Around the NHL 2020-21

[Porter Stoutheart]

Let's see if we can capitalize on a couple divisional "breaks". Sounds like we might get Dallas first after their layoff on Jan. 22? Not to jinx anything, but you'd have to think our 5th game vs. their 1st should be advantage:us. Plus they're going to have a more compressed schedule the rest of the way. Although they might have fewer Covid interruptions after this than anybody else, so that advantage could flip.

And then reading the stuff with Dubois and Tortorella... well... I can't see that as a good thing for Columbus.

I sort of automatically assume Tampa and Carolina are in. But that meant we'd have to jump one of Columbus or Dallas.

(Watch this crazy league invert in some weird way though such that none of these pre season presumptions holds any water).

 

[Scoresberg]

Turris blocking shots in Edmonton. Never thought I’d live to see the day..

 

[Armourboy]

Turris blocking shots in Edmonton. Never thought I’d live to see the day..

It won't last.

 

[BigFatCat999]

I am watching the TML v Ottawa game:

a) Ottawa looks good
b) so Fing weird to see Watson there but (Name I can't spell even with his jersey in front of me) is a little prick
c) cue TML fans meltdown in 3...2....

 

[BigFatCat999]

and Watson and Simmonds are chattering

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Avs got whacked Wednesday, Blues getting whacked back tonight (and we don't have to deal with either of them!), and the Leafs still don't have anything resmbling an NHL defense. God did I miss hockey. Bonus points for the Islanders blowing out the Rangers last night.

 

[PredsV82]

Watson scored for Ottawa. Hope he does well and can earn another contract.

 

[Scoresberg]

Blues getting destroyed warms my heart.

 

[Kat Predator]

It won't last.

If he can't be successful with what he had here, it's hard to see Archibald and Puljujarvi being a huge step up in talent.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

If he can't be successful with what he had here, it's hard to see Archibald and Puljujarvi being a huge step up in talent.

I think a lot of it was ultimately mental for him here. He WAS successful when he was our de facto 2nd line center in his first year. I imagine his mindset in being traded for, signed to 6-year deal, parked as the 2nd line center, all that made it harder for him to accept what came after. And then the rug was pulled out from under his feet and I don't think he ever recovered, mentally. Maybe it will go much differently for him coming in to Edmonton under completely different circumstances, bought out, desperate, signed to more of a show-me afterthought type of contract, slated for a 3rd line role.

 

[Kat Predator]

I think a lot of it was ultimately mental for him here. He WAS successful when he was our de facto 2nd line center in his first year. I imagine his mindset in being traded for, signed to 6-year deal, parked as the 2nd line center, all that made it harder for him to accept what came after. And then the rug was pulled out from under his feet and I don't think he ever recovered, mentally. Maybe it will go much differently for him coming in to Edmonton under completely different circumstances, bought out, desperate, signed to more of a show-me afterthought type of contract, slated for a 3rd line role.

Yeah, in 17-18 he came in and was the #2C between Fiala and Smith. They established a lot of chemistry quickly and was an asset on that Presidents Trophy team.

In 18-19, he got injured and missed time twice that season. The entire line came unglued. Lavi bounced Fiala up and down the lines (Poile eventually trading him). It was one of the Turris' worst seasons statistically in his career.

In 19-20, the writing was on the wall that the Preds were moving on from Turris. Duchene was landed to give them a 1A and 1B set of centers (on paper) and that left Turris as a spare part that didn't slot into the lineup. Lavi had seen enough and the $6M contract sat in the press box for a while. Hynes gave Turris playing time including on special teams, and he improved off 18-19 to have another lower water mark career wise.

He's not a truly terrible player, but he wasn't worth the contract Poile gifted him. He can be frustrating to watch when he misses wide open goals, makes lazy passes, etc. In summary, he's a decent all-around center [I think Lavi was right that he's basically useless as a winger] who can contribute, but nothing really stands out as "wow!" in his game (creativity, skating, shot, tenacity, hustle, physicality, ... are just kind of average on balance). [In terms of this off-season, he is not hard to play against.]

