I don't care how much I like Formenton and Batherson as players. IF they did it, they don't deserve anything anymore and it would be better for them anyway to just disappear from the "spotlight". I mean, we (almost) all live away from that spotlight, I'm sure they could do it too.

This is my opinion anyway. Rules should be black and white for everybody and shouldn't protect the rich and privileged.

 

[bert]

But is it just a "teenage mistake"? I mean, there must be an importance scale for crimes or reprehensible acts. Hitting somebody is certainly not as bad as killing for example.

Anybody who is guilty of a rape should be having their "second chances" in a much more modest life setup than a multi-millionaire privileged NHL life. Cancel right away and leave that dream opportunity to a more deserving kid. The NHL talent pool is going to be just fine

I don't care how much I like Formenton and Batherson as players. IF they did it, they don't deserve anything anymore and it would be better for them anyway to just disappear from the "spotlight". I mean, we (almost) all live away from that spotlight, I'm sure they could do it too.

This is my opinion anyway. Rules should be black and white for everybody and shouldn't protect the rich and privileged.

Just want to go over a few things. Currently there is no verdict yet for the league investigation. There was a criminal police investigation. No one was found guilty. Whether that was right or wrong that was the outcome. As outsiders those are the facts we currently know. This discussion is based on the court of public appeal now. Which there are no guidelines. So you've spoken your piece and if that's how you feel that's completely fair. I personally won't condemn someone for something unless there are more facts or a decisive verdict is presented. It appears to me this entire venture has to be more grey than black or white based on the current landscape of the facts we know and the conclusions that have come out soon far.

I also do believe in second chances and human rehabilitation. That doesn't mean I don't believe in punishment for the offenders, that should always be fit for the crime.

 

[Xspyrit]

Eh, I don’t think Brown would have accepted a primarily defensive/PK role in a contract year, and that’s what he would have gotten. If there wasn’t a formal trade request made in the summer, it would have come in September, and I don’t think the team needs discontent in the room in such a big year.

Guys like Joseph, Motte and Kelly will be solid role players in the bottom 6, and they’ll play there happily.

DeBrincat and Giroux are huge upgrades on Formenton and Brown. Joseph for Paul is a wash. And I’d much rather have Motte over Ennis.

So we’re still way ahead.

The massive upgrade is DeBrincat vs Formenton, although Forms was a rookie last year and his game could still grow significantly. DeBrincat is already in his prime/peak

Like I said before, Giroux is basically a Brown deluxe version but he also turns 35 y/o in January. Hopefully he'll be able to keep a level above Brown for the whole 3 years

I could see Joseph put better offensive numbers than Paul but I don't think he can be as good defensively and overall

Overall, short term future, DeBrincat and Giroux gives us a very legit top-6 so that's what matters in the end. In an ideal world, I would have been absolutely thrilled to have Paul - Pinto - Brown as a 3rd line but Brown/Paul contract situations forced us to make changes. It was too risky and not ideal to commit to them long term. I think Joseph got the extension Nick Paul wouldn't sign. Can't blame Nick, he went for LONG term security

But we're going to be fine as we have Formenton and/or Greig, plus Joseph could do very good things during the tenure of his contract

 

[Xspyrit]

Just want to go over a few things. Currently there is no verdict yet for the league investigation. There was a criminal police investigation. No one was found guilty. Whether that was right or wrong that was the outcome. As outsiders those are the facts we currently know. This discussion is based on the court of public appeal now. Which there are no guidelines. So you've spoken your piece and if that's how you feel that's completely fair. I personally won't condemn someone for something unless there are more facts or a decisive verdict is presented. It appears to me this entire venture has to be more grey than black or white based on the current landscape of the facts we know and the conclusions that have come out soon far.

I also do believe in second chances and human rehabilitation. That doesn't mean I don't believe in punishment for the offenders, that should always be fit for the crime.

Yes, innocent until proven guilty is the law and I 100% agree with it. I am not condemning Formenton whatsoever, I am talking with a gigantic IF and also it applies to anybody who would commit the same crimes, including myself.

So based on the "IF", your whole first paragraph is irrelevant to what I was saying...

And yes second chances absolutely need to exist. When I was a social worker for a few years, it was actually a part of my job, to support ex-cons in their procedures and help them find a better path in life. Let me tell you that none of them was anywhere near the NHL spotlight and the money and privileges that comes with it.

That is why I was talking about a MODEST setup. You need a massive dose of humility to actually do a mea culpa on the bad things you did. I believe playing in the NHL is not the right "consequence" for a sex offender.

 

[sennysensen]

Batherson invited to training camp, Formenton not. Again, the team shows they clearly know 1 guy was involved, the other guy not.