You all certainly were right about Riley Sheahan, that guy is awful. The fact that Pittsburgh sweetened the deal with the better draft pick is sad.
What a dumb trade for the Pens. How's Wilson playing so far?
Duchesne is signed for another year, though, and there is nothing saying Turris was at all interested in re-signing in Ottawa. Next season will be interesting with Duchene, Brassard, and Karlsson in contract years. If they slip, or those guys just don't want to re-sign, what do you do? Especially Karlsson, who would gut that place if he leaves.
Poile deserves all of the credit in the world, too. He's put Nashville into an incredible position. Johansen-Turris-Bonino down the middle is pretty darn good, and the main guys on their blueline are locked in pretty affordably for the next few years to boot.
True, Ottawa was in a bad situation with Turris....but it just seems crazy to give up a 2C who had AGREED TO AN EXTENSION WITH THE ACQUIRING TEAM plus a 1st plus a 1st round prospect plus a 3rd round pick without being a Cup favorite (and a backup who could be a slight cap burden or could be a backup blessing - a neutral IMO) for 1.7 years of an injury-burdened Matt Duchene who, at the age of Turris, has no real incentive to re-sign with perpetually cap-strapped Ottawa - at least not for a cap friendly deal. If this were 3 or 4 years ago, I’d probably understand the move as a solid upgrade at center but I just don’t see the jump from Turris to Duchene as a major needle-mover these days.
Ken Holland look at David Poile, please. That’s what not being complacent at your job looks like.
What young prospects do you want Holland to start dealing?
Nashville drafts good and plugs prospects in early. Girard was drafted around same time as Hronek and got some NHL action this year which upped his trade value without a doubt.
Then Poile has been both pretty agressive and creative with trades the last few years.
Holland doesn’t take nearly as many risks. He doesn’t lose big, but he doesn’t win big either.
Didn't answer my question.
What young prospects do you want Holland to start dealing?
Ottawa gave up a lot, but does Turris agree to that sort of deal with Colorado or Ottawa? Does colorado trade with Ottawa at all without Nashville's assets?
Meanwhile, Ottawa has to be looking at this situation where they have started the season well, and they could be fighting for a playoff spot in February. Do they want to go to the trade deadline with a center who won't sign with them while feeling unable to trade him without throwing the towel in on a playoff push? Duchene gets them out of making that decision this year, while putting them into position to keep fighting for the playoffs.
Ottawa's really not in a great position to throw themselves in a rebuild - which is what would be happening if they dumped Turris for futures. And I don't think they worry about paying Duchene a fair market deal ($8m per is my guess, or something close, if Duchene puts up the sort of points he's been capable of). The guy can be a #1 quality center, and that's something you don't really quibble about paying a fair price for.
Nashville drafts good and plugs prospects in early. Girard was drafted around same time as Hronek and got some NHL action this year which upped his trade value without a doubt.
Then Poile has been both pretty agressive and creative with trades the last few years.
Holland doesn’t take nearly as many risks. He doesn’t lose big, but he doesn’t win big either.
I don't recall Nashville ever drafting an impact forward.The ones his team seems incapable of drafting for the past 15 years.
Remember that time we drafted a good defenseman? Me neither.I don't recall Nashville ever drafting an impact forward.
I don't recall Nashville ever drafting an impact forward.
Nashville drafts good and plugs prospects in early. Girard was drafted around same time as Hronek and got some NHL action this year which upped his trade value without a doubt.
Then Poile has been both pretty agressive and creative with trades the last few years.
Holland doesn’t take nearly as many risks. He doesn’t lose big, but he doesn’t win big either.
I can understand all that sans your last line which I suppose is where we disagree. I don't see Duchene as a "#1 quality center" unless we're talking about the statistical definition of being a #1 center in which case Turris is also up there. I do think Duchene has the edge on Kyle I just don't think its that major when you subtract the hype for Duchene. It'll also be horribly painful for Ottawa ownership to give up that kind of money for Duchene who has no real incentive to play nice for a team he'll be a veteran of for 1.5 seasons as a UFA.
(Edit: Since Duchene's big season in 13/14, he's averaged a 60 point pace over 320 games. Turris over those same seasons has averaged a 57 point pace in 310 games. That's fairly indicative of how far apart I'd consider them to be, maybe a touch more in favor of Duchene.)
I mean, a Turris willing to agree to an extension is probably worth a 1st, a 3rd and Bowers himself, so it seems like Ottawa essentially gave up double that. That may be what Ottawa needed to do to maximize their potential playoff success right now but it sure seems like Dorion painted himself into a corner to get there.
In slightly related news, apparently Brian Lawton is saying OEL is going to be the next big name on the trade market? Talk about swinging big trades to bring in needed pieces. I'm not sure what we could offer (and be willing to offer) to pull him from Arizona.
Nashville has pretty consistently made great moves, but their lack of elite talent at center has kept them from being one of the powerhouses. That Kopitar, Toews, or Crosby type needed to log those big minutes. They've attempted to address that recently and, the impressive part, is that they accomplished it while still keeping a fantastic blueline. I'm not handing them the Cup or anything, but savvy trading has kept them relevant to their goals. That's the type of activity I think many of us here want to see out of our Red Wings management. We want to see a progression towards that goal of winning through more active moves.
We're approaching the 10 year anniversary of the last Cup. Pretty wild to think about how in that span we've seen zero meaningful trades. And it's also a grim reminder our mortality. Hug your children and call your parents today for me.
Oh boy. Like all these big trades, I don't see the Wings having the horses without gutting the current team. But damn, he's young enough you can still go all in on him. If you're optimistic about a 4-5 year turn around for the Wings, that puts OEL in his early 30's.
I'll argue the pieces the Red Wings need (#1 center, #1 defenseman) will never be available. The only trades worth making for Detroit right now and in the near future are acquiring more draft picks and prospects. Have you seen the cost of a top 4 defenseman? Trading to fill one hole creates another.That's the type of activity I think many of us here want to see out of our Red Wings management. We want to see a progression towards that goal of winning through more active moves.
I like David Poile a lot but it is probably worth noting the flavor of the month aspect of this here. Last year was the first time a team managed by him made it beyond the second round since 89-90 in Washington. So him busting his streak came at about the same time as the demise of our playoff streak....
I think he has had a wonderful career and he has had a different set of circumstances. But I mean I think it is worth pointing out while he has consistently built playoff teams, he hasn't actually had ultimate success.
Again I would love to have his Assistant GM as our next GM. But just saying Bench lets not get toooo carried away. Also Poile is a guy that gets compared to our GM at times by hockey insiders, they are pretty similar guys in my opinion.