Around the NHL 2019-2020 | Offseason Edition

[FabricDetails]

Josi wins it.

 

[MBH]

Josi wins it.

Josi is getting really close to punching his HOF ticket.

109

304

413

[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

so far

But the big thing to me is Norris voting.
Over the last six years
5th, 5th, 11th, 7th, 7th, 1st
4 more years at 50 points a year, below average over his last six years, gets him to 613 points.
Another 3 years at 30 points takes him to 700 points.
He should have a legit shot at an 800 point career, which puts him top 17 all time on the blueline.
But even if he's at 700, that's top 25.
2-3 more years in the top 7 in Norris voting and I think he's a lock.

Then again, Gonchar is still somehow on the outside looking in.

 

[FabricDetails]

Josi is getting really close to punching his HOF ticket.

109

304

413

[TFOOT] [/TFOOT]

so far

But the big thing to me is Norris voting.
Over the last six years
5th, 5th, 11th, 7th, 7th, 1st
4 more years at 50 points a year, below average over his last six years, gets him to 613 points.
Another 3 years at 30 points takes him to 700 points.
He should have a legit shot at an 800 point career, which puts him top 17 all time on the blueline.
But even if he's at 700, that's top 25.
2-3 more years in the top 7 in Norris voting and I think he's a lock.

Then again, Gonchar is still somehow on the outside looking in.

I wonder who else won the Norris the first time they got nominated.

 

[MBH]

I wonder who else won the Norris the first time they got nominated.

Aren't they all nominated?

 

[FabricDetails]

Aren't they all nominated?

I meant like, the first time they've been nominated. Like didn't it take Nick Lidstrom losing it for three years before he won it?

I thought this year was Josi's first.

 

[FabricDetails]

Oh crap I was right about the three years. I totally guessed.

 

[Winger98]

Kesler's talking about his health troubles and issues in the NHL with prescription pain killers.

"I had holes in my colon and ulcers, and basically my whole intestines went into spasm. It's very unpleasant. You've gotta go to the bathroom 30-40 times a day. And when you do go to the bathroom, it's pure blood. It depletes you. It's terrible. And it's all because I wasn't made aware of what this drug could potentially do to me," he said.
​

Now, I know it's going to be easy to say these guys should be looking into this themselves, etc., but that's what those trainers/docs are paid to do. Supposedly. Have to wonder how big this ice berg is.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Kesler's talking about his health troubles and issues in the NHL with prescription pain killers.

"I had holes in my colon and ulcers, and basically my whole intestines went into spasm. It's very unpleasant. You've gotta go to the bathroom 30-40 times a day. And when you do go to the bathroom, it's pure blood. It depletes you. It's terrible. And it's all because I wasn't made aware of what this drug could potentially do to me," he said.
​

Now, I know it's going to be easy to say these guys should be looking into this themselves, etc., but that's what those trainers/docs are paid to do. Supposedly. Have to wonder how big this ice berg is.

There's ~250+ years of Big Pharma experience in my family (some deceased), over the last 75+ years. Many of them high level executives/R&D Scientists etc. Western med & big pharma "has been pulling the wool over the FDA's eyes for decades". It's gotten better in the digital age, but nowhere near where it should be...full transparency, 3rd party/peer reviewed case studies etc.

Ayurveda/Ayurvedic is the way to go for any ailment/proactive maintenance etc. It saved me $10's of thou$ands in medical bills & avoided surgeries & prescription meds altogether. It has made my life manageable, despite numerous severe compounded medical issues.

 

[MBH]

I meant like, the first time they've been nominated. Like didn't it take Nick Lidstrom losing it for three years before he won it?

I thought this year was Josi's first.

My understanding is that every player is nominated. The top 3 or whatever are considered finalists.
So Josi could have won those years he finished 5th and 7th. But he didn't finish in the top 3 and wasn't a finalist.

 

[Ricelund]

Kesler's talking about his health troubles and issues in the NHL with prescription pain killers.

"I had holes in my colon and ulcers, and basically my whole intestines went into spasm. It's very unpleasant. You've gotta go to the bathroom 30-40 times a day. And when you do go to the bathroom, it's pure blood. It depletes you. It's terrible. And it's all because I wasn't made aware of what this drug could potentially do to me," he said.
​

Now, I know it's going to be easy to say these guys should be looking into this themselves, etc., but that's what those trainers/docs are paid to do. Supposedly. Have to wonder how big this ice berg is.

Terrible.

Looks like Quincey is in the documentary, too:

 

[FabricDetails]

My understanding is that every player is nominated. The top 3 or whatever are considered finalists.
So Josi could have won those years he finished 5th and 7th. But he didn't finish in the top 3 and wasn't a finalist.

True. I should have said first time as a finalist.