I'd say the Oilers agree. They signed him to be a #3C and some emergency depth just in case. They also pay him less money to play than the Preds are paying him to not play.

 

[Scoresberg]

The future for Turris depends on whether he's able to mold his playing style to a more defensive one better suited for a bottom-six role. He's not a top-six forward for a respectable team anymore.

If he puts in the work and is able to modify his style, he will have a future of some kind in the NHL. If he can't, he's toast after the Edmonton contract.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

The future for Turris depends on whether he's able to mold his playing style to a more defensive one better suited for a bottom-six role. He's not a top-six forward for a respectable team anymore.

If he puts in the work and is able to modify his style, he will have a future of some kind in the NHL. If he can't, he's toast after the Edmonton contract.

Or, he's only a top-6 forward in an extenuating circumstance where his wingers are the real drivers, anyway. I will say he looked totally fine for us in his first year, looked totally fine with Mantha in the WC, looked totally fine with Stone in OTT, etc. And hasn't yet lost any of his skillset due to any age decline.

I don't like him as a player, but that's more because of his "softness" and dependency on his wingers. But I guess to be charitable, I feel like he can still be a 2C somewhere if somebody was truly that desperate. It just sucks for us that we were THAT desperate at a certain point in time. And then we weren't only a couple seasons later, with no recourse to that horrific contract we signed him to.

 

[Scoresberg]

Or, he's only a top-6 forward in an extenuating circumstance where his wingers are the real drivers, anyway. I will say he looked totally fine for us in his first year, looked totally fine with Mantha in the WC, looked totally fine with Stone in OTT, etc. And hasn't yet lost any of his skillset due to any age decline.

I don't like him as a player, but that's more because of his "softness" and dependency on his wingers. But I guess to be charitable, I feel like he can still be a 2C somewhere if somebody was truly that desperate. It just sucks for us that we were THAT desperate at a certain point in time. And then we weren't only a couple seasons later, with no recourse to that horrific contract we signed him to.

Agree to disagree. I don't see him as a 2C even with strong wingers. He lost a ton of foot speed with those injuries in 18-19, he's not nearly as fast or explosive as he was in his best days in Ottawa. Given he's not physical, defensive-minded or fast, I'd say those are pretty notable deficiencies for a top-six guy.

Only way I could see him in a top-six role is a complementary winger but that experiment went south pretty fast with us so I wouldn't count on him succeeding in that role either.

 

[Legionnaire11]

I thought that he showed he could adapt to be a decent 3rd liner and give a solid two-way effort after Hynes came in last season and let Turris out of the dog house. He might have even excelled in that role if we didn't have Bonino locking it down and there wasn't the mental hurdle of being "demoted" here by the acquisition of Duchene.

I always liked Turris before and when we traded for him, and I hope he does well in Edmonton and wherever his career takes him. It just didn't work out here, sometimes that happens, but the team as a whole had some major flaws during his time here too.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Agree to disagree. I don't see him as a 2C even with strong wingers. He lost a ton of foot speed with those injuries in 18-19, he's not nearly as fast or explosive as he was in his best days in Ottawa. Given he's not physical, defensive-minded or fast, I'd say those are pretty notable deficiencies for a top-six guy.

Only way I could see him in a top-six role is a complementary winger but that experiment went south pretty fast with us so I wouldn't count on him succeeding in that role either.

That's weird. I didn't see him losing anything whatsoever in terms of speed. The injuries had no lasting effect whatsoever, physically. It was just the mental toll of being bounced around the lineup and not getting a cushy gig on the 2nd line handed to him on a silver platter that did him in. And even then, even with all the benchings and weirdness and lack of any chemistry whatsoever, he got 31 points.

I can't say enough how much I dislike the player. But at the same time, I can't in good conscience say I observed any change in his game from a physical perspective. I would never want him on my team. But the role he played for us in his first year here... I can't see how he wouldn't replicate that if ever given the opportunity. I wouldn't personally give him the opportunity, not if I had any other option anyway. But I just don't see that as being a result of anything that has changed whatsoever in Turris' ability. If you don't like him, that's fine, and I don't. But he's physically the same player he was when we got him. (I don't like that player either).

