Around the NHL: Part XX

[eco's bones]

And I get that, but I don't get the "anyone could score in the 1980s" argument. Gretzky still outscored the entire league by 200+ goals at minimum in that decade

It was a lot more wide open back then and the Oilers were the team that knocked the Islanders off their pedestal. The Islanders played a kind of controlled game. They were about winning zone after zone and they always had great depth throughout their lineup. The Oilers had a blitzkrieg approach. Gretzky and his 200 point seasons--no one's every going to touch that again I don't think. But there's also other factors like goalie equipment and coaching. Different eras bring different things and evolution is always ongoing. That Gretzky era was kind of the perfect storm for offense. It wasn't unusual for the Oilers to put up 10 goals in a game back then. Don't remember exactly what year but Darryl Sittler once put up 10 points in a game. It was the late 70's or early 80's. These days your bottom 6 forwards have to skate and they have to check or they don't last.

 

[egelband]

And despite that, nobody even came close to Gretzky in the 80s in both points and goals. He had a 65+ point lead in the league for 6 straight seasons. This notion that "it was easier to score in the 80s so Gretzky would struggle today" only makes sense if other players in the same era were even close to Gretzky. They weren't.

1981: 163. Dionne in 2nd with 135 (+27)
1982: 212. Bossy in 2nd with 147 (+65)
1983: 196. Stastny in 2nd with 124 (+72)
1984: 205. Coffey in 2nd with 126 (+79)
1985: 208. Kurri in 2nd with 135 (+73)
1986: 215. Lemieux in 2nd with 141 (+74)
1987: 183. Kurri in 2nd with 108 (+75)

He led the league in goals in most of those seasons as well. You're not wrong that Ovechkin plays in an era where it's harder to score, but I feel the "anyone could score in the 80s" argument is used a lot to discredit/diminish the achievements of players like Gretzky. Not saying you're doing that here, but I always feel the urge to mention the above stats when it comes up haha.

Throughout the 1980s, Gretzky led the league in goals with 677, with Jari Kurri in 2nd place with 474, over 200 goals behind Gretzky. Sure, you could "wish the puck into the net" but nobody wished the puck into the net more than Gretzky, and by a large margin (almost 50% more than the guy in 2nd place)

Ovechkin is, in my opinion, a better goal-scorer because Gretzky was just a more complete player. Ovechkin was a pure sniper most of his NHL career and has in recent years improved his overall game.

Excellent points. Also, not coincidentally, in three of those seven years the number two scorer played regularly with Gretzky. He was truly dominant.

 

[GoAwayGiannone]

I would stake my soul that Gretzky probably would have hit 1000 goals or close if he simply "chose" to score more. I bet he would've rather see his teammates succeed as well than to pot a goal or two every game.

 

[NYR94]

And I get that, but I don't get the "anyone could score in the 1980s" argument. Gretzky still outscored the entire league by 200+ goals at minimum in that decade

I've never liked that argument either. Always felt like a way for posters to diminish the accomplishments of players in the 80s to make them look worse compared to other more recent players. All you had to do was watch Gretzky play to know how off the charts his hockey sense was.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I've never liked that argument either. Always felt like a way for posters to diminish the accomplishments of players in the 80s to make them look worse compared to other more recent players. All you had to do was watch Gretzky play to know how off the charts his hockey sense was.

Not even his own linemates could keep up with his scoring. That's how good he was

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

With Lundqvist potentially nearing the end of his career, let's look back at another legendary goalie:

Top 8 David Ayres Careers Saves

Brilliant.

 

[Lua]

Go Sens go...

EDIT: OK, I don't think they're coming through for us tonight

EDIT: OK, I'm leaving this up so if the Sens blow it for us I at least get the satisfaction of being right

 

[Inferno]

Anyone else floored that the avs basically did nothing

Sakic just never going to go for it?

This is the weakest the west had ever been.. you never know when you'll be back here... Windows close so quickly.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Anyone else floored that the avs basically did nothing

Sakic just never going to go for it?

This is the weakest the west had ever been.. you never know when you'll be back here... Windows close so quickly.

Reads to me like Sakic wanted Kreider and when he re-signed, he just said f*** it and stand pat (aside from Vlad)

 

[Black Aces]

Reads to me like Sakic wanted Kreider and when he re-signed, he just said f*ck it and stand pat (aside from Vlad)

if he wanted him then he should have paid up. Rather have signed Kreider then traded him for the packages that were speculated/rumored

 

[NYR94]

Anyone else floored that the avs basically did nothing

Sakic just never going to go for it?

This is the weakest the west had ever been.. you never know when you'll be back here... Windows close so quickly.

I am. The thing I don't understand is exactly where is their defensive depth? They're one injury on defense away from having Barberio in the lineup. And they traded D Calle Rosen today too. We've seen really good teams get cut down in the playoffs when they couldn't overcome injuries on defense.

