Around the League Part 7: Hey Avs, Throw Us a Bone

[Cardiac Jerks]

What is Florida doing?

 

[Unsustainable]

What is Florida doing?

Fallin for Dahlin?

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Fallin for Dahlin?

They looked like a team on their way up, stacked with great young prospects. I get they lost a lot of scoring this summer but McGinn isn't going to do much to replace that.

 

[Negan4Coach]

The way Duchene played the lame duck games after the trade deadline should have been all the incentive needed to get him out of there before it kept getting uglier. One of the things that turned me off of Carolina trading for him was the perception that he really packed it in during those final games as a message to the organization that the situation wasn't going to improve. I said it back when these rumors first started to surface that it gave me pause that he's the type of kid that would handle his dissatisfaction this way and the situation has only eroded from there. The more snotty Duchene comes off, the worse it gets for Sakic in trying to find an ideal return for him. I don't and won't pretend to know what kind of offers have been/are out there for Duchene, but this matter needs to be settled for the betterment of both sides. It's about as mutually untenable as relationships come. I don't know if Sakic hoped that an offseason would get the sour taste out of Duchene's mouth about losing so much last year or what, but it's just not going to work out there. The worst thing you can do is hold a player that doesn't want to be with you to the point he starts acting out and distracting the rest of the group from the mission. I just don't see a resolution that ends with Duchene being happy there and he has the option to walk way too soon to gamble on a change of heart. Even waiting until the deadline has its downsides as it pertains to trying to get max value. While the market will be more aggressive, the limited amount of negotiation time might offset that. And it's also assuming Duchene plays good enough to justify a hefty return.

I think the general attitude from everyone is let's just get on with it. We all know how this relationship is ending. Do your homework. Get your best offer. Maybe you'll be surprised at how competitive it gets when something gets close to done.

I agree. I'm glad we didn't deplete the D to get the posterboy of whiny Millenial- it was bad enough to have to deal with Eric's pouting when things didn't go well.

Duchene needs to **** and just play for the money he's been given. And I think Sack is a moron for not taking the best deal he could get earlier this year- this situation can't possibly get any better for him.

 

[Novacane]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2388641

 

[HisIceness]

They looked like a team on their way up, stacked with great young prospects. I get they lost a lot of scoring this summer but McGinn isn't going to do much to replace that.

I still don't get why they fired Gallant last December.

 

[HisIceness]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2388641

This could get interesting

 

[MinJaBen]

What is Florida doing?

Meanwhile in Florida...local paper says "Nah, were done with the stick-puck coverage."

 

[CandyCanes]

Meanwhile in Florida...local paper says "Nah, were done with the stick-puck coverage."

That sucks for them.

I just think how much of a shame it'd be if the News & Observer ever drops Chip Alexander's Canes coverage. He seems to be the only guy that can pull insight on the team consisentely before any news actually breaks.

 

[NotOpie]

I agree that it is Sakic's job to get the best deal he can....if his goal is to trade Duchene. But a quick look at that roster shows a forward corps that could be on the rise. They need some help on the back end. They've got Bigras and Meloche waiting in the wings and, personally, I think they both have long term potential to be very good.

Still, the asking price was ridiculous. Reports ranged widely but NHL- top 4 young defenseman, top prospect, a 1st round draft pick, and a variety of other alleged assets was just too much. That might not have been what was actually asked for, but if memory serves, NYI had a deal on the table that included Harmonic, Barzal, and a 1st (plus maybe another asset) and the rumor was that was turned down because 2 first rounders were being demanded.

If I were Sakic, I'd shore up my defense with NHL ready guys now, maybe move a pick and a prospect for that young defender or better yet, a real goalie. With MacKinnon, Duchene, Landeskog, Rantanen, plus Compher, Greer, and especially Jost, there's the making of a pretty nice young core.

Change the narrative and who knows how things play out.

 

[bleedgreen]

Barzal was never involved. The whole thing was later denied totally but that's irrelevant on the main board.

I highly doubt the price was ever really that high, and that it is now. I think he can still get a good young dman and maybe some other pieces.

Yes, they've actually got some good things going on with the core. Don't tell anyone Sakic was around for any of it though.

 

[NotOpie]

Barzal was never involved. The whole thing was later denied totally but that's irrelevant on the main board.

