Around the NHL: 2018-19, Part 4

[sabrebuild]

2013–14 NHL suspensions and fines - Wikipedia

5 years ago, that was probably a suspension.

There were 15 suspensions for illegal hits to the head in 2013-14.

Let’s youtube each hit. Because I sincerely doubt that those hits looked like this one.

I’ll take a look but my embed skills suck.

 

[JThorne]

I feel the same about people who live in Buffalo.

Considering that Buffalo is semi often referred to as a great place for food, you're taste blind.

 

[sabrebuild]

2013–14 NHL suspensions and fines - Wikipedia

5 years ago, that was probably a suspension.

There were 15 suspensions for illegal hits to the head in 2013-14.

Edler takes all day to come across the neutral zone targeting a Shark and then purely catches all head with his shoulder, literally no other point of contact.

Stuart charges a standing still Nash, rises up to twist his shoulder right into Nash’s head, who is a couple inches taller and standing up right.

Kaleta tracks Johnson on a back check, lifts into the hit from behind ala Chris Neil on Drury and only makes contact with the head, no body.

Grabber in Gerbe is another super predatory Neil hit from the blindside that again was pure head to shoulder and no other body contact.

John Scott is somewhat closer to our situation, because some body contact is made, but again it’s a predatory side shot and he extends his arm and elbow out right on Eriksson’s chin. More importantly Scott is a goon who is 6’7” and he hit a skilled star.

Clarkson on Sobotka again predatory from behind, all chin no body contact, the Neil hit.

Couldn’t find the Cowen hit on Girgs and the pattern is pretty clear, the league was targeting the Cooke/Neil type hits.

I encourage you to look up the hits to take a look, to my eyes they are very different hits to what we were talking about.

I searched name of player suspended for hit on date on player/victim.

YouTube had most. Agree to disagree.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Ok, ya I see where your coming from. Yes I totally see the game heading towards the woman’s game. Certainly from what I saw in The Olympics this year, where the women were allowed to knock each other down along the boards without penalties for the most part.

You may disagree, but as far as I can see all the evidence is pointing that way. Five years ago that Borowiecki hit would not have even been a discussion for a major penalty, let alone a suspension. Ten years ago that hit is in a highlight reel with a reference to how his technique was great.

Now maybe there is some line that they are going to stop at and guys will be able to walk it, and the best will be able to pull off the Provorov hit once every ten games. But it seems to me like if we are talking about semantic lines, the league is headed far more towards the current women’s rules as a goal 5-10 years down the line, codified or not, than they are the level of physical play that has been played historically in the league until the last few years.

Hockey before expansion with the WHA didn't feature checking as an attrition strategy. It was more like the contact, not collision future you're describing.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I guess that’s a relative question.

It’s so less physical than it was in the mid 90s for example that kids now wouldn’t be able to believe it. Name the star and they wouldn’t have a career, Stevens, Pronger, Lindros, etc. A regular Peca hit would be a 25 game suspension.

The Campbell hit is probably the best hit I’ve ever seen live and was perfectly in play and today it would be a lengthy suspension because he caught Umbergers chin as he drove straight thru his chest.

So sure, people will still get bumped or pushed into the wall, and slashes and cross checks sort of. But under these rules, you are taking an enormous risk of suspension even going for a big open ice hit just due to the nature of people trying to duck out of hits or move at the last second as is natural.

I guess I didn’t realize it was controversial to say hitting is being removed from the game.

Much like McCabe got suspended for his hit on Laine?

 

[sabrebuild]

Much like McCabe got suspended for his hit on Laine?

Ya, actually a lot like that. Not the cheeky suspension part, but the fact that that hit was one of the few hits of that type I can think of a Sabre throwing over several seasons. Versus my example where a hit or two like that was a nightly affair.

 

[sabrebuild]

Hockey before expansion with the WHA didn't feature checking as an attrition strategy. It was more like the contact, not collision future you're describing.

Totally agree, I assume your talking 67-71 expansion.

Worse equipment made skating at high speed more difficult, the game in general was slower. Not wearing a helmet certainly makes a lot of ppl more cautious.

But of course that was also an era with line brawls common, stick fights not uncommon and was overall a much more physically dangerous era.

Look I’m not saying things never change, I’m saying this is a change. And not completely for the better.

For what it’s worth, on the Laine/McCabe hit, by Jim Bob and the nhl’s logic, McCabe should been suspended. He recklessly stepped up to hit Laine and basically head butted him. It was coincidental to the hit, but it still happened, much like borowiecki.

 

[Beerz]

Much like McCabe got suspended for his hit on Laine?

Did he get suspended for that hit? ..

I remember there was one against Boston that was beautiful and a penalty was called but can't remember if he was suspended for that hit either... think it was Jakes first year. It was marvelous

 

[Jim Bob]

Totally agree, I assume your talking 67-71 expansion.

Worse equipment made skating at high speed more difficult, the game in general was slower. Not wearing a helmet certainly makes a lot of ppl more cautious.

But of course that was also an era with line brawls common, stick fights not uncommon and was overall a much more physically dangerous era.

Look I’m not saying things never change, I’m saying this is a change. And not completely for the better.

For what it’s worth, on the Laine/McCabe hit, by Jim Bob and the nhl’s logic, McCabe should been suspended. He recklessly stepped up to hit Laine and basically head butted him. It was coincidental to the hit, but it still happened, much like borowiecki.

The principle point of contact was Laine's chest and not his head.

These are two completely different hits. And I have no issue with a check to the chest when the player has the puck.

