Tidbits: Around the League: NHL News

[2Pair]

You and I aren't going to agree here.

You can't force people to have surgery.

Where in the world are you getting the idea that anyone is forcing surgery on anyone?

 

[TaLoN]

Where in the world are you getting the idea that anyone is forcing surgery on anyone?

Calling it a loophole because he didn't have surgery sooner is just that.

 

[2Pair]

Calling it a loophole because he didn't have surgery sooner is just that.

Do you really not understand the conversation? Timing the rehab and recovery to allow the lightning to enter the playoffs with an $90M+ salary team is 100% taking advantage of a terrible loophole.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

The loophole that needs closing is really painfully obvious. Make it a rule that a player can't finish the season on LTIR and be eligible for the playoffs. Any chance of trying to manipulate the salary cap instantly disappears.

Not a fan of this.

 

[TaLoN]

Do you really not understand the conversation? Timing the rehab and recovery to allow the lightning to enter the playoffs with an $90M+ salary team is 100% taking advantage of a terrible loophole.

As I said, you and I aren't going to agree on this.

 

[2Pair]

As I said, you and I aren't going to agree on this.

Clearly you don't even understand the discussion. Talking about forced surgery makes zero sense.

Not a fan of this.

Why is that? Making a team take a guy off of LTIR for the last day of the season effects nothing unless your plan is to manipulate the salary cap.

 

[TaLoN]

I understand the conversation just fine, I just disagree with your opinion.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Why is that? Making a team take a guy off of LTIR for the last day of the season effects nothing unless your plan is to manipulate the salary cap.

Never mind. Misunderstood it a little.

Doesn’t TB still have to be cap compliant, counting Kucherov, on the 1st day of the season? Or am I making that up.

 

[AKL]

I understand the conversation just fine, I just disagree with your opinion.

It's not like the situation is unprecedented. Again, Chicago and Kane did something very similar several years ago, and Chicago went on to win a Cup.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I just have a hard time believing that Kucherov volunteered to miss the season. Guys want to play.

 

[TaLoN]

Never mind. Misunderstood it a little.

Doesn’t TB still have to be cap compliant, counting Kucherov, on the 1st day of the season? Or am I making that up.

You're not making that up

 

[2Pair]

I understand the conversation just fine, I just disagree with your opinion.

You keep saying that you understand it, but you also keep talking about forcing Kucherov to have surgery. Those two ideas don't add up.

Never mind. Misunderstood it a little.

Doesn’t TB still have to be cap compliant, counting Kucherov, on the 1st day of the season? Or am I making that up.

Not as far as I understand it

 

[TaLoN]

It's not like the situation is unprecedented. Again, Chicago and Kane did something very similar several years ago, and Chicago went on to win a Cup.

Not at all similar, as Kane was injured during the season. LTIR allowed them to make trades at the deadline they otherwise couldn't have made.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I just have a hard time believing that Kucherov volunteered to miss the season. Guys want to play.

My guess is that he was likely going to miss an extended period of time with the injury regardless, so it might’ve more been selling him on missing 10 or so games and using the extra time to ramp up for the playoffs.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Not as far as I understand it

Could’ve sworn I heard that somewhere.

 

[AKL]

Never mind. Misunderstood it a little.

Doesn’t TB still have to be cap compliant, counting Kucherov, on the 1st day of the season? Or am I making that up.

You're not making that up

Don't think that's the case, otherwise Tampa still has to move 12M in cap in 3 weeks.

 

[AKL]

My guess is that he was likely going to miss an extended period of time with the injury regardless, so it might’ve more been selling him on missing 10 or so games and using the extra time to ramp up for the playoffs.

This is precisely the case.

"Hey man, you're gonna miss 46 games, what do you say we just keep you out the other 10 games, be extra safe, and help the team out as well?"

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

My guess is that he was likely going to miss an extended period of time with the injury regardless, so it might’ve more been selling him on missing 10 or so games and using the extra time to ramp up for the playoffs.

