Around the NHL 2019-2020 | Offseason Edition

[FabricDetails]

Not that I should bite, when did Ken Holland ever make a trade like this ever... The answer is he hasn't, sorry.

KFQ!!!!!

Hehe, I'm kidding. Although I'm sure some FEEL like it's the same.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Absolute brutal deal for the Pens. Reminds me of something Kenny would do.

I don’t think it’s that great for the Leafs either. Kapanen is a decent young player that could probably do well in a bigger role. The #15th pick offers some trade possibilities that Kapanen maybe didn’t, but it still remains to be seen what Dubas has planned to actually do to improve the team. Everyone gets so excited when a team acquires a 1st but the truth is Penguins likely won this deal in terms of getting the best player out of it.

 

[raymond23]

I don’t think it’s that great for the Leafs either. Kapanen is a decent young player that could probably do well in a bigger role. The #15th pick offers some trade possibilities that Kapanen maybe didn’t, but it still remains to be seen what Dubas has planned to actually do to improve the team. Everyone gets so excited when a team acquires a 1st but the truth is Penguins likely won this deal in terms of getting the best player out of it.

My thoughts as well.

 

[ShanahanMan]

Not that I should bite, when did Ken Holland ever make a trade like this ever... The answer is he hasn't, sorry.

Oh come on, the Quincey trade alone was awful. But he constantly would trade prospects and picks like they grew on trees.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

KFQ!!!!!

Hehe, I'm kidding. Although I'm sure some FEEL like it's the same.

We were the #1 in the league at the time of that trade.... Lots of hindsight as is most of how Holland's moves are treated by a certain crowd. They are free to think that way, nobody in the actual business of hockey does and that is telling. We got hurt a lot from February on, tough to predict Lidstrom's first injury, Datsyuk going down, Modano and Helm disappearing, Howard never recovering from the slash (we know he does that now in part because of that season and the other things that would plague that team. Remember TSN and NBCSN both calling out D-core the best entering the playoffs in the run-in, why because they had secured Quincey to anchor the third pairing and it came with the caveat he protected Stuart's imminent departure.

Really his most questionable one was Legwand. A guy his coach mysteriously campaigned for and then didn't like and the prospect price was one that had quit on the organization. I was wrapped up in it too for the first couple hours until it became clear Jarnkrok had no future here, people can want to want that away but circumstances matter. It also did help extend the playoff streak something his actual bosses the Ilitch family were very much in favor of.

 

[MBH]

Most people understood that trading a first for Quincey - a guy who was a healthy scratch on a bad Colorado team - was a bad trade at the time.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

The bubble has broken Jon Marchessault

 

[raymond23]

Social media will the downfall of Vegas apparently

 

[The Zermanator]

We were the #1 in the league at the time of that trade.... Lots of hindsight as is most of how Holland's moves are treated by a certain crowd. They are free to think that way, nobody in the actual business of hockey does and that is telling. We got hurt a lot from February on, tough to predict Lidstrom's first injury, Datsyuk going down, Modano and Helm disappearing, Howard never recovering from the slash (we know he does that now in part because of that season and the other things that would plague that team. Remember TSN and NBCSN both calling out D-core the best entering the playoffs in the run-in, why because they had secured Quincey to anchor the third pairing and it came with the caveat he protected Stuart's imminent departure.

Really his most questionable one was Legwand. A guy his coach mysteriously campaigned for and then didn't like and the prospect price was one that had quit on the organization. I was wrapped up in it too for the first couple hours until it became clear Jarnkrok had no future here, people can want to want that away but circumstances matter. It also did help extend the playoff streak something his actual bosses the Ilitch family were very much in favor of.

You can't really evaluate somebody's body of work in an area when it mostly doesn't exist. Holland didn't trade players of consequence very much in the salary cap era, period. Especially in the 2010s until the rebuild started. You basically jump from acquiring Bertuzzi in 2007 to the Stuart/Quincey switch in 2012, to Legwand in 2014, and then finally the chips start to fall following Datsyuk's departure in 2016. So that's a period of nearly 10 years where you can count significant trades on one hand, and even then none of them were blockbusters.