I highly doubt the price was ever really that high, and that it is now. I think he can still get a good young dman and maybe some other pieces.

Yes, they've actually got some good things going on with the core. Don't tell anyone Sakic was around for any of it though.

Yeah, there were so many versions of that particular rumor. But I think the point still stands....when all the reports basically said a player, an A prospect, and a couple of picks....it sounds out of bounds.

That said, I think he could yield a good young NHL'er, a #1 pick, and potentially a mid-level prospect, but even then I think there's something else coming back. Personally, I think if he could get a 24-25 year old NHL defender (2nd pairing or so) a 1st round pick, and something else, it feels like fair value. In the end, I think he'll yield a 3 for two type of deal where a 3rd or 4th rounder goes back the other way to justify a better prospect coming back to CO. Just my two cents worth....

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Yeah, there were so many versions of that particular rumor. But I think the point still stands....when all the reports basically said a player, an A prospect, and a couple of picks....it sounds out of bounds.

I don't think it's out of bounds. A player, a prospect and a couple of picks could be totally different things with totally different value depending on the team. Many people are acting like that is some insane price without even knowing who the player and prospect is and where the pick is in the draft.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Meanwhile in Florida...local paper says "Nah, were done with the stick-puck coverage."

That sucks for them.

I just think how much of a shame it'd be if the News & Observer ever drops Chip Alexander's Canes coverage. He seems to be the only guy that can pull insight on the team consisentely before any news actually breaks.

It should be noted that the Herald is the 2nd-largest newspaper in South Florida and has been largely supplanted by the Ft. Lauderdale-based South Florida Sun-Sentinel as the area's major paper. The Sun-Sentinel is still covering the Panthers, FWIW.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I don't think it's out of bounds. A player, a prospect and a couple of picks could be totally different things with totally different value depending on the team. Many people are acting like that is some insane price without even knowing who the player and prospect is and where the pick is in the draft.

Multiple GMs have publicly commented that Sakic wants too much for Duchene, from the demure Francis to the bombastic Marc Bergevin ("Some people want a battleboat for a kayak").

 

[Finnish Jerk Train]

Multiple GMs have publicly commented that Sakic wants too much for Duchene, from the demure Francis to the bombastic Marc Bergevin ("Some people want a battleboat for a kayak").

Stealing this.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Multiple GMs have publicly commented that Sakic wants too much for Duchene, from the demure Francis to the bombastic Marc Bergevin ("Some people want a battleboat for a kayak").

Well, it's clear he's asking for more than other GM's (at least until this point) are willing to give up or he'd already be moved. That wasn't my point though. Just because a guys initial asking price is high doesn't mean:

a) that it's out of bounds

-OR-

b) that's what he'll stick to when all is said and done.

Yet the mantra on HF is "OMG, Sakic is an idiot if he thinks he can get that." It's just part of the process. He has Duchene under contract for 2 more years and while it may not be optimal for the relationship between Duchene and Sakic, he has to get the best deal he can, even if that means waiting.

And each GM has a unique situation. Francis is concerned about the ability to re-sign him so doesn't want to give up a Hanifin type player with that risk. That's not the same concern as another GM from a bigger market may have. Will be interesting to see this play out. Waiting it out may indeed come back to bite Sakic in the ass, but I personally don't think that him asking a high price to start and then waiting it out is out of bounds. Given that Duchene had such a crappy season last year, it may work out better if Duchene bounces back.

 

[geehaad]

Waiting it out may indeed come back to bite Sakic in the ass, but I personally don't think that him asking a high price to start and then waiting it out is out of bounds.

Oh, but we're no longer at the simple starting point, or operating principle. It's no longer simply an attempted trade that didn't work out. It's now a public issue that people continually ask questions about. For Duchene's part, he's done nothing to bring this upon himself, and he's not only been put in this ****** position by Sakic, the ****** position continues to worsen the longer Sakic waits it out. THAT is what is out of bounds.

It's ****ing stupidity on Sakic's part. Full stop.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

How are we supposed to interpret "battleboat for a kayak" as anything other than out of bounds, or insane, or ridiculous?

Yeah, the price will come down, or some GM will get desperate and cave. It's clear that's what Sakic is hoping for, that's why he's been shifting the goal posts from the trade deadline to the draft to training camp for a Duchene deal to get done. I'm just pointing out, it's not only rabid fans on HF who are acting as if Sakic is insane, people who have heard what he wants first hand are also taking that opinion.

