Around the NHL: Part XXXIII

[Leonardo87]

I have no idea why Turcotte went as high as he did either.

I dunno. But I think this year’s draft will be interesting. Plenty of very good players in the Top 6 or so, who can really help a franchise move to the next step, but there really is no set 1OA or 2OA, unless they are making Beniers the clear 1OA? Or Owen Power? It’s pretty damn close.

 

[archanfelnsx]

Love seeing Alec Martinez walking off the ice on the losing end. Absolutely….LOVE…IT!

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Other than my tongue in cheek comment have you ever seen a Ranger fan insult Hughes? We mostly think they will both be good players and different type of players. We don't call Hughes anything like Krappa or Laf Laugh.

Not you personally, but go back and read any Rangers GDT when we play the Devils. Half of the posts are saying Hughes sucks, is smug or is a little whimp.

The difference is our posts are out of jealousy. Not sure where theirs come from, but it’s probably insecurity/immaturity.

I know people tend to have short memories on this forum, but come on now. We are every bit as guilty in this debate.

 

[rangersfansince08]

I dunno. But I think this year’s draft will be interesting. Plenty of very good players in the Top 6 or so, who can really help a franchise move to the next step, but there really is no set 1OA or 2OA, unless they are making Beniers the clear 1OA? Or Owen Power? It’s pretty damn close.

Thought it was Clarke.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Not you personally, but go back and read any Rangers GDT when we play the Devils. Half of the posts are saying Hughes sucks, is smug or is a little whimp.

I know people tend to have short memories on this forum, but come on now. We are every bit as guilty in this debate.

I mean...these things are true.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Not you personally, but go back and read any Rangers GDT when we play the Devils. Half of the posts are saying Hughes sucks, is smug or is a little whimp.

I know people tend to have short memories on this forum, but come on now. We are every bit as guilty in this debate.

That's a good point. I just see insults in GDT as a bit different than a thread about Hughes on the main board where the subject of the thread is now Kakko.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

I mean...these things are true.

What about Hughes is smug? Do we call Lafreniere smug when he goes crazy anytime his teammate scores a goal? Hubris and confidence should not be confused with smugness. Nail Yakupov is smug.

What about Hughes is wimpy? Is it the fact that he is small - something he can’t help? Kakko, all 6 additional inches of him, doesn’t have a single ounce more sandpaper than Hughes does. Do we call him wimpy?

The true answer is none of these guys are smug or wimpy. We just happen to be jealous of a superb young player brimming with confidence. That’s okay - we have like 12 players Devils fans should be jealous about.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

That's a good point. I just see insults in GDT as a bit different than a thread about Hughes on the main board where the subject of the thread is now Kakko.

Fair enough!

 

[rangersfansince08]

What about Hughes is smug? Do we call Lafreniere smug when he goes crazy anytime his teammate scores a goal? Hubris and confidence should not be confused with smugness. Nail Yakupov is smug.

What about Hughes is wimpy? Is it the fact that he is small - something he can’t help? Kakko, all 6 additional inches of him, doesn’t have a single ounce more sandpaper than Hughes does. Do we call him wimpy?

We do indeed seem to call Kakko soft.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

I’ll give you guys the temper tantrum he had when that penalty was called on him. That was unacceptable.

Would still trade any player on our team other than Fox and *maybe* Laf for Hughes though.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

What about Hughes is smug? Do we call Lafreniere smug when he goes crazy anytime his teammate scores a goal? Hubris and confidence should not be confused with smugness. Nail Yakupov is smug.

What about Hughes is wimpy? Is it the fact that he is small - something he can’t help? Kakko, all 6 additional inches of him, doesn’t have a single ounce more sandpaper than Hughes does. Do we call him wimpy?

The true answer is none of these guys are smug or wimpy. We just happen to be jealous of a superb young player brimming with confidence. That’s okay - we have like 12 players Devils fans should be jealous about.

Oh but he does, unless you think sandpaper is pushing people after whistles in which case sure, they're the same.