Holland had strengths for sure, but in the cap era he never made much use of trading. To be fair he had done quite well since the Datsyuk trade with Tatar, Nyquist, etc. but that doesn't change the fact he basically ignored the trading avenue for many years. It's where the hoarding and 'kicking tires' tropes came from. You can only speculate at 'what could have been' with all the trade targets that passed by over the years, but it's hard to imagine being in much worse shape than the team he left Yzerman...

Regardless, there are justifications for some of Holland's moves based on the Mike Ilitch situation. What I could never get over was the dominos of terrible contracts in Abdelkader, Nielsen, Helm all in such short order. Still saddled with them for years meanwhile he immediately manages to trade what was thought to be the most untradeable contract in the league in Lucic.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Oof

 

[Bench]

Oof

Ouch.

I get the distinct feeling Hall is walking away for nothing, too. It seems like John Chayka was the guy who coveted Hall and was beating the drum for him. Without that, do they get a deal done? Here's their quote on it:

The offer presented to Hall by the Coyotes after the season is likely to be different from what's been given to him previously. "That was John's work product," a source said. "The end result could be different."

That sounds like the offer is dropping.

And the Arizona ownership finally gave their team a full budget, but the results were pretty... meh. Will they want to keep spending to the cap limit in COVID times? Doubt it.

Just when Arizona seemed to be trending up, they don't have a 1st round pick this year (Hall trade) or a 1st rounder next year (this penalty). Ouch.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Oof

Yzerman was the only GM to speak up about this a few months ago, glad the NHL actually addressed it. I wonder if the penalty would've been stiffer had it been a non-NHL owned team, ie, not AZ.


O/T ...The Milwaukee Bucks have decided to boycott Game 5 against the Orlando Magic (no reason given so far)...this cancel culture is beyond way out of hand now. Prof. athletes & their teams are paid to do 1 job, some/most/all are subsidized by our tax dollars as well!!

 

[FabricDetails]

Yzerman was the only GM to speak up about this a few months ago, glad the NHL actually addressed it. I wonder if the penalty would've been stiffer had it been a non-NHL owned team, ie, not AZ.

That was savage, haha. I don't know if he did it formally though. I only remember the sneak diss version.

 

[The Zermanator]

I think the NHL should follow suit with the other leagues (just so happens it would have no impact on us whatsoever... ).

But in all honesty, I can't help thinking that the idea that there should be a difference in response from the NBA vs NHL is rooted in the bias that the NBA is a 'black man's league' and the NHL is a 'white man's league.' I mean, obviously demographics don't lie in terms of athletes/spectators... but what about Kane, Simmonds, Reaves, etc, etc, etc.? They're all black men who pull on the same uniform as their teammates game after game but they have to live with this dark cloud hanging over them and their loved ones in day to day life.

You can't just pay lip service and say I support this cause and the diversity alliance but cop out and say well it's not an NHL issue when a real incident crops up. These are the moments that will define whether your support is real, or superficial. Especially when viewed in the larger context of the NHL trying to broaden its appeal with new demographics. It's why Mike Milbury saying 'Gee it's good thing there's no women there' led to his canning. Would be a very bad look if the NHL was the only league not to do anything of substance in response to this. If NASCAR, given the sensibilities of large swaths of their fanbase, can decide to ban confederate flags at their events and risk fallout with some of their fans, then it's not too much to ask the NHL to make a statement as well.

 

[raymond23]

I don’t think the NHL is going to (or should) cancel their games.

 

[Winger98]

Once the NBA confirms cancellation, which sounds expected today. I think pressure will mount on all the leagues. So I wouldn't be too confident that it won't cascade into hockey.

With the games being played only in Canada, I think there is far less pressure on the NHL to follow suit.

 

[Bench]

With the games being played only in Canada, I think there is far less pressure on the NHL to follow suit.

That was my feeling, too.

This would be completely different if the season was going on like normal outside of the bubble, though.

Here in Minneapolis we had another emergency curfew pushed last night. The first since the unrest over George Floyd. Apparently a murder suspect was confronted by police and shot himself. However that information was slow to spread, and citizens downtown assumed the worst about what happened. Crowds started to form. The Minnesota National Guard has been mobilized again.

So no way the Wild would continue like normal now if the season was going.

But the bubble feels a bit like it's own little universe right now. We'll see.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Guess they are still playing, Osaka is also returning to her event. Doubt pressure exists on the NHL with that being the case.

