Around the NHL

[B U F F A L O]

[NHL]593671[/NHL]
Gustav Nyquist....Wow!

last pick in the 2008 4th round... ****ing Detroit

 

[Zman5778]

Watching the Kings/Coyotes game on NBCSN.

I like Randy Hahn and Drew Rimenda as the regular Sharks guys........but I REALLY like them when they're doing a "neutral" game......

 

[B U F F A L O]

Watching the Kings/Coyotes game on NBCSN.

I like Randy Hahn and Drew Rimenda as the regular Sharks guys........but I REALLY like them when they're doing a "neutral" game......

Agreed. Ive always enjoyed them calling games. Rimenda is a quality broadcaster.

 

[cybresabre]

[NHL]593671[/NHL]
Gustav Nyquist....Wow!

Kid has been on fire, what a year

 

[jBuds]

Kid has been on fire, what a year

Yeah he's pretty ****in fun to watch

 

[wunderpanda]

last pick in the 2008 4th round... ****ing Detroit

Doesn't fit the Murray or Nolan mold, too small, plays with too much skill.

 

[phosphene*]

Nyquist looked like a Sabre circa 7 years ago on that goal. Chara was a pylon.

 

[McCauleyChirps]

That Nyquist goal....

It's like all of Joe Louis expected magic, and they received it. Can hear the buzz as soon as he touched the puck at the blue line.

And for all you doubters on if we should let our prospects simmer in Rochester, Nyquist spent 2 full seasons in the AHL with an occasional call up.

 

[Paxon]

That Nyquist goal....

It's like all of Joe Louis expected magic, and they received it. Can hear the buzz as soon as he touched the puck at the blue line.

And for all you doubters on if we should let our prospects simmer in Rochester, Nyquist spent 2 full seasons in the AHL with an occasional call up.

That doesn't necessarily mean that Nyquist needed to be in the AHL for 2 full seasons or that he benefited from it any more than he would have playing in the NHL last season.

 

[McCauleyChirps]

That doesn't necessarily mean that Nyquist needed to be in the AHL for 2 full seasons or that he benefited from it any more than he would have playing in the NHL last season.

Well it certainly didn't hurt....

 

[Paxon]

Well it certainly didn't hurt....

Technically we don't actually know that but practically speaking, no, it didn't. Nyquist was probably ready last season, though. If you talk to their fans they're getting pretty fed up with washed-up has-beens like Bertuzzi and Cleary playing while apparent NHL-ready prospects like Tatar, Nyquist and most recently Jarnkrok stay down in the minors.

Don't get me wrong, I think going through the AHL -- for years, even -- is right for most guys, but Detroit's acting like they still have a loaded team. If not for a serious rash of injuries Nyquist may never have gotten the chance to stay up with the team.

 

[McCauleyChirps]

Technically we don't actually know that but practically speaking, no, it didn't. Nyquist was probably ready last season, though. If you talk to their fans they're getting pretty fed up with washed-up has-beens like Bertuzzi and Cleary playing while apparent NHL-ready prospects like Tatar, Nyquist and most recently Jarnkrok stay down in the minors.

Don't get me wrong, I think going through the AHL -- for years, even -- is right for most guys, but Detroit's acting like they still have a loaded team. If not for a serious rash of injuries Nyquist may never have gotten the chance to stay up with the team.

I agree that he was probably ready. I perused some threads on the Red Wings board, and the consensus was that he was ready last Spring. The only knocks against it were the shortened NHL season and the Griffs playoff run (won the Calder Cup).

 

[cybresabre]

Nyquist looked like a Sabre circa 7 years ago on that goal. Chara was a pylon.

Or like D'ags a few games ago!

 

[McCauleyChirps]

Gillis/Torts/VAN continues to be a joke.

Gillis said his VAN problems are "systematic" pointing the finger at Torts. When asked if Torts will be around, he answered, "I don't know if I'm going to be around".

 

[yahhockey]

Look how slowly they let him develop from a 2008 fourth round selection. He played three years of college before signing an ELC and playing 8 games in the AHL. That was followed by two seasons of 55+ games in the AHL with 18 and 22 games in the NHL and even 15 games in the AHL this season before sticking with the Red Wings and scoring 46 points in 51 games. That's the benefit of having enough NHL talent on the club that you can afford to keep prospects developing in the AHL instead of asking a young prospect to start living the life of a professional athlete before he is mentally or physically ready.