Oh, but we're no longer at the simple starting point, or operating principle. It's no longer simply an attempted trade that didn't work out. It's now a public issue that people continually ask questions about. For Duchene's part, he's done nothing to bring this upon himself, and he's not only been put in this ****** position by Sakic, the ****** position continues to worsen the longer Sakic waits it out. THAT is what is out of bounds.

It's ****ing stupidity on Sakic's part. Full stop.

Whenever Skinner's name has come up in the media, Francis will deny it, full stop. "No, there are no discussions about trading Skins, we love Jeff, blah blah blah". Literally the closest he has come to saying, "We are shopping Skinner" is, after Peters' first year, he said something to the effect of, "We're not shopping him, but after the year we just had we'd be fools to not listen to offers on anyone".

Sakic can't even get the denial part down. It's standard operating procedure to deny everything unless you think you can gain something from the leak, and he can't do it. It's why this has blown up in the media, whenever he's asked about it he'll give an update, or something a far cry from a full fledged denial. If the Avs are going to retain Sakic, they need to send him to a crash course in how to handle the media pronto.

Same at the draft where he said that he'd rather have Heiskannen than Makar. WTF, who says that??? You have Burke who says he thinks Reily has Hall of Fame potential or whatever ridiculous statement he said. Or the Hurricanes, who despite picking in the 7th-12th range constantly somehow magically able to land guys top-5 on their board year after year.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

How are we supposed to interpret "battleboat for a kayak" as anything other than out of bounds, or insane, or ridiculous?

Meh, some GM's like to spout off when they don't get their own way? Or try to use the press to their advantage? Or just like to hear themselves talk.

Francis clearly said he didn't want to give up one of his good, young players for 2 years of a guy. That make sense to me, but Sakic asking for a good young player for Duchene makes sense also.

Yeah, the price will come down, or some GM will get desperate and cave. It's clear that's what Sakic is hoping for, that's why he's been shifting the goal posts from the trade deadline to the draft to training camp for a Duchene deal to get done. I'm just pointing out, it's not only rabid fans on HF who are acting as if Sakic is insane, people who have heard what he wants first hand are also taking that opinion.

Fair enough.

 

[bleedgreen]

Read an interview with Sakic from yesterday or so. He's in no rush to get anything done. He doesn't seem to care what the media thinks of what's going on or what the world has interpreted of the situation. He'll make the trade when he feels it makes sense and not before. Good for him.

What a couple of gm's have said is meaningless. Francis never said he was crazy, he just said we're not paying the price. Which is fine with me. Sounds like sour grapes from Bergevin, who's got enough issues in his own house.

 

[Penaltykiller17]

Read an interview with Sakic from yesterday or so. He's in no rush to get anything done. He doesn't seem to care what the media thinks of what's going on or what the world has interpreted of the situation. He'll make the trade when he feels it makes sense and not before. Good for him.

What a couple of gm's have said is meaningless. Francis never said he was crazy, he just said we're not paying the price. Which is fine with me. Sounds like sour grapes from Bergevin, who's got enough issues in his own house.

His best deal has past. It may or may not have been overblown by media, but history and time is not on his side. He'll likely have to settle like Vancouver did with Kesler, and Ottawa did with Spezza.

 

[bleedgreen]

Then he has to settle. I was just glad to see he was completely unaffected by all the negative talk about him. I really do think he'll get at least one really good piece back, maybe more. Everything thinks these things affect value, im not always convinced.

 

[Penaltykiller17]

Then he has to settle. I was just glad to see he was completely unaffected by all the negative talk about him. I really do think he'll get at least one really good piece back, maybe more. Everything thinks these things affect value, im not always convinced.

When major media outlets and the player put pressure on you, then yes I believe it affects the value. All of his dirty laundry is being aired in public, and the market has always determined player's value. Most of the rumored teams see themselves as Cup contenders, and they're not going to give up a valuable, top 4 defender that could change the whole makeup of the team.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Read an interview with Sakic from yesterday or so. He's in no rush to get anything done. He doesn't seem to care what the media thinks of what's going on or what the world has interpreted of the situation. He'll make the trade when he feels it makes sense and not before. Good for him.

And the player that's patiently waiting for said trade, screw him, yeah?