Around the League: It Smells Like Hockey!

[TheTotalPackage]

This whole ice time thing is blown way out of proportion. McDavid, MacKinnon, Eichel...they all usually get 20+ minutes a game. Big deal. They are young and talented and are more than capable playing that much. Not to mention why wouldn't you want to run your players out there as much as they can handle?

If Babcock wants to be cute with Matthews' ice time, so be it. Stupid if you ask me, but whatever. Matthews is 21 and one of the top talents in the game. I think it's ridiculous that he isn't run out there more to be honest.

 

[notDatsyuk]

This whole ice time thing is blown way out of proportion. McDavid, MacKinnon, Eichel...they all usually get 20+ minutes a game. Big deal. They are young and talented and are more than capable playing that much. Not to mention why wouldn't you want to run your players out there as much as they can handle?

If Babcock wants to be cute with Matthews' ice time, so be it. Stupid if you ask me, but whatever. Matthews is 21 and one of the top talents in the game. I think it's ridiculous that he isn't run out there more to be honest.

Part of why McDavid gets so much ice time is that nobody else on the team is anywhere near as good, and are not producing.p

If we give Matthews 22 minutes per game, that means 4 minutes less for Tavares or Kadri. Tavares, for the same reason as McDavid, played 21+ in New York, and people are already complaining that Kadri needs more ice time (and better linemates) to be productive.

Do you tell the highest paid player on the team that, although he's already getting less ice time than before, you want to cut it more? Do you tell the guy who was your second line center, and who is struggling to score with less ice time than before, you want to cut it more?

I don't think there is an easy answer, because with all the talent on the team, it's a real juggling act.

The easiest and best way to get more ice time for everyone is to play more games, specifically more playoff games.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[stickty111]

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Barzal update:

8 games played...still 7 shots on goal.

He has 8 points ie 1 goal and 7 assists. Has a player ever had more points than shots on goal in a season? He's on pace for 82 points and 72 shots on goal. For an unrelated comparison D), Tavares is on pace for 311 shots and 58 goals.

A big reason the kid dropped in the draft was many said he would never be a goal scorer.

 

[IBeL34f]

Barzal update:

8 games played...still 7 shots on goal.

He has 8 points ie 1 goal and 7 assists. Has a player ever had more points than shots on goal in a season? He's on pace for 82 points and 72 shots on goal.

A big reason the kid dropped in the draft was many said he would never be a goal scorer.

You're ripping on a PPG player because he doesn't shoot enough? I got tired of Mess' constant tire-pumping of the kid just like anybody else, but I don't see any reason to belittle a player just because they're a playmaker and not a goal-scorer.
It's like when people call Nylander a 20-goal scorer instead of a 60-point scorer - It's not technically wrong, but it's pretty obviously ignorance of more-important statistics in order to paint a specific picture.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Please point out these examples of me "ripping the kid".

All i thought I was doing was showing his stats. It's not my fault Barzal has 7 shots on goal in 8 games and will likely struggle to hit 20 this year.

If you want to see people ripping Barzal...go to the Barzal thread in the isles forum. There you can tell them to stop ripping him.

 

[IBeL34f]

Please point out these examples of me "ripping the kid".

All i thought I was doing was showing his stats. It's not my fault Barzal has 7 shots on goal in 8 games and will likely struggle to hit 20 this year.

If you want to see people ripping Barzal...go to the Barzal thread in the isles forum. There you can tell them to stop ripping him.

More than one post talking solely about his ratio of shots to points, and the listing of an arbitrary goal total that you don't believe he'll hit? Sure, it might not be the kind of open bashing that'll get you an infraction on the main boards, but that doesn't mean the message isn't transparent.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

What hidden "message" is that? Barzal isn't having a good start to the season and he can't get pucks to the net? There's no hidden anything there. That is exactly what is happening.

Here's a link to the Barzal thread in the Isles forum...go ask them about their hidden agenda "ripping him":

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/mathew-barzal-2018-19.2528729/page-15

I'll check in later where i will expect to see you admonishing them in the same way you have me.

In the interim, I'll ask you to refrain from telling me I can't bring information here because you have your head up your ass. And if I want to rip Barzal for any reason I'll just go ahead and do that whether you like it or not.

 

[IBeL34f]

What hidden "message" is that? Barzal isn't having a good start to the season and he can't get pucks to the net? There's no hidden anything there. That is exactly what is happening.