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Subban sure has played some heavy minutes the first 2 games.... 30 and 26 mins? I haven't watched any of the Devils. But that's pretty surprising. Hope he finds a way back.

 

[PredsV82]

Carrier is not kicking himself if he has any sense. Hes obviously not a lock for the NHL and he now has economic security for the next 3 years in what are otherwise very uncertain economic times in hockey. If he turned down the Preds hed almost certainly be playing somewhere on a one year two way deal and trying to prove hes worth a longer deal.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Subban sure has played some heavy minutes the first 2 games.... 30 and 26 mins? I haven't watched any of the Devils. But that's pretty surprising. Hope he finds a way back.

I caught yesterday’s Devils game and he looked pretty good. He wasn’t Norris level Subban of the past but he seems to have adjusted his game to account for his decrease in explosiveness.

 

[Armourboy]

I caught yesterday’s Devils game and he looked pretty good. He wasn’t Norris level Subban of the past but he seems to have adjusted his game to account for his decrease in explosiveness.

I think if he could just retool and be more of a stay at home guy that just makes that good first pass he could play several more years and actually not be bad. Not worth his salary but at least productive.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I think if he could just retool and be more of a stay at home guy that just makes that good first pass he could play several more years and actually not be bad. Not worth his salary but at least productive.

Yeah if he can do that and quarterback the power play he could stay valuable. He was partially responsible for their one goal against last night by giving Bergeron too much space, but other than that he was pretty solid to my eye.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Carrier is not kicking himself if he has any sense. Hes obviously not a lock for the NHL and he now has economic security for the next 3 years in what are otherwise very uncertain economic times in hockey. If he turned down the Preds hed almost certainly be playing somewhere on a one year two way deal and trying to prove hes worth a longer deal.

No, he's at the age and has established himself at the level in hockey where financial security doesn't come in to it. He has been the top scoring defenseman on an AHL team for 4 consecutive years now. What he needs is to find an opportunity to try to progress his career to the next level. He would make more in half a season of NHL money or an a better AHL deal than he will in the next 3 years combined in Milwaukee. Or, alternatively, he needs the peace of mind to move on to the next chapter in his hockey life. He's at the juncture where most young hockey players explore their options in a different organization. It's a little awkward for him since I think he's a late birthdate so wouldn't have qualified for Group VI free agency until next year, if I'm not mistaken. But his track record as an All-Star AHL defenseman would certainly land him a job elsewhere at much higher salary, even in the AHL. And at this stage of his career, that 1-year flexibility is really what a player needs. He's not some generic AHL player struggling to find work. And he has a lengthy better-paying career available to him in Switzerland or Russia the minute he decides he's ready to move on. It's not like the NHL where having a long-term contract protects you against career-ending injury either. His minor league money isn't enough for that to be a factor. What he needs is career progression, not 3 more years of stagnation. He got some bad advice, unfortunately.

 

[PredsV82]

Your analysis makes sense in a non COVID world. But when there is no guarantee of when "next season" is going to even occur, a three year contract is some nice security to have.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Your analysis makes sense in a non COVID world. But when there is no guarantee of when "next season" is going to even occur, a three year contract is some nice security to have.

When did he sign, in April? I doubt he was thinking about a Covid world extending as long as it has, back then. And outside of North American pro hockey, the rest of the world has basically operated as if it was a non-Covid world already. He certainly wouldn't have been prevented from earning double his salary in Europe if that was the path he chose, Covid or no Covid. It's not to say there aren't some silver linings to having a 3-year deal in terms of security. It could certainly be worse. Just if you were balancing the pros and cons, the cons would outweigh the pros in this particular situation for him. Or rather, they would for most hockey players in his situation.

Now, we don't really know his situation on a personal level, however, so there is that. Maybe he really likes Milwaukee, maybe he has family considerations such that he doesn't even want to leave there anyway, maybe he is not particularly motivated to seek a higher level in his hockey career, these would all be fair - atypical for pro hockey players - but certainly fair reasons that could tip the contract back to being the right decision for him personally.

 

[bdub24]

Jason Spezza on waivers in TOR? That’d be nice name recognition from a branding perspective.