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ps241

The Ballad of Ville Bobby
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I spoke with a hockey friend of mine today, "applauding" how Arizona has truly lived up to their Wile E namesake once again.

Now the next time they lose a draft pick to malfeasance, stupidity or anything in between, I want Gary Bettman to end the conference call with "Meep! Meep!" before hanging up.

I will still boo him of course, but it will now be 100% ironic :)

Its almost like they did this “crazy Ivan” to shit on the league for punishing them. Shooting their nose off to spite their face. You honestly can’t make this crap up it’s so farcical!
 

AlphaLackey

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Mar 21, 2013
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For those who like my rants:

I posted a pretty well (IMO) thought out screed about the Miller case on my FB. I won't post it here, but y'all know the quality and caliber of rhetoric I stand for, so if you want to see it, just shoot me a DM for a copy/paste.
 
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AlphaLackey

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Mortimer Snerd

You kids get off my lawn!
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I predict that this chance will not come. The calls have already started for him to be cut from UND, and I'd freely bet money at even odds that this happens.

Honestly, I hope not. Education is the best weapon to fight bigotry. He may actually be exposed to a broader world view at university. If you support cutting him from the hockey team (and the scholarship that goes with it), would you also approve of refusing to admit him as a student? It has to end somewhere. Otherwise we are just grooming another skin head militiaman.
 

Mortimer Snerd

You kids get off my lawn!
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Always said this should have been their logo...

wiley-clipart-14.jpg

Would go with their AHL team. :laugh:

787ef4a4.png
 

Mortimer Snerd

You kids get off my lawn!
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You put Scheifele with a D capable of breaking up the cycle he understands how to play defense just fine in his own zone. When Scheifele started playing with DeMelo and Morrissey as a pair there was a very significant rise in his underlying numbers. A while back I isolated some of the best defensive centers in the league with the teams best and worst defenseman and the results were very enlightening. Even Bergeron's defensive metrics took a big time hit whenever he was paired with below replacement level defenseman like we mostly dressed last season.

Not sure if this is correct in Scheifele's case or not. But I like to believe it so .... :thumbu:
 

AlphaLackey

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Honestly, I hope not. Education is the best weapon to fight bigotry. He may actually be exposed to a broader world view at university. If you support cutting him from the hockey team (and the scholarship that goes with it), would you also approve of refusing to admit him as a student? It has to end somewhere. Otherwise we are just grooming another skin head militiaman.

Especially when you look at how much of this can be attributed to his upbringing, what with his parents being just the absolutely filthiest.
 
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larmex99

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Everyone has been bullied in some way. I was bullied by a guy the year ahead of me in HS. He gave me an ethnic nickname and tormented me constantly, embarrassing me in front of my friends and any girl I was around. I avoided dances and sports because he was always threatening/harassing me. He was a big guy too. One day we got a new kid in our class who was huge and was returning from being expelled for slamming a car door on a kid’s head that was bothering him. The first time that he witnessed this kid hassling me he took him by the throat and lifted him off the ground until he was choking out. He let him down and said: This guy is my friend, got it?

Almost 25 years later the bully called me to apologize because he couldn’t live with himself without letting me know that he was not the same person. So we talked and he told me that getting straightened out by the big guy was the best thing that happened to him. The moral of that story was that people do change and none of us should be judging from on high. Paying the price is part of changing and everyone deserves a second chance. BTW, my tormentor is a member of the clergy with a large congregation. Every year he sends me an online Hanukkah Card.
 

Puckatron 3000

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Everyone has been bullied in some way. I was bullied by a guy the year ahead of me in HS. He gave me an ethnic nickname and tormented me constantly, embarrassing me in front of my friends and any girl I was around. I avoided dances and sports because he was always threatening/harassing me. He was a big guy too. One day we got a new kid in our class who was huge and was returning from being expelled for slamming a car door on a kid’s head that was bothering him. The first time that he witnessed this kid hassling me he took him by the throat and lifted him off the ground until he was choking out. He let him down and said: This guy is my friend, got it?

Almost 25 years later the bully called me to apologize because he couldn’t live with himself without letting me know that he was not the same person. So we talked and he told me that getting straightened out by the big guy was the best thing that happened to him. The moral of that story was that people do change and none of us should be judging from on high. Paying the price is part of changing and everyone deserves a second chance. BTW, my tormentor is a member of the clergy with a large congregation. Every year he sends me an online Hanukkah Card.

That's a good story. Thanks for sharing it.

There are definitely people whose moral compass develops late. And as your story illustrates, sometimes it takes a pretty major event to show a person they're on the wrong path. In some ways, that new kid standing up for you is the same as Arizona standing up for the kid Miller bullied ruthlessly. Even with the jaded view that they only did it due to public pressure, at least it's saying to both Miller, and society in general that this kind of behaviour is not ok. In that case, it's the people applying the public pressure that are standing up for him.