Here's a link to the Barzal thread in the Isles forum...go ask them about their hidden agenda "ripping him":

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/mathew-barzal-2018-19.2528729/page-15

I'll check in later where i will expect to see you admonishing them in the same way you have me.

In the interim, I'll ask you to refrain from telling me I can't bring information here because you have your head up your ass. And if I want to rip Barzal for any reason I'll just go ahead and do that whether you like it or not.

PPG to start the season on a team like the Islanders? Sounds like a real bad start to me.

Also, I never said anything about whether or not you could "bring information here" - Just because you can post whatever you like doesn't mean it's protected from criticism.

Edit - Also also, I popped over to the link you provided and all I can see is posts about him driving the net more this year, looking like an even better skater than he did previously, and about how he's obviously playing against tougher defensive match-ups now and that he'll have to learn how to overcome the extra adversity in his new situation. One person mentioned his 7 shots, and no one responded or seemed to care.

 

[Sweet Leaf]

Why do you continue to argue with me instead of Islander fans? They are saying the same things and, unlike you and me, watch all the games. Here is another thread form their GDT yesterday where the entire last page is basically talking about how Barzal does not look good and needs to make changes:

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/thre...ctober-24th-7-00-pm-f-otl-3-2.2559803/page-16

Again, he has 7 SOG in 8 games. This is horrible for a 1 center and guy who runs the PP. It's terrible for any forward actually. He's also fallen behind in PPG now ie 7 pts in 8 games. He's on pace for a 10 goal 60 assist season. He's on pace for a 72 shot season.

Again, I suggest you take your disgust to the Islander board since they are being way more critical than I am and watch all his games.

Edited to add: Missed your edit. I'm glad you checked. Check out the GDT too. If you can't admit that there isn't one thing I said that some Islander fans aren't also validating you're not being honest. As you can see, there are real concerns among the fan base and we'd have the same concerns if Tavares or Matthews had 7 shots in 8 games

 

[IBeL34f]

Why do you continue to argue with me instead of Islander fans? They are saying the same things and, unlike you and me, watch all the games. Here is another thread form their GDT yesterday where the entire last page is basically talking about how Barzal does not look good and needs to make changes:

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/thre...ctober-24th-7-00-pm-f-otl-3-2.2559803/page-16

Again, he has 7 SOG in 8 games. This is horrible for a 1 center and guy who runs the PP. It's terrible for any forward actually. He's also fallen behind in PPG now ie 7 pts in 8 games. He's on pace for a 10 goal 60 assist season. He's on pace for a 72 shot season.

Again, I suggest you take your disgust to the Islander board since they are being way more critical than I am and watch all his games.

I don't go to other teams' boards - If an Islanders fan wanted to come here and say the kind of stuff you're saying about Barzal, I'd probably say the same things to them, too. This is a 2nd-year player who is a playmaker first, and he's up against the toughest competition he's ever faced, on a crap team - He's gonna have to face some adversity, and the Islanders fans that I've seen (through the thread you provided) seemed pretty understanding of that. If that player is still putting up PPG, then I would consider that a pretty decent start.

 

[stickty111]

Barzal update:

8 games played...still 7 shots on goal.

He has 8 points ie 1 goal and 7 assists. Has a player ever had more points than shots on goal in a season? He's on pace for 82 points and 72 shots on goal. For an unrelated comparison D), Tavares is on pace for 311 shots and 58 goals.

A big reason the kid dropped in the draft was many said he would never be a goal scorer.

Please point out these examples of me "ripping the kid".

All i thought I was doing was showing his stats. It's not my fault Barzal has 7 shots on goal in 8 games and will likely struggle to hit 20 this year.

If you want to see people ripping Barzal...go to the Barzal thread in the isles forum. There you can tell them to stop ripping him.

What hidden "message" is that? Barzal isn't having a good start to the season and he can't get pucks to the net? There's no hidden anything there. That is exactly what is happening.

Here's a link to the Barzal thread in the Isles forum...go ask them about their hidden agenda "ripping him":

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/mathew-barzal-2018-19.2528729/page-15

I'll check in later where i will expect to see you admonishing them in the same way you have me.

In the interim, I'll ask you to refrain from telling me I can't bring information here because you have your head up your ass. And if I want to rip Barzal for any reason I'll just go ahead and do that whether you like it or not.