 

[darko]

Anyone else floored that the avs basically did nothing

Sakic just never going to go for it?

This is the weakest the west had ever been.. you never know when you'll be back here... Windows close so quickly.

Yup. Not sure what he's thinking.

 

[eco's bones]

If Colorado had put up Newhook I think a deal would have been interesting enough to do. It's not like Jost is a terrible player and he's still young but he doesn't look like he's going to be a top 6 forward and a late 1st well that could turn out really well for sure but also maybe not or maybe it's wait 3/4 years and then you have another 3rd line player. Not to knock 3rd line players but to move on from Kreider I would want someone who had at least a really good shot at being a top 6 forward and Newhook is that guy for Colorado and Jost, Kaut, Bowers not so much. Some people blink when push comes to shove and that happened to Chicago today on the Lehner deal with Vegas and Sakic is one guy who is tough to deal with and he will try to get a team to blink.

I'm not crazy with 7 years with Kreider. I'd prefer 5---6 would have been okay. I expected a bigger $ amount though--that's less than a $2 mil raise. He's a great team guy and he's been playing fantastic with Mika. Moving Skjei makes cap considerations next year a lot easier---does hurt the LD though but I think cap wise we're going to be alright.

Far as the rebuild---we're the youngest team in the league--we've got tons of prospects in Hartford, Europe, College, a couple in the CHL--we've got 19 draft picks in the next two drafts including 3 1st rounders. We're not off the rebuild track.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Wowzers. I suspect Bergevin may be moving all over the draft board this June...

great draft for a boat load of picks.

 

[ohbaby]

You're not wrong that Ovechkin plays in an era where it's harder to score, but I feel the "anyone could score in the 80s" argument is used a lot to discredit/diminish the achievements of players like Gretzky.

I always wondered about this also. I have recently, looked back at some the highlights of this era, mainly of Gretzky's high scoring games. And it is just not the same as now. Most goalies used a stand up style. Hardly any butterfly's. And their padding was minimal. So if all those back then played now, they wouldn't score like they did. Of course Gret's would still lead the pack against those he played against. But it is hard to compare them to the players now. Because with the changes in goalie styles and equipment, the forwards today absolutely need to be that much better to be prolific scorers.

Not to mention the defensives structures are better now also. There is no room to breathe on the ice. And if you look at those past highlights, they had all kinds of room to make plays.

 

[NYR Viper]

Let’s go Columbus! Win this game and push the Canes out of a playoff spot, at least for an evening.

We all should be rooting for the Panthers to improve and go on a run. Push the Leafs out of a playoff spot

 

[ohbaby]

I would stake my soul that Gretzky probably would have hit 1000 goals or close if he simply "chose" to score more. I bet he would've rather see his teammates succeed as well than to pot a goal or two every game.

The guy has more goals than anyone in the game. Had 90+ in one season. Hard to make the argument,.. if he simply chose to score more.

 

[ohbaby]

With Lundqvist potentially nearing the end of his career, let's look back at another legendary goalie:

Top 8 David Ayres Careers Saves

This is too funny. LOL

 

[will1066]

Caps pick up Kovalchuk from Canadiens for a third rd pick...

I expected Konowalchuk.

 

[darko]

Let’s go Columbus! Win this game and push the Canes out of a playoff spot, at least for an evening.

We all should be rooting for the Panthers to improve and go on a run. Push the Leafs out of a playoff spot

Can't see Canes missing the playoffs. They got better with today's additions.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Can't see Canes missing the playoffs. They got better with today's additions.

They are still questionable in goal.

 

[Tawnos]

Can't see Canes missing the playoffs. They got better with today's additions.

On paper. That’s a lot of change for an established group to deal with.

 

[Tob]

Anyone else floored that the avs basically did nothing

Sakic just never going to go for it?

This is the weakest the west had ever been.. you never know when you'll be back here... Windows close so quickly.

This is a Sakic that took 2.5 years to trade Matt Duchene. He's never going to buy on anything.

 

[NYSPORTS]

It was a lot more wide open back then and the Oilers were the team that knocked the Islanders off their pedestal. The Islanders played a kind of controlled game. They were about winning zone after zone and they always had great depth throughout their lineup. The Oilers had a blitzkrieg approach..

that Islander team could beat the daylights out of opponents on the boards. Winning the Cup is a long season and the Drive for 5 was playing about 9.5 months a year (including preseason/camp) for 5 straight years. That’s insane and they had nothing left. Islanders may have fell off their pedestal.

at their best I would like to say the Oilers were better yet I’m not positive.

 

[ohbaby]

CBJ has lost their last 8 and still gained 5 pts in the standings with these OT's and shootouts. Looks like they might lose another tonight and still gain another point. It's 3-3 with 10 to go in the 3rd vs OTT.