I watched Hughes get walloped by one of our players twice and then proceed to shrink and do nothing for the rest of those games. When we gave him space, he caused Havok. When he got hit, he disappeared.

I guess you forgot the little tantrum he threw after he took a penalty the last time we played them.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Oh but he does, unless you think sandpaper is pushing people after whistles in which case sure, they're the same.

I watched Hughes get walloped by one of our players twice and then proceed to shrink and do nothing for the rest of those games. When we gave him space, he caused Havok. When he got hit, he disappeared.

I guess you forgot the little tantrum he threw after he took a penalty the last time we played them.

Is there anything to back this up? Like did his xGF just shrink after getting hit?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Is there anything to back this up? Like did his xGF just shrink after getting hit?

I'm sure you can go back and track it but I can tell you with 100% certainty that he did nothing after getting hit both times. He got belted by Hajek too, who never hits anyone.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Oh but he does, unless you think sandpaper is pushing people after whistles in which case sure, they're the same.

I watched Hughes get walloped by one of our players twice and then proceed to shrink and do nothing for the rest of those games. When we gave him space, he caused Havok. When he got hit, he disappeared.

I guess you forgot the little tantrum he threw after he took a penalty the last time we played them.

I guess you missed the post I made right before this one, where I clearly acknowledged the temper tantrum.

Our guys did absolutely nothing to deter Hughes when we played the Devils. I’m not sure what game you were watching. He torched our entire team all season long. It was so bad it looked like we were intentionally trying to boost his stats.

Jack Hughes might be small, but he’s not a wimp. The guy gets hit, gets up and commands the puck again. We can continue to imagine him as this incredibly flawed player though if it makes us all feel better.

 

[rangersfansince08]

I guess you missed the post I made right before this one, where I clearly acknowledged the temper tantrum.

Our guys did absolutely nothing to deter Hughes when we played the Devils. I’m not sure what game you were watching. He torched our entire team all season long. It was so bad it looked like we were intentionally trying to boost his stats.

Yea I remember that line dominating us. Maybe that stopped after the hit in which case why didn't;t they hit him earlier?

 

[Richard Banger]

Yes, several levels ahead, Pal.

Watch him play instead of just looking at the stats. Guy is dynamic out there. It’s alarming that even after those four games against the Devils, where he was handily the best player for either team, there are still posters that question his ability.

To be clear, the Rangers are in a far far better place personnel-wise than the Devils. But we’re just as collectively guilty when it comes to immaturity and mental gymnastics in the Hughes vs Kakko debate.

Hughes:
897 Mins
56.7% CF
ATOI: 19:04
+/- -3
Giveaway/Takeaway difference: -18

Kakko:
623 Mins
53.9 CF
ATOI: 14:21
+/- +3
Giveaway/Takeway Difference: +20

Kakko played less time while being a more impactful player

Hughes is not several levels ahead of Kakko lmao.


And if you are a eye test guy I have never seen Hughes physically dominate a shift like Kakko has. Kakko will be the better player and on top of that the devils won’t even have a player comparatively similar to Laf.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Hughes:
897 Mins
56.7% CF
ATOI: 19:04
+/- -3
Giveaway/Takeaway difference: -18

Kakko:
623 Mins
53.9 CF
ATOI: 14:21
+/- +3
Giveaway/Takeway Difference: +20

Kakko played less time while being a more impactful player

Hughes is not several levels ahead of Kakko lmao.


And if you are a eye test guy I have never seen Hughes physically dominate a shift like Kakko has. Kakko will be the better player and on top of that the devils won’t even have a player comparatively similar to Laf.

Hughes has def dominated shifts. Not in the same way of course.

 

[Kaapo Bustfreniere]

That thread on the main board is full of overgrown children being so salty they would turn Lake Michingan into Dead Sea just by taking a short swim in it.

EDIT: I like this so much I am going to use it over there.

 

[rangersfansince08]

That thread on the main board is full of overgrown children being so salty they would turn Lake Michingan into Dead Sea just by taking a short swim in it.

EDIT: I like this so much I am going to use it over there.

