Around the League Part 7: Hey Avs, Throw Us a Bone
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Navin R Slavin
Fifth line center
Novacane
Registered User
Breakdowns
Meh
His contract is ending soonish, if they wait even another year (or until deadline), there is no way that someone would pay more than last trade deadline or even this summer.
bleedgreen
Registered User
HisIceness
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It's one thing to be miserable in your current location. Happens all the time in pro sports.
It's another when it's your boyhood team and favorite player as your GM. Sakic should have done Duchene, and himself for that matter, a favor and traded him before it got to this point.
It's another when it's your boyhood team and favorite player as your GM. Sakic should have done Duchene, and himself for that matter, a favor and traded him before it got to this point.
bleedgreen
Registered User
I absolutely understand that. I just don't believe this has been a huge blunder by Sakic. The media got their hands on it and ran. Everyone assumes there's been a good offer but no one can produce a single one we know about. It's all assumptions based on rumors.
I'm sure they wanted one of Hanifin, Slavin or Pesce and we said no. I don't blame either side for that.
I'm sure they wanted one of Hanifin, Slavin or Pesce and we said no. I don't blame either side for that.
He shouldn't have made any of his efforts public, that was his mistake. Work the phones, talk to GMs at meetings, but don't comment in the press. If he had been more like Francis, I think he'd be better off now.
raynman
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I don't think he could look more miserable if he tried
Looks like a kid that hates school whose mom is making him take pictures on the first day of school.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
This situation with Duchene is one of the saddest things I've seen in hockey. We're watching "The Dream" disintegrate into a puff of ashes.
HisIceness
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https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/hockey/news/ryan-carter-announces-retirement/
Ryan Carter, aka the guy who was traded for Matt Kennedy and Stephan Chaput in 2010, and then was traded to Florida for Stillman, has retired.
Ryan Carter, aka the guy who was traded for Matt Kennedy and Stephan Chaput in 2010, and then was traded to Florida for Stillman, has retired.
I disagree with this statement. When your star player comes to camp with the attitude Duchene has, it is a clear lack of communication and direction. It doesn't set a good tone for the other players and fans. When you add on the terrible record last season, the lack of substantial offseason moves, and the Zadorov dispute, the appearance is a guy who doesn't have a grasp on his franchise.
As far as what is being offered by other teams, you're right in saying that we don't know what is being offered by other teams, but what has being clear is what Sakic's asking price is. He has asked for a young top 4 dman, a prospect, and a 1st. We've seen recent examples of how when players are demanding trades, it significantly reduces the asking price (ex. Kesler, Spezza). In addition, the teams most rumored for Duchene (NSH/CBJ) are seen as contenders, who are not likely to come off of a top line Dman that makes up the team's identity. And although I fought it for a while, I don't think worth trading Hanifin for 2 years Duchene, even though I haven't been overly impressed with him overall.
The reason I don't feel sorry for Colorado not getting their asking price is because they've ignored defense for a long time now. They chose for years to draft offense over defense, which to me is another sign of poor management.
To me, Sakic is out of options. Duchene clearly can't stay on that team, and they aren't going to get the type of deal that they want. So they're in the same position as Vancouver and Ottawa was when they had to trade their forwards. I think if they end up having to settle for prospects, Carolina can field a better package than any other team involved.
I guess the point to me is where the car is going (off a cliff), not who's driving. in that light, everyone involved has bungled it. it never should have gotten to this point.
bleedgreen
Registered User
He never made his efforts public. The rumor got out that he had been doing the work you mention behind the scenes with Duchene and maybe Landy. It took off from there and became assumed Duchene would be traded. Sakic never told anyone in public he was going to trade him.
bleedgreen
Registered User
How do we know there's no clear communication off of Duchene's appearance? He basically told the media to leave him alone so they won't distract the team. He may have been smiling in the pic a second before that, maybe the photographer told him to look forlorn and lost....seriously who cares but the pic is being over rated by everyone who is seeing it.
Zadorov wants to hold out for 500k? Let him sit. He's trying to take advantage of the team while Sakic is under scrutiny and pressure. Screw him if he wants play that game, I support Sakic 100% on that. That is absolutely how you handle that situation.
I don't understand all the criticism of the lack of off season moves. Have we forgotten our own past? No one gives up good players for bad ones. Trading the few young assets you have for a vet gets you nowhere. No one wants to sign with a losing team. I get fans of other teams not picking up on that but OUR fans?! You're killing me. I have no idea what moves people think Sakic had available to him. They have young d coming, and few people that watch the team believe that a healthy version of this team could do as poorly again if they tried. Jost looks great, Compher and Greer are likely regulars and Kerfoot has turned some heads in rookie camp. They have a future similar to ours and Sakic is doing the same thing we just did, and getting crucified for it where Francis gets kudos.