But isn’t the idea that he “could’ve” had the surgery back in October but didn’t? The missed time would’ve been minimal then.

 

[2Pair]

I just have a hard time believing that Kucherov volunteered to miss the season. Guys want to play.

Where does this thought come from? Kucherov is injured. Kucherov is going to have to rehab that injury for a certain amount of time. All that he "volunteered" for was the time frame for that to happen. One option gets him back for what, maybe 25 games? That option also destroys his chance at another cup. The other option gives him an easier rehab and he comes back right into the playoffs. Ask how many NHLer's if they would like to skip the regular season and only ever play playoff games.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Where does this thought come from? Kucherov is injured. Kucherov is going to have to rehab that injury for a certain amount of time. All that he "volunteered" for was the time frame for that to happen. One option gets him back for what, maybe 25 games? That option also destroys his chance at another cup. The other option gives him an easier rehab and he comes back right into the playoffs. Ask how many NHLer's if they would like to skip the regular season and only ever play playoff games.

From your 4th sentence.

I honestly don’t think the number of NHLers would be all that high.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

But isn’t the idea that he “could’ve” had the surgery back in October but didn’t? The missed time would’ve been minimal then.

If the injury existed/was that severe at that point sure. Sounds like they thought it would respond to rehab but didn’t.

 

[TaLoN]

Don't think that's the case, otherwise Tampa still has to move 12M in cap in 3 weeks.

Yup, you're correct... this is from LTIR FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Can LTIR be used in the off-season?
Yes, LTIR can be used in the off-season while the 10% off-season cushion is active. LTIR in the off-season is calculated using the basic equation outlined above, which permits a team to exceed the off-season salary cap. To use off-season LTIR the team must provide doctors proof that the player in question will continue to be injured at the beginning of the regular season for 10 NHL games and 24 calendar days.

At the start of the season the teams LTIR relief & ACSL is recalculated when the 10% cushion is removed.

If the injury existed/was that severe at that point sure. Sounds like they thought it would respond to rehab but didn’t.

Doctors almost always advise rehab as an option if they think it will work. Surgery is a very invasive procedure that doctors will try to avoid if they think they can.

That's why Zach kept trying rehab before it became beyond obvious that only surgery would improve his back.

 

[grN1g]

Obviously you can't force anyone to do anything, especially going under the knife.

But you try and tell me TB didn't ask him to hold off on getting surgery for 1. Will a season even happen? but 2. If it does can we use your rehab as a way to fix our problems so we don't dismantle key core players?

They definitely asked him if they could and he let them.

 

[P10p]

You keep saying that you understand it, but you also keep talking about forcing Kucherov to have surgery. Those two ideas don't add up.


Not as far as I understand it

You clearly dont understand. You saying there should be a rule on when surgery must occur is akin to forcing a player to have surgery. Something noone agrees with.

The surgical option isnt always presented as the first or best option anyways. In plenty of cases, doctors can attempt to rehab the injury before going to the more drastic surgery option.

This is exactly what happened with Kuch. Doctors thought he could rehab/work through it, realizing recently that the surgery option is the best way to go.

But sure, boil medical science down to "if you dont get surgery right away or by this date, it's a loophole"

 

[2Pair]

You clearly dont understand. You saying there should be a rule on when surgery must occur is akin to forcing a player to have surgery. Something noone agrees with.

The surgical option isnt always presented as the first or best option anyways. In plenty of cases, doctors can attempt to rehab the injury before going to the more drastic surgery option.

This is exactly what happened with Kuch. Doctors thought he could rehab/work through it, realizing recently that the surgery option is the best way to go.

But sure, boil medical science down to "if you dont get surgery right away or by this date, it's a loophole"

You couldn't be more lost in this conversation. It's not even worth trying to explain it to you. "forced surgery" "medical science"? Holy shit bud.