 

[Winger98]

There's ~250+ years of Big Pharma experience in my family (some deceased), over the last 75+ years. Many of them high level executives/R&D Scientists etc. Western med & big pharma "has been pulling the wool over the FDA's eyes for decades". It's gotten better in the digital age, but nowhere near where it should be...full transparency, 3rd party/peer reviewed case studies etc.

Ayurveda/Ayurvedic is the way to go for any ailment/proactive maintenance etc. It saved me $10's of thou$ands in medical bills & avoided surgeries & prescription meds altogether. It has made my life manageable, despite numerous severe compounded medical issues.

This might be overly cynical of me but I pretty much expect big pharma (alright, businesses as a whole) to lie to the government as much as possible. This seems like it was team physicians just not telling guys anything about the meds they were handing out other than that it would help and probably that it was safe. They clearly didn't tell Kesler any of the negatives. I was sort of hoping they were getting beyond crap like that, and I'd be surprised if something about this doesn't come up in the next round of labor negotiations, if it's a problem throughout the league.

Have to wonder if they will try to force teams/the league to reimburse players for medical expenses when seeking second opinions or something.

 

[jkutswings]

Pittsburgh Penguins acquire Mike Matheson, Colton Sceviour from Panthers for Patric Hornqvist - TSN.ca

"We talked about getting younger, making some changes, trying to transition on the fly if that’s possible in this league,” Rutherford said.

Now where have I heard that argument before...

Keep "propping that window up", Penguins. I'm only too happy to see a decade of flightless birds languishing away in mediocrity.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Pittsburgh Penguins acquire Mike Matheson, Colton Sceviour from Panthers for Patric Hornqvist - TSN.ca

"We talked about getting younger, making some changes, trying to transition on the fly if that’s possible in this league,” Rutherford said.

Now where have I heard that argument before...

Keep "propping that window up", Penguins. I'm only too happy to see a decade of flightless birds languishing away in mediocrity.

Given their historical lottery luck, I doubt it...

Yeah this is not a good trade in my opinion.

But again you cannot really give up with Crosby and Malkin still on the roster. It's kind of a strange place to be in.

One thing about Rutherford, he is never boring that is for sure...

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

JR should be fielding offers for at least 1 of Crosby/Malkin +Letang, but as a Wings fan, I'm glad he isn't as their prolonged demise is something the entire league will be looking forward to. Maybe in the future if Crysby/Malkin say "this is our last year, we wanna retire together, trade us to a contender", I could see that, but I hope they go down with the ship & never touch the sacred Cup again. Would be even better if we knock them out (sweep plz) of the playoffs 1 year & mathematically eliminate them the last game/week of the year in another season.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Ryan Suter to Detroit?
What drugs have fogged this thread.

id do it

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Terrible.

Looks like Quincey is in the documentary, too:

I’m glad this is getting more notice. As a chronic pain sufferer, that stuff is easy to get addicted to, it really does only take one time to like the high and want to chase it forever

Not to mention the walk it off and be a man attitude in the past

 

[Pavels Dog]

Pittsburgh Penguins acquire Mike Matheson, Colton Sceviour from Panthers for Patric Hornqvist - TSN.ca

"We talked about getting younger, making some changes, trying to transition on the fly if that’s possible in this league,” Rutherford said.

Now where have I heard that argument before...

Keep "propping that window up", Penguins. I'm only too happy to see a decade of flightless birds languishing away in mediocrity.

This is how 99% of declining championship teams will handle things.

Real life ain't EA Sports NHL, you don't rush into a rebuild if you can still compete.

 

[jkutswings]

This is how 99% of declining championship teams will handle things.

Agreed.

Real life ain't EA Sports NHL, you don't rush into a rebuild if you can still compete.

That doesn't change the high probability that Pittsburgh will never get close to a Cup again with this core. Or that the assets they would acquire from trading a Crosby and/or a Malkin - however unpopular or unconventional that might be - would be significant.

It comes down to priorities. As a business, you need to sell tickets. But the Penguins' window is gone, so I can chuckle at knowing a team I don't like has their feet locked into the long road of purgatory, because they follow the standard model of profitability over 'championships at all cost'.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Agreed.



That doesn't change the high probability that Pittsburgh will never get close to a Cup again with this core. Or that the assets they would acquire from trading a Crosby and/or a Malkin - however unpopular or unconventional that might be - would be significant.

It comes down to priorities. As a business, you need to sell tickets. But the Penguins' window is gone, so I can chuckle at knowing a team I don't like has their feet locked into the long road of purgatory.

I'll enjoy Pittsburgh's decline too, but I still like that there is more loyalty in hockey than in many other sports. Unless the players themselves want out for whatever reason, trading them is not just a simple transaction for the immediate future, it can be the difference between having Crosby and Malkin as part of the organization after their playing days or not. And for what it's worth, I think guys like that can have a positive impact on everyone around them for quite a few more years to come still.