As for asking price we don't really even know that, just media reports. Sakic has said they want to get younger and faster, that's it. We all assume he wants d because they have poor d and the media tells us he wants a young defenseman. We don't even know for sure he wants more than that, we just think it. He asked for the moon like all gm's in that position do. We don't even know that he shopped Duchene in the first place as much as started listening to calls on Duchene and Landy, and attached the prices we heard in return. There was no trade demand back then so how it was it wrong to ask for the moon? We have no idea what the price has been since, and no idea on what these offers he's said no to are.
Criticizing another team for not drafting d?!? How quickly we forget. The avs have drafted d, though they haven't taken them high like we have. Has that paid off for us? Not yet really. Slavin and Pesce were mid round miracles, let's not get cocky and wag fingers at other teams for their stupidity compared to our brilliance. If those two didn't show up we'd still have one of the worst d's in the league. We'd have Faulk, Fleury, Hanifin and another top 5 pick.
Sakic has two plays. Pander to the media and fans with a mediocre trade or hold out for more. I respect him for holding out for more. He doesn't owe us or the media anything. Do the best you can for your team and screw everyone else. Duchene is a big boy, get your game face on and enjoy your healthy paycheck living in a great city. He's not the first player in a tough situation.
The whole model for management was off when they created the Roy/Sakic monster in the first place. They looked at Yzerman and wanted that maybe. Yzerman apprenticed for years before he got his gig where Sakic did not. He's learning on the job. He's not an idiot. I hated the ROR trade, and retrospectively I think he does too which may play a role here. I think he's doing the best he can in a tough spot, and I think he's making the right choice of riding out the storm. It worked great for us so far.
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bleedgreen
Registered User
bleed why can't Sakic just be an idiot, have completely bungled the situation, and trade us Duchene for Fleury and a pick?
Who was it hurting?
Who was it hurting?
bleedgreen
Registered User
I wish!! I've always liked Duchene. Such a happy go lucky kid who really loves the game. Obviously needs a new start, and maybe a new set of expectations. He's not a ppg guy in today's game, but 60 plus for a few years is easily in reach. Maybe 70.
That might be the price in the end the way it's going, though I hope for the Av's they get something respectable.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
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Yeah, when a guy the stature of Duchene is being offered up to other teams, there's no way a team keeps that quite no matter how hard they try. Sure, if you want to quietly offer him to 1 or 2 teams and just take back whatever you can get, then maybe, but if you are offering him to the rest of the NHL, it's going to leak out no matter what. At that point, you have to be straight up with Matt and not beat around the bush.
I really think Duchene's frustration comes from the fact that he thought things would be settled by now. It had to be a shock to learn that he was being shopped by the only team he's ever played for and a childhood favorite at that, but once he gets over that, he now just wants to get on with it, which is understandably frustrating. I don't see any issues in the room though. He's not pissed at coaches or teammates.
Boom Boom Apathy
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I know many fans don't want to give up what it would take to get Duchene, but it's going to suck badly if he ends up on another team in the metro, at least until Tavares is a Cane.
Vagrant
The Czech Condor
The way Duchene played the lame duck games after the trade deadline should have been all the incentive needed to get him out of there before it kept getting uglier. One of the things that turned me off of Carolina trading for him was the perception that he really packed it in during those final games as a message to the organization that the situation wasn't going to improve. I said it back when these rumors first started to surface that it gave me pause that he's the type of kid that would handle his dissatisfaction this way and the situation has only eroded from there. The more snotty Duchene comes off, the worse it gets for Sakic in trying to find an ideal return for him. I don't and won't pretend to know what kind of offers have been/are out there for Duchene, but this matter needs to be settled for the betterment of both sides. It's about as mutually untenable as relationships come. I don't know if Sakic hoped that an offseason would get the sour taste out of Duchene's mouth about losing so much last year or what, but it's just not going to work out there. The worst thing you can do is hold a player that doesn't want to be with you to the point he starts acting out and distracting the rest of the group from the mission. I just don't see a resolution that ends with Duchene being happy there and he has the option to walk way too soon to gamble on a change of heart. Even waiting until the deadline has its downsides as it pertains to trying to get max value. While the market will be more aggressive, the limited amount of negotiation time might offset that. And it's also assuming Duchene plays good enough to justify a hefty return.
I think the general attitude from everyone is let's just get on with it. We all know how this relationship is ending. Do your homework. Get your best offer. Maybe you'll be surprised at how competitive it gets when something gets close to done.
I think the general attitude from everyone is let's just get on with it. We all know how this relationship is ending. Do your homework. Get your best offer. Maybe you'll be surprised at how competitive it gets when something gets close to done.
Yeah, unfortunately Columbus makes the most sense of any team IMO. They can easily give up Ryan Murray or a blue chip prospect (Dubois). They are one of the best teams in the league with a hole at 1C. Just added Panarin. Scary team with Duchene added.
Bunch of Jurcos
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HisIceness
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