Mostly Wings fans. probably salty over losing the lottery.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Hughes has def dominated shifts. Not in the same way of course.

Yup, mostly in the last cluster of games though.

Even in his "dominant" 3 point effort at the beginning of the season, he ended up in the red of xGF%. That happened 4 times out of the 8 games they played this year.

Also for all the slobbering of Hughes in here, he was marginally more productive than Lafreinere at ES in almost 200 more minutes, and thats only because Hughes actually played 4v4 (Laf actually outproduced him 5v5.)

 

[rangersfansince08]

Yup, mostly in the last cluster of games though.

Even in his "dominant" 3 point effort at the beginning of the season, he ended up in the red of xGF%. That happened 4 times out of the 8 games they played this year.

Also for all the slobbering of Hughes in here, he was marginally more productive than Lafreinere at ES in almost 200 more minutes, and thats only because Hughes actually played 4v4 (Laf actually outproduced him 5v5.)

Hughes vs Kakko is a debate. I think many of us think Laf will end up being better than Hughes. Doesn't make sense to debate that imo.

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

Hughes:
897 Mins
56.7% CF
ATOI: 19:04
+/- -3
Giveaway/Takeaway difference: -18

Kakko:
623 Mins
53.9 CF
ATOI: 14:21
+/- +3
Giveaway/Takeway Difference: +20

Kakko played less time while being a more impactful player

Hughes is not several levels ahead of Kakko lmao.


And if you are a eye test guy I have never seen Hughes physically dominate a shift like Kakko has. Kakko will be the better player and on top of that the devils won’t even have a player comparatively similar to Laf.

Im confused. Didn’t you just post stats above that show Hughes had a stronger CF than Kakko? You also left out that part where Hughes scored 14 more points. How was Kakko more impactful? I’d love to see those quality of competition metrics as well. I’d wager Hughes played in much less favorable matchups throughout the year.

Only in Kaapo Kakko land is giveaway/takeaway ratio so important. Jack Hughes gives away the puck more because it’s literally on his stick the entire time he’s on the ice.

Keep moving those goalposts though!

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Im confused. Didn’t you just post stats above that show Hughes had a stronger CF than Kakko? You also left out that part where Hughes scored 14 more points. How was Kakko more impactful? I’d love to see those quality of competition metrics as well. I’d wager Hughes played in much less favorable matchups throughout the year.

Only in Kaapo Kakko land is giveaway/takeaway ratio so important. Jack Hughes gives away the puck more because it’s literally on his stick the entire time he’s on the ice.

Keep moving those goalposts though!

You would be wrong.

Kakko played 33% of his ice time against what would be considered elite level competition to Hughes' 29.6.

In fact, Hughes played 43.5 of his ice time vs the bottom 2 lines of other teams (compared to 34% for Kakko.)

 

[ThirdEye]

Im confused. Didn’t you just post stats above that show Hughes had a stronger CF than Kakko? You also left out that part where Hughes scored 14 more points. How was Kakko more impactful? I’d love to see those quality of competition metrics as well. I’d wager Hughes played in much less favorable matchups throughout the year.

Only in Kaapo Kakko land is giveaway/takeaway ratio so important. Jack Hughes gives away the puck more because it’s literally on his stick the entire time he’s on the ice.

Keep moving those goalposts though!

I agree that Hughes is clearly the better player now but he's not *much* better. Production wise - Kakko produced 1 point per 40 min vs Hughes' 1 per 34 min all while getting significantly less PP time. Hughes is a better skater so he looks more dangerous shift to shift. Defensively there is no comparison. To me they aren't too far apart

 

[ColonialsHockey10]

You would be wrong.

Kakko played 33% of his ice time against what would be considered elite level competition to Hughes' 29.6.

In fact, Hughes played 43.5 of his ice time vs the bottom 2 lines of other teams (compared to 34% for Kakko.)

Fair enough. Thanks for pulling that stat. Very surprising.

Still doesn’t change that the selective stats in the OP don’t support Kakko being a better player than Hughes. Giveaway to takeaway ratio does not make a player.