I felt there was something suspicious about his goal totals last year. It shouldnt be a surprise he is struggling to score or create for himself. His goal scoring last year was likely a one hit wonder. He wasnt much of a goal scorer in the WHL, so it seemed odd that he scored 21 in his rookie season. It looks he is regressing back to what his WHL career indicated.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Barzal update:

8 games played...still 7 shots on goal.

He has 8 points ie 1 goal and 7 assists. Has a player ever had more points than shots on goal in a season? He's on pace for 82 points and 72 shots on goal. For an unrelated comparison D), Tavares is on pace for 311 shots and 58 goals.

A big reason the kid dropped in the draft was many said he would never be a goal scorer.

visualize marner with no Matthews, Tavares, kadri, Willie, etc ... how would he do?

 

[Schenn]

Mcdavid's hair is ridiculous. Ha

 

[CanadasTeam]

Wilson (also Marchand) will be thinking twice before doing any monkey business...

 

[-DeMo-]

I felt there was something suspicious about his goal totals last year. It shouldnt be a surprise he is struggling to score or create for himself. His goal scoring last year was likely a one hit wonder. He wasnt much of a goal scorer in the WHL, so it seemed odd that he scored 21 in his rookie season. It looks he is regressing back to what his WHL career indicated.

if you've watched Barzal play this simply isn't the case he constantly gives up great opportunities to shoot for passes. it's 1 of his criticisms as a player. he needs to be more selfish at times.

 

[IBeL34f]

visualize marner with no Matthews, Tavares, kadri, Willie, etc ... how would he do?

You mean "22-goal" Mitch Marner? Am I doing this right?

 

[Mr Hockey]

You mean "22-goal" Mitch Marner? Am I doing this right?

umm, yea?

 

[FlareKnight]

if you've watched Barzal play this simply isn't the case he constantly gives up great opportunities to shoot for passes. it's 1 of his criticisms as a player. he needs to be more selfish at times.

Doesn't sound like an unusual dilemma for a player that is primarily a playmaker. Get too focused on setting up others and passing up opportunities to shoot. Not necessarily working against him right now since he might end up a point per game player again. Just this time almost entirely with assists .

 

[IBeL34f]

umm, yea?

Sorry, that wasn't meant to detract from your post at all - It was just my passive-aggressive jab at the trend I'm seeing lately of focusing on playmakers' (namely Barzal, in this case, or Nylander in other threads) goal totals, rather than their full scope of offensive production, when discussing their abilities or value.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Sorry, that wasn't meant to detract from your post at all - It was just my passive-aggressive jab at the trend I'm seeing lately of focusing on playmakers' (namely Barzal, in this case, or Nylander in other threads) goal totals, rather than their full scope of offensive production, when discussing their abilities or value.

but people don't go XX-point getter though. Ever. or if it has i've never seen it stated as such.
it's always been. 20 goal scorer/30-goal scorer etc etc.
if you're a playmaker, you're "the playmaker."
and regardless if you are a playmaker or not, i'd gather for the most part, it's kinda important to have at least 20 or so goals.

so... i'm not really seeing the issue.

 

[Nineteen67]

Wilson (also Marchand) will be thinking twice before doing any monkey business...

I hope Wilson learns from this.

When he stays on the sane side of the line he’s one of my favourite players to watch.

 

[Mr Hockey]

I hope Wilson learns from this.

When he stays on the sane side of the line he’s one of my favorite players to watch.

im sure he will, Ovie used to destroy people with his hits! he was forced to stop it. He will have a chat with Wilson.

 

[IBeL34f]

but people don't go XX-point getter though. Ever. or if it has i've never seen it stated as such.
it's always been. 20 goal scorer/30-goal scorer etc etc.
if you're a playmaker, you're "the playmaker."
and regardless if you are a playmaker or not, i'd gather for the most part, it's kinda important to have at least 20 or so goals.

so... i'm not really seeing the issue.

Really? I talk about players that way all the time, and their overall offensive totals are easily the most common way I see people refer to players' production, unless there's a reason they're trying to single out a specific stat.

The OP "compared" 8 games of a point-per-game 2nd-year playmaker's shots and goals on a rebuilding team to a 9-year veteran scorer who has paced 30 or more goals in the last 8 of them - You don't see why that seems a little loaded? Barzal has obvious, insane skill, and it makes no sense at all to me to post "updates" about this PPG sophomore as if he's having some rough start to his season, when he's actually his team's top point-producer. Scoring goals isn't everything, and if we had Barzal on our team we'd be singing his praises.