 

[joshjull]

That doesn't necessarily mean that Nyquist needed to be in the AHL for 2 full seasons or that he benefited from it any more than he would have playing in the NHL last season.

I would say the results speak for themselves. Whether he could have developed or not in the NHL is frankly irrelevant. He developed in the AHL and the results are what we see right now. A goal scoring pace he never achieved in the AHL until the start of this season. Its fairly obvious his confidence coming into the AHL this season was through the roof and he carried that into his NHL call up. Eventually becoming the scoring machine we see right now. He's numbers in the AHL this year (15gms 7g 14a 21pt) war much stronger than he had been in the AHL prior. Which was a ppg player that put up 22 and 23 goals.

Holland has said in the past he likes his prospects to be overripe not simply "ready" to play in the NHL.

 

[McCauleyChirps]

Totally expect Chara to just stomp on the Leafs tonight after that disaster against Nyquist last night. Literally, just squish.

 

[Heraldic]

That doesn't necessarily mean that Nyquist needed to be in the AHL for 2 full seasons or that he benefited from it any more than he would have playing in the NHL last season.

Exactly. Does someone think that Tyler Ennis would be better player if he had played his first full season this season? Or if next season would be Hodgson's first full season? Because that would be the same timeline that it has been with Nyquist.

 

[Heraldic]

I would say the results speak for themselves. Whether he could have developed or not in the NHL is frankly irrelevant. He developed in the AHL and the results are what we see right now. A goal scoring pace he never achieved in the AHL until the start of this season. Its fairly obvious his confidence coming into the AHL this season was through the roof and he carried that into his NHL call up. Eventually becoming the scoring machine we see right now. He's numbers in the AHL this year (15gms 7g 14a 21pt) war much stronger than he had been in the AHL prior. Which was a ppg player that put up 22 and 23 goals.

Holland has said in the past he likes his prospects to be overripe not simply "ready" to play in the NHL.

And that is a scoring pace that Nyquist will not be able to maintain. Or how many guys you know who have been having over 20% sh regularly?

 

[McCauleyChirps]

Exactly. Does someone think that Tyler Ennis would be better player if he had played his first full season this season? Or if next season would be Hodgson's first full season? Because that would be the same timeline that it has been with Nyquist.

Not to be pick at straws, but comparing Nyquist to Ennis/Hodgson isn't accurate. One came from CHL the other NCAA. If Ennis spent two full seasons in the AHL, his rookie NHL season would've been in 2011/12. Cody's rookie season would've been 2012/13 with two full AHL seasons.

The difference is between the CHL and NCAA, where players in the NCAA are freshman at age 18 and the CHL 1st year is 16.

 

[Paxon]

I would say the results speak for themselves. Whether he could have developed or not in the NHL is frankly irrelevant. He developed in the AHL and the results are what we see right now. A goal scoring pace he never achieved in the AHL until the start of this season. Its fairly obvious his confidence coming into the AHL this season was through the roof and he carried that into his NHL call up. Eventually becoming the scoring machine we see right now. He's numbers in the AHL this year (15gms 7g 14a 21pt) war much stronger than he had been in the AHL prior. Which was a ppg player that put up 22 and 23 goals.

Holland has said in the past he likes his prospects to be overripe not simply "ready" to play in the NHL.

What's it irrelevant to? The point you'd prefer to make over his development? Saying things like "the results speak for themselves" seems more irrelevant since you can find 100 players who spent a lot of the time in the AHL and did not develop to expectations and vice versa. The results don't speak for themselves, because there are endlessly different results.

You're speculating as to why he is having success currently which is no different than speculating as to what success he'd have under different circumstances. If you really believe he had to have started this season in the AHL to have had similar success to that which he's having now then so be it, but that isn't proven to be the case just because it's what happened. I believe Nyquist has been ready to help the Red Wings for a while and I find it unlikely his development would have been harmed if he was actually in the NHL earlier. There's no way of proving that any more than there is of proving that staying in the AHL exactly as long as he did was the only way he'd develop properly.