 

[Winger98]

I moved all of the protesting/cop/etc. stuff to the Corona/OT thread. So, please take it over there (for now) and let's try to keep this thread as NHL centric as possible.

 

[FabricDetails]

Pronman is doing a daily analysis and ranking of young talent in the NHL. He's in the low twenties and I just keep thinking to myself, "Any day now..."

 

[avssuc]

We were the #1 in the league at the time of that trade.... Lots of hindsight as is most of how Holland's moves are treated by a certain crowd. They are free to think that way, nobody in the actual business of hockey does and that is telling. We got hurt a lot from February on, tough to predict Lidstrom's first injury, Datsyuk going down, Modano and Helm disappearing, Howard never recovering from the slash (we know he does that now in part because of that season and the other things that would plague that team. Remember TSN and NBCSN both calling out D-core the best entering the playoffs in the run-in, why because they had secured Quincey to anchor the third pairing and it came with the caveat he protected Stuart's imminent departure.

Really his most questionable one was Legwand. A guy his coach mysteriously campaigned for and then didn't like and the prospect price was one that had quit on the organization. I was wrapped up in it too for the first couple hours until it became clear Jarnkrok had no future here, people can want to want that away but circumstances matter. It also did help extend the playoff streak something his actual bosses the Ilitch family were very much in favor of.

Feels like the fallout from the Marleau deal hurt the Leafs more than Legwand hurt the Wings, but I guess we should wait to see how that 1st pans out. At least they unloaded that before the flat cap.

I did disagree with the Quincy trade, but I had no idea the Wings were 1st in the league when that happened, so I'm better with it now. I can't believe that was almost a decade ago!

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Clickbait site mentions 60 game 20-21 season.

Shortened 60 game NHL season reportedly in the works for 2020-21

"2020 has been one wild ride. We're in the thick of the Stanley Cup Playoffs and it's the first week of September. Usually, this month would be reserved for training camp stories, which rookies to look out for and re-familiarizing yourself with all the offseason moves of the summer. But it's 2020 so of course we haven't even gotten to the Conference Finals yet... again what a wild ride.
The playoffs themselves are expected to last another month, with October 5th as the last possible date for a potential Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Final. So... what happens with the 2020-21 season? After all, the puck usually drops on the new season on the first weekend of October. Will we see hockey in November and December?"

"ESPN reporters Greg Wyshynski and Emily Kaplan managed to get some anonymous quotes from NHL executives on the state of the league moving forward and the resulting article that the pair devised has some pretty shocking statements regarding next season. For one, we're likely looking at a shortened season consisting of just 60-65 games. Secondly, if you're expecting training camps to open in November, well... you've got another thing coming."

"Check out some of these quotes from Wyshynski and Kaplan's article:

The NHL and NHL Players' Association tentatively agreed to a Dec. 1 start date for 2020-21, with training camps beginning on Nov. 17. But privately, team executives believe that's too ambitious. The further the NHL pushes back the start date, the less likely a full schedule is. Awarding a Stanley Cup in September or October isn't going to be a regular occurrence.
As one high-ranking team business executive told ESPN bluntly: "We all realize an 82-game schedule for next season is a pipe dream. It's just not going to happen."

"One NHL executive told ESPN he anticipated a season of around 60 to 65 games, beginning in mid-to-late January. Another NHL team executive believed 70 games would be the baseline for next season, because that's a number typically used as a minimum for regional TV contracts -- although that number was "more of a guidepost" than a mandatory minimum."
​

"For the full article from ESPN, click below:

Must-read collaboration between @emilymkaplan and yours truly: Speaking with NHL team/league execs about what they think the 2020-21 season will look like. (Hint: Not 82 games, varying numbers of fans, maybe more bubble hockey.) What we're hearing about the 2020-21 NHL season
— Greg Wyshynski (@wyshynski) September 1, 2020"​

 

[Mister Ed]

Jake Allen goes to Montreal for picks. There goes one goalie pipedream!

 

[Bench]

Jake Allen goes to Montreal for picks. There goes one goalie pipedream!

I don't think paying a 3rd rounder for Jake Allen is what I'd describe as a pipedream.

The real tragedy here is that the Blues were able to shed goalie salary and still get a draft pick back. That means they are far more likely to be able to retain Pietrangelo.

 

[ShippinItDaily]

Hmm. Certainly shows that Allen's market value wasn't that of a cap dump.