 

[jkutswings]

I'll enjoy Pittsburgh's decline too, but I still like that there is more loyalty in hockey than in many other sports. Unless the players themselves want out for whatever reason, trading them is not just a simple transaction for the immediate future, it can be the difference between having Crosby and Malkin as part of the organization after their playing days or not. And for what it's worth, I think guys like that can have a positive impact on everyone around them for quite a few more years to come still.

Loyalty is an admirable trait, but it's also what drove this board crazy over the Clearys and Abdelkaders of the world.

Yes, there's a night and day difference between those depth players and superstars like Crosby and Malkin. But I want the Wings to chase Cups and be entertaining, not emulate goodwill ambassadors. To each their own I guess.

 

[Hammettf2b]

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Loyalty is an admirable trait, but it's also what drove this board crazy over the Clearys and Abdelkaders of the world.

Yes, there's a night and day difference between those depth players and superstars like Crosby and Malkin. But I want the Wings to chase Cups and be entertaining, not emulate goodwill ambassadors. To each their own I guess.

Crosby and Malkin are much more along the lines of Yzerman, Fedorov, Zetterberg and Datsyuk. We know how Fedorov ended, but the other guys were all kept and we built to be successful around them until the bitter end. I get you're saying that is terrible, but I think it is also tough to quit on guys who really won't allow you to bottom out and you know can play like the best players in the world for stretches still.

Then the real reality behind not a video game, that these guys have done this for you for years. You have seen and appreciate all they have done for you. Also, if you disrespect this guy you wear it in a bad way with the PA and they ultimately in terms of Malkin, Crosby, Datsyuk, Yzerman and Zetterberg could just retire if you threaten them in a way they don't like...

This is a real world situation where it is hard to win. What JR is doing is making it far worse though, he is basically cutting their last chances at the knees by building one of the worst D-cores in the league.

 

[jkutswings]

Crosby and Malkin are much more along the lines of Yzerman, Fedorov, Zetterberg and Datsyuk. We know how Fedorov ended, but the other guys were all kept and we built to be successful around them until the bitter end. I get you're saying that is terrible, but I think it is also tough to quit on guys who really won't allow you to bottom out and you know can play like the best players in the world for stretches still.

Then the real reality behind not a video game, that these guys have done this for you for years. You have seen and appreciate all they have done for you. Also, if you disrespect this guy you wear it in a bad way with the PA and they ultimately in terms of Malkin, Crosby, Datsyuk, Yzerman and Zetterberg could just retire if you threaten them in a way they don't like...

This is a real world situation where it is hard to win. What JR is doing is making it far worse though, he is basically cutting their last chances at the knees by building one of the worst D-cores in the league.

I hear you. But I'm somebody that wanted Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg traded circa 2015. It was never gonna happen, but the math of it all back then, and now for Pittsburgh, is something along these lines:

There's about a 1 percent chance of Rutherford somehow mortgaging enough of the future and shuffling enough assets to pull off a borderline miracle. Something like, sign Taylor Hall and also bring in either Pietrangelo or Krug. Then the Penguins do have one more kick at the can for another 2-3 years.

There's about a 99 percent chance of Crosby and Malkin never seeing the Conference Finals again in their careers, let alone winning another Cup. Pittsburgh will be a 1st / 2nd round exit for a few years, then begin missing the playoffs. But the front office will emphasize to the fans how "close they are" and how "if they just get in, anything can happen". (So renew those season tickets, best friends, and hang in there.) And the last half dozen years of those otherwise stellar careers will be completely wasted on a dying roster that simply does not have enough talent that is young enough and at a low enough cap hit to be a legit contender ever again.

It's a very real side of professional sports, but it's the one I hate the most, because it has absolutely nothing to do with striving for excellence, and everything to do with risk aversion in the name of continuing to put dollars in the owner's pockets.

 

[Oddbob]

I hear you. But I'm somebody that wanted Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg traded circa 2015. It was never gonna happen, but the math of it all back then, and now for Pittsburgh, is something along these lines:

There's about a 1 percent chance of Rutherford somehow mortgaging enough of the future and shuffling enough assets to pull off a borderline miracle. Something like, sign Taylor Hall and also bring in either Pietrangelo or Krug. Then the Penguins do have one more kick at the can for another 2-3 years.

There's about a 99 percent chance of Crosby and Malkin never seeing the Conference Finals again in their careers, let alone winning another Cup. Pittsburgh will be a 1st / 2nd round exit for a few years, then begin missing the playoffs. But the front office will emphasize to the fans how "close they are" and how "if they just get in, anything can happen". (So renew those season tickets, best friends, and hang in there.) And the last half dozen years of those otherwise stellar careers will be completely wasted on a dying roster that simply does not have enough talent that is young enough and at a low enough cap hit to be a legit contender ever again.

It's a very real side of professional sports, but it's the one I hate the most, because it has absolutely nothing to do with striving for excellence, and everything to do with risk aversion in the name of continuing to put dollars in the owner's pockets.

If I'm Pittsburgh you hang on as long as you can. Not wasting Crosby's remaining career on rebuilding.