 

[haseoke39]

What's it irrelevant to? The point you'd prefer to make over his development? Saying things like "the results speak for themselves" seems more irrelevant since you can find 100 players who spent a lot of the time in the AHL and did not develop to expectations and vice versa. The results don't speak for themselves, because there are endlessly different results.

You're speculating as to why he is having success currently which is no different than speculating as to what success he'd have under different circumstances. If you really believe he had to have started this season in the AHL to have had similar success to that which he's having now then so be it, but that isn't proven to be the case just because it's what happened. I believe Nyquist has been ready to help the Red Wings for a while and I find it unlikely his development would have been harmed if he was actually in the NHL earlier. There's no way of proving that any more than there is of proving that staying in the AHL exactly as long as he did was the only way he'd develop properly.

Totally. He turned out well, that's all you can say, whether because of or in spite of his development path. Unless you're actually crunching numbers around the league, you can't say it proves anything. There are a million guys who stay down and never come up, and guys who skip the minors completely and do great.

 

[joshjull]

What's it irrelevant to? The point you'd prefer to make over his development? Saying things like "the results speak for themselves" seems more irrelevant since you can find 100 players who spent a lot of the time in the AHL and did not develop to expectations and vice versa. The results don't speak for themselves, because there are endlessly different results.

You're speculating as to why he is having success currently which is no different than speculating as to what success he'd have under different circumstances. If you really believe he had to have started this season in the AHL to have had similar success to that which he's having now then so be it, but that isn't proven to be the case just because it's what happened. I believe Nyquist has been ready to help the Red Wings for a while and I find it unlikely his development would have been harmed if he was actually in the NHL earlier. There's no way of proving that any more than there is of proving that staying in the AHL exactly as long as he did was the only way he'd develop properly.

The summation of you "arguments" is he could have played in the NHL last year and may have turned out the same. My point is who cares and its irrelevant because he turned out fine, great really. Its like you are looking for something to argue about and picked this meaningless point to go on about.

I didn't make any grand claims about development in general beyond Holland's stated preference with players.

EDIT: My only thoughts on development that I've stated recently where laid out in another thread (about Grigs). Players develop at their own pace and it can't be rushed or forced.

 

[joshjull]

And that is a scoring pace that Nyquist will not be able to maintain. Or how many guys you know who have been having over 20% sh regularly?

I don't expect him to maintained that. Nor is that the point.

 

[Paxon]

The summation of you "arguments" is he could have played in the NHL last year and may have turned out the same. My point is who cares and its irrelevant because he turned out fine, great really. Its like you are looking for something to argue about and picked this meaningless point to go on about.

I didn't make any grand claims about development in general beyond Holland's stated preference with players.

EDIT: My only thoughts on development that I've stated recently where laid out in another thread (about Grigs). Players develop at their own pace and it can't be rushed or forced.

That is not the summation of my "arguments" and if you think it is then that just goes to show you aren't following along. I made my comment in response to the idea that Nyquist shows that his developmental path works. I say it doesn't necessarily indicate anything, but more importantly I say I believe tthat he could/should have been up with the Red Wings earlier. You say "who cares" because he has developed fine now (which actually remains to be seen since he's a rookie). I say Red Wings fans did and do care because their coach continually gives big minutes to terrible veterans and it hurts the team. Nyquist should have made the team out of camp because he was one of the best players in the organization and he was ready for the NHL. It's not rocket science. Like I said, the Red Wings are no longer a team deep with quality veterans.

I find it a bit irritating that you keep saying things like "who cares" or that what I'm saying is irrelevant, as if there was some established conversation I was taking off track. Someone made a comment about Nyquist's development. I talked about the current state of the Red Wings, how I thought Nyquist should have been in the NHL earlier, and how his success doesn't necessarily mean he shouldn't have been. Now you're going on about how it is irrelevant to who knows what and telling me I'm looking to start an argument.

Let's say Grigorenko's game last night was the starting point of a strong performance throughout an Amerks playoff run. He has a great camp next year and makes the team, putting up 45 points and decent all-around play. The following season he emerges as a star. Who is going to say "the results speak for themselves"? That'd be absurd.