OT: Around the NHL 2021-22: So it begins...

[Pittsburgh1776]

So Paul Vincent should never coach again right?

I don’t really want anyone involved to be in this league anymore, but we can start with the people who did nothing or actively covered it up. It’s a privilege to be in the NHL. I’m fine with the league finally acting like it. These aren’t differences of opinion, this is sexual assault and the abuse of children.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don’t really want anyone involved to be in this league anymore, but we can start with the people who did nothing or actively covered it up. It’s a privilege to be in the NHL. I’m fine with the league finally acting like it. These aren’t differences of opinion, this is sexual assault and the abuse of children.

So Paul Vincent who was in a leadership position as defined by his job title did not do anything and even though Beach called him a hero he should be punished.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

So Paul Vincent who was in a leadership position as defined by his job title did not do anything and even though Beach called him a hero he should be punished.

He didn’t do anything? You might want to review the facts of the case.

 

[Gurglesons]

He didn’t do anything? You might want to review the facts of the case.

He did exactly what the other execs are reported to have done. He passed the buck.

 

[K Fleur]

Toews being viewed as the better leader than Sid for half the last decade.

So you’re saying the vitriol here is in response to a Crosby slight? Maybe a little bit. But a lot of it is just how damning that report paints the Blackhawks culture even down to its players. And Toews as a supposed leader of that group of players who openly mocked a sexual assault victim is just awful.

I think Toews is not high up on the list of blame but he deserves every bit of the hate he is getting right now for being a coward

 

[Gurglesons]

So you’re saying the vitriol here is in response to a Crosby slight? Maybe a little bit. But a lot of it is just how damning that report paints the Blackhawks culture even down to its players. And Toews as a supposed leader of that group of players who openly mocked a sexual assault victim is just awful.

We have no idea if Toews heard those comments. If he heard those comments again I think he should be punished, but how are we really going to prove that.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

I don’t see vitriol. I see valid criticism of a bad leader.

Pixies I’m not going to argue with you about the responsibilities of leaders to do the right thing. This isn’t a tragedy, it’s not an accident, it wasn’t a mistake. These were lies and coverups and a shitty lockerroom culture that mocked the victim of sexual abuse. Dress it up how you want. Childrens’ lives have been ruined because of moral cowardice and all around shitty people.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don’t see vitriol. I see valid criticism of a bad leader.

Pixies I’m not going to argue with you about the responsibilities of leaders to do the right thing. This isn’t a tragedy, it’s not an accident, it wasn’t a mistake. These were lies and coverups and a shitty lockerroom culture that mocked the victim of sexual abuse. Dress it up how you want. Childrens’ lives have been ruined because of moral cowardice and all around shitty people.

Paul Vincent who Beach recognized as a hero was celebrating hand in hand with Aldrich after their cup win.

You want blood and you want a black and world circumstance. That is fine, but it is naive.

The world is structured in a way where individuals need to go to the authorities. I’m not blaming Beach, but that is part of the reason Aldrich was able to leave the organization. Obviously, you would hope his management would facilitate the process to speak with the authorities instead of blaming him for the incident, but that didn’t happen.

 

[K Fleur]

I don’t see vitriol. I see valid criticism of a bad leader.

Pixies I’m not going to argue with you about the responsibilities of leaders to do the right thing. This isn’t a tragedy, it’s not an accident, it wasn’t a mistake. These were lies and coverups and a shitty lockerroom culture that mocked the victim of sexual abuse. Dress it up how you want. Childrens’ lives have been ruined because of moral cowardice and all around shitty people.

Vitriol was not the best word by me. Plain “anger” would have been better

 

[Gurglesons]

Vitriol was not the best word by me. Plain “anger” would have been better

I think it fair to have anger over the situation. But I see no reason to have anything but disappointment in our system that forces people to hide behind legal statements versus being earnest.

 

[Gurglesons]

For the record yet another player saying he was not aware.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Paul Vincent who Beach recognized as a hero was celebrating hand in hand with Aldrich after their cup win.

You want blood and you want a black and world circumstance. That is fine, but it is naive.

The world is structure in a way where individuals need to go to the authorities. I’m not blaming Beach, but that is part of the reason Aldrich was able to leave the organization.

I mean, I’ve been in positions where I have had to render judgements and consequences. Justice is not revenge or ‘blood’, it is society’s last line of defense for keeping order and deterring future behavior when morality and moral courage fails.