I hope that Miller, after a lot of self reflection, turns out to be a good person - like the bully in your story seems to have. I also have zero problem in the meantime that people learn there are consequences for being a hateful person who intentionally try to make other people's lives miserable. Sometimes that has lifelong consequences.

I think most people who agree with me that the consequences for Miller's actions are not too harsh, would also agree that there is a path back for him. But it's gotta be more than a court ordered apology, and pretty much zero reversal on his former behaviour.
 

HannuJ

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Everyone has been bullied in some way. I was bullied by a guy the year ahead of me in HS. He gave me an ethnic nickname and tormented me constantly, embarrassing me in front of my friends and any girl I was around. I avoided dances and sports because he was always threatening/harassing me. He was a big guy too. One day we got a new kid in our class who was huge and was returning from being expelled for slamming a car door on a kid’s head that was bothering him. The first time that he witnessed this kid hassling me he took him by the throat and lifted him off the ground until he was choking out. He let him down and said: This guy is my friend, got it?

Almost 25 years later the bully called me to apologize because he couldn’t live with himself without letting me know that he was not the same person. So we talked and he told me that getting straightened out by the big guy was the best thing that happened to him. The moral of that story was that people do change and none of us should be judging from on high. Paying the price is part of changing and everyone deserves a second chance. BTW, my tormentor is a member of the clergy with a large congregation. Every year he sends me an online Hanukkah Card.
repent and one should be forgiven.
Miller's yet to repent. let him figure out how to maybe be a better person, then we can talk.


the ironic thing about your story? you're not jewish and he sends you a channukah card every year! lol
 
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larmex99

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repent and one should be forgiven.
Miller's yet to repent. let him figure out how to maybe be a better person, then we can talk.


the ironic thing about your story? you're not jewish and he sends you a channukah card every year! lol
Maybe it is him that is Jewish? No, it wasn’t:laugh:
 
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Jets 31

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The part of the story that is different is the kid that was getting tormented was challenged, that's just awful. I have a in-law that is challenged and the guy is one of the nicest people you could ever meet. I can't imagine some low life piece of shit tormenting him and only saying sorry because it was now coming back to bite him in the ass .
 

AlphaLackey

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There's been some good discussions here. Very much appreciate larmex sharing a personal story about being bullied and witnessing first hand the ability for human growth and forgiveness. And also, as others have pointed out, the potential for consequences to happen for bad actions. One might almost say that it's a necessity, that no one repents until something opens their eyes.

I'd like to contribute a personal story of my own, to reinforce my angle that we must nevertheless be careful when seeking these consequences.

One of my businesses is to provide mathematical "fairness certification" for online casinos. Basically, I review all their play logs every month, analyze the house's wins and losses to make sure they closely match theoretical expectations, make sure that game events match real life patterns, etc. If the game uses a deck of cards, how often is the top card the ace of spades? Obviously that should be 1/52, plus/minus for variance, yeah? Stuff like that. They pass the tests, I award the seal, etc. etc.

Gamblers being what they are, I often get 'colorful' emails from people who have lost reams of money in online casinos, and lash out at me because I'm the only person they can contact that is any way associated with the casino. In my dealer days, the prevailing wisdom was "you weren't nothing until you got your first death threat", and that certainly has proven true all these years.

But one day, I got some serious enough threats from one person that it warranted contacting the WPS.

Threats also targeting my kids and my wife, and not just emails, but extremely graphic voice mails on my work phone. After he and his brothers came up to visit me, he was apparently going to cut off my balls, *then* squeeze them dry, *then* shove them up my ass. I remember that specifically cause I thought "damn, dude, get your move order straight. What good is squeezing them after they're off? Squeeze, THEN sever!"

The best part?

Criminal mastermind that he was, not only had he sent his death threats from his work email, he ended his phone message with his name and number and "call me back" -- like he wanted to go over some f***ing Excel spreadsheet before tomorrow's 9am with the boss.

Obviously, in an instant, I had everything I needed in the palm of my hand. Real name, address, personal FB page, friends and family's FB pages, you name it.

I could have gone to the police in his city, and CERTAINLY had enough to crush him on social media.

But as Chuck Norris once said in a similar position, "Yes, I could have.. but what would that have accomplished"?

Like I touched on earlier, it's very common for problem gamblers, when they lose large sums of money in a degenerate spree, and the pressure of the impending consequences of losing that money are crushing them, so they lash out at whoever they can. This was clearly the case here.

I saw that he ran his own small business. That's a tough enough line as it is, without the added stress of losing significant money gambling. He had a wife and a couple kids. Either they knew of his gambling and it was a huge strain, or they didn't know, and it could have been the last straw that ended a marriage. Trying to destroy his livelihood sure would have added to that strain.