Neither does the NHL and that is why McCabe wasn't suspended.

 

[Paxon]

It is likely a semantical debate.

You say things like "they will slowly eliminate hitting" and "hitting is being removed from the game" and it sounds to me like you foresee a future where the NHL is like women's hockey in that body checking is illegal.

I don't see it going that route.

I do see the game moving more and more toward a skill game versus "old time hockey".

Personally, I prefer speed and skill over grind it out hockey.

Open ice hits don't really equate to a grinding game or interfere with skilled play, outside of causing injury.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Ya, actually a lot like that. Not the cheeky suspension part, but the fact that that hit was one of the few hits of that type I can think of a Sabre throwing over several seasons. Versus my example where a hit or two like that was a nightly affair.

Hits like McCabe on Laine were never a nightly affair. Hits like Campbell on Umberger were never even a seasonly affair. There's youtube videos calling it "the hit". It may have been the very best check ever thrown by a Sabre, almost certainly in this millennium.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Did he get suspended for that hit? ..

I remember there was one against Boston that was beautiful and a penalty was called but can't remember if he was suspended for that hit either... think it was Jakes first year. It was marvelous

No of course he didn't. The McCabe hit was a counter example to the hyperbole that hitting is being removed from the game.

If anyone wants to compare the recent suspension it'd be a hit like Cooke on Booth, or Neil on Drury; cutting across a player to hit them in the head. That's a hit the NHL wants gone from the game.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Did he get suspended for that hit? ..

I remember there was one against Boston that was beautiful and a penalty was called but can't remember if he was suspended for that hit either... think it was Jakes first year. It was marvelous

His hit on Pallie? I think he was ejected from the game.

 

[Beerz]

His hit on Pallie? I think he was ejected from the game.

Yes.. that is the one.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Considering that Buffalo is semi often referred to as a great place for food, you're taste blind.

It’s referred to that...solely by people who live there. In other places you have to do more than deep fry something to call it “good.”

 

[sabrebuild]

The principle point of contact was Laine's chest and not his head.

These are two completely different hits. And I have no issue with a check to the chest when the player has the puck.

Neither does the NHL and that is why McCabe wasn't suspended.

If you say so. I’ve watched them both. The size difference certainly delays it, but it’s a brutal head shot in effect. International rules would have punished McCabe for that. And we certainly are headed that way. In five years I bet you all my #fatstacks, the McCabe hit will be a problem and the league will hold players accountable for their opponents head. Even if that means a violent hit ends with a player hitting their head on the ice after a clean check.

It very well may be a good thing for everyone’s health. It sure seems like that is the path.

 

[sabrebuild]

Hits like McCabe on Laine were never a nightly affair. Hits like Campbell on Umberger were never even a seasonly affair. There's youtube videos calling it "the hit". It may have been the very best check ever thrown by a Sabre, almost certainly in this millennium.

I’ve seen it. Super fun.

But you entered a conversation midway thru, I was referring to pre-lockout and particularly the 90s and before.

For example, Peca has 30 hits like McCabe on Laine over his Sabre career. And he had many tough hitting teammates on those teams. And no an injury level hit was not every single night, but most games had several knockdown hits, today the Carubba collision is often a super soft hit, as the best option.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I’ve seen it. Super fun.

But you entered a conversation midway thru, I was referring to pre-lockout and particularly the 90s and before.

For example, Peca has 30 hits like McCabe on Laine over his Sabre career. And he had many tough hitting teammates on those teams. And no an injury level hit was not every single night, but most games had several knockdown hits, today the Carubba collision is often a super soft hit, as the best option.

This is the hockey version of rose colored glasses. And no he didn’t have many equally hard hitting teammates.

If you want to compress 20 years and compare it to individual modern games; yeah you’re going to get weird results.

 

[sabrebuild]

This is the hockey version of rose colored glasses. And no he didn’t have many equally hard hitting teammates.

If you want to compress 20 years and compare it to individual modern games; yeah you’re going to get weird results.

I’m not compressing anything, he was one of numerous players like him throughout the league.

If you don’t think the 90s was a more physical time in the league than now, we’ll just have to disagree.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

I’m not compressing anything, he was one of numerous players like him throughout the league.

If you don’t think the 90s was a more physical time in the league than now, we’ll just have to disagree.

It was. But it wasn’t massive hits every night. That’s just nostalgia

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Beerz]

It’s referred to that...solely by people who live there. In other places you have to do more than deep fry something to call it “good.”

delete

 

[sabremike]

If any of you still think coaching doesn't matter go take a look whose tied at the top of the Metro. I'm well aware it is almost certainly not going to last but still. Coaching matters.

 

[ZZamboni]

It’s referred to that...solely by people who live there. In other places you have to do more than deep fry something to call it “good.”

So “everything in Buffalo is deep fried” who the heck thinks that? Well that’s massively ignorant generalizing.

I’ve eaten breakfasts, lunches and dinners all over the country. All non fried. And Buffalo has damn good grub. And so does a lot of other places in this country. It’s not better than most I’ve tried. It’s not worse than most I’ve tried.

No need to make stuff up to put Buffalo local restaurants or its patrons down. Bloody hell.

And those that think fried food is a culinary feather in the cap of a city are clueless.. I know no one who thinks that.

 

[OkimLom]

His hit on Pallie? I think he was ejected from the game.

I think that ejection was more along the lines of trying to calm down the team’s because that game had some nastiness and guys were on edge. I remember a lot of fans from other teams were shocked he got a 5 min major and game misconduct.