Justice is not a one-size fits all concept. But I would absolutely understand if the NHL decided it wanted to wash its hands of the entire leadership group. I doubt that will happen but we’ll see.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, I’ve been in positions where I have had to render judgements and consequences. Justice is not revenge or ‘blood’, it is society’s last line of defense for keeping order and deterring future behavior when morality and moral courage fails.

Justice is not a one-size fits all concept. But I would absolutely understand if the NHL decided it wanted to wash its hands of the entire leadership group. I doubt that will happen but we’ll see.

Your assumption is that everyone in leadership was immediately onboard with Beach’s allegations being valid. Aldrich stated he had a consensual relationship with him.

This is why third parties investigating these claims are so crucial because they do not have relationships.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Your assumption is that everyone in leadership was immediately onboard with Beach’s allegations being valid. Aldrich stated he had a consensual relationship with him.

This is why third parties investigating these claims are so crucial because they do not have relationships.

They did not investigate, they buried it for three weeks to focus on the playoffs.

It’s not my assumption, it’s not their job to decide whether it’s valid or not. It was their job to investigate and remove the alleged predator from his position until an investigation was concluded.

 

[Gurglesons]

They did not investigate, they buried it for three weeks to focus on the playoffs.

It’s not my assumption, it’s not their job to decide whether it’s valid or not. It was their job to investigate and remove the alleged predator from his position until an investigation was concluded.

No, it isn’t. And you are correct about the investigation point.

You never suspend individuals due to allegations unless you absolutely need to.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Hate Torts the coach, but basically everything I've seen him say while removed from his role as a coach has been top notch. His work with children's charities with the Rangers, his stuff about Matiss, this, etc.

He's right. Cut the bullshit. Somebody step up and actually do something beyond half-assed forms being filed to HR or some other crap that barely covers the absolute, bare minimum and gives them an out like "Well whaddaya want me to do?!"

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Honestly? Real talk? I think the NHL has a real "blue wall of silence" thing going on. Regardless of the circumstances, I'd be shocked if anyone stood up and really took those responsible to task in the media. They're all simply too happy to toe the company line and refuse to cannibalize their own.

This is a situation where it's not enough to simply stand by, you're gonna need a public showing of support, and in a meaningful way--not just some random PR gibberish about "Yeah, well, it's an awful situation. I hope the best for Beach." I don't think it'll happen though, not for a second. There'll be some uncomfortable questions thrown around and some uncomfortable, half-answers/statements given. It'll go away in a week and the NHL is betting on that. Then, in three, or five, or ten years, everybody will all be right back here being stunned by another revelation of sexual abuse, or homophobia, or racism, and people will act like it came out of nowhere in the squeaky clean™ world of hockey culture.

League is full of cowards.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

No, it isn’t. And you are correct about the investigation point.

You never suspend individuals due to allegations unless you absolutely need to.

It depends on the processes of the organization, but when someone is accused of sexual assault you don’t allow them to come to work and potentially assault others. This isn’t a filing error, it’s sexual assault. But as we know they didn’t investigate and an intern was sexually harassed as a result.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We can say what we want about Torts but what I do know about him from what I've seen is that he stands up for his players and while he may be a blow hard at times, I'm glad he's not holding back.

 

[Gurglesons]

It depends on the processes of the organization, but when someone is accused of sexual assault you don’t allow them to come to work and potentially assault others. This isn’t a filing error, it’s sexual assault. But as we know they didn’t investigate and an intern was sexually harassed as a result.

Yes you do. I’ve allowed it multiple times.

You act on what you can substantiate at the time. If someone has been accused and you don’t have enough to substantiate you allow the accused to work and hopefully find a way to separate them and the victim.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

For the record yet another player saying he was not aware.

Peculiar how pretty much only current players in the League claim to not have known, while ones who have left say the locker room knew

 

[dogthateats]

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

He's gonna be allowed to keep coaching, isn't he?

Pelt the dude with hot dogs and beers if he ever shows up behind the bench again, imo.

 

[Gurglesons]

We can say what we want about Torts but what I do know about him from what I've seen is that he stands up for his players and while he may be a blow hard at times, I'm glad he's not holding back.

He’s also the type of jackass who said his players couldn’t do a political act during the anthem.

 

[dogthateats]

For the record yet another player saying he was not aware.

It seems like the players that are still playing in the NHL are the deniers.