It sure would have felt good to glut my thirst for vengeance, for a little bit at least, but what good would have come from it? Would costing him his livelihood, his marriage, and his reputation -- things I clearly would be hoping would happen when I 'called him out' no matter how much I might lie to myself otherwise -- help me in any way?

Not one damn bit.

So, I instead forwarded these emails to my client; they closed this guy's account and banned him for life, which frankly is about the best thing that could have happened to him out of this. I don't know if he just found another place to play at, but I do know I made it a bit harder.

I also framed my emails in a "see what I do for my clients? Talk about you getting your money's worth, huh? *nudge nudge*" tone, and while I'm obviously not going to deeply discuss my business dealings in public, I can confirm they continue to be a client in good standing all these years.

And I guess that's the key takeaway I want to share as it relates to Mitchell Miller.

People are obviously very angry about Miller's actions, and rightly so.

People are also fed up with bad people "tripping and falling up", so to speak. It sucks when good things happen to bad people, but boy oh boy it sure feels good when bad things happen to bad people.

And because of a combination of these emotions *and* the NHL's current sociopolitical investments, there is a very real risk of disproportionate punishment to Miller, with no desire to find a path (including one with consequences) that will allow people to make positives out of negatives.

And so remains the only position I've taken and currently intend to take regarding the sanctions against Miller: a lifetime ban from the NHL would be a disproportionate punishment, and so far, the vengeance mob has been calling for (and getting) a de facto ban not just from the NHL, but from collegiate hockey as well.

Remember: there is currently one person formally banned for life from the NHL, and that is Slava Voynov. And we all know what he did. As an adult. While a member of the league.

And you'll never, ever be able to convince me that what Miller did was remotely comparable.

.. and for god's sakes, if you're so mad at me for beating this drum that you're gonna send me hate mail, don't do it from your work email, lol.
 
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10Ducky10

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Kahun signs a one year deal with the Oilers. Great signing. Would have loved to have seen him here at that price.
 

HannuJ

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Nov 20, 2011
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Just stating out loud that Bob McKenzie said nary a word (unless i missed it) on the Arizona/Miller situation.
nothing. nadda.
add that to the list of what's wrong with hockey.

silence is complicity.
 

AlphaLackey

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Mar 21, 2013
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Just stating out loud that Bob McKenzie said nary a word (unless i missed it) on the Arizona/Miller situation.
nothing. nadda.
add that to the list of what's wrong with hockey.

silence is complicity.

Perhaps, then, we should examine the current culture that makes people terrified to speak up. As in, a culture where anything resembling nuance, or even an objectively anodyne statement (if interpreted 'correctly'), can bring drastic professional consequences if enough people get angry enough about it.
 

voyageur

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Perhaps, then, we should examine the current culture that makes people terrified to speak up. As in, a culture where anything resembling nuance, or even an objectively anodyne statement (if interpreted 'correctly'), can bring drastic professional consequences if enough people get angry enough about it.

I think a lot of people don't want to bring attention to some of the negative aspects of hockey culture. The Neepawa Natives hazing scandal got swept under the rug. Daniel Carcillo's lawsuit is something that drew attention for a day or two. Theo Fleury still isn't in the HHOF, for speaking up. Akim Aliu may have got a coach fired, but he hasn't changed the culture. With this Miller kid, he just pressed all the wrong buttons at the wrong time in history. He's going to get the Brandon Leipsic treatment now.
 

AlphaLackey

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Mar 21, 2013
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I think a lot of people don't want to bring attention to some of the negative aspects of hockey culture. The Neepawa Natives hazing scandal got swept under the rug. Daniel Carcillo's lawsuit is something that drew attention for a day or two. Theo Fleury still isn't in the HHOF, for speaking up. Akim Aliu may have got a coach fired, but he hasn't changed the culture. With this Miller kid, he just pressed all the wrong buttons at the wrong time in history. He's going to get the Brandon Leipsic treatment now.

Of the examples you listed, I have to argue that Fleury's track record of on-ice behaviour (and now, currently 'unpopular' political leaning) have as much to do with it as anything; Car-Bomb, to a lesser degree. Of course, I am absolutely not oblivious whatsoever to the root causes for both player's misbehaviour, but even while we did not know, during my days in Calgary I saw Fleury (and related, Sheldon Kennedy) get chance after chance after chance to no avail.

I think there's a significant element to what you're saying as well, but when it comes specifically to hockey media personalities thrust in the limelight, with *immense* pressure to say the right thing in the zero-tolerance right way, I stand by what I said.

Imagine if you were a hockey media person who thought that, as heinous as Miller's actions clearly are, you didn't think it was appropriate to punish him as-or-more harshly than the league punished only one other man, who literally beat a woman to within an inch of her life. How on God's green earth would you possibly articulate that, assuming you wanted to keep your job?
 
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