Around the League 27: Why u do dis Dolan?

[Finlandia WOAT]

They ruined their relationship with their franchise center, and for what? Another bust season?

 

[Chrispy]

There's definitely 2 sides to this story so I won't take this at face value. I wonder if Eichel is using this as a reason to leave vs. "This team sucks, I want out"

If true, this is a difficult one to parse out from outside.

If the team doctor is saying "I don't think spinal surgery is necessary, and you definitely don't want to do unnecessary spinal surgery" then you're getting into conflicting medical opinions about what is in Eichel's best interest medically.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I read it as they wanted him to wait until the off-season to get surgery.

 

[Wolfpuck]

Oh man the Sabres have f***ed this up. That whole organization is radioactive.

 

[LakeLivin]

I wonder if there is some weird deal that Seattle could piece together through the expansion draft for Eichel. Like Buffalo gives them a shopping list from the league and if they can pull together 3-4 good players and some picks they could make a match.

Seattle starting their franchise with one of the best young #1Cs in the league would be interesting. Anything to keep him from the Rangers.

That would be very cool but I've got to believe that Buffalo is going to want at least 1 blue chip player coming back in an Eichel deal. While I'm sure Seattle could pool a lot of good pieces, you don't see many "dollar in change" offers that bring back a "dollar bill" player in the NHL.

 

[cptjeff]

That would be very cool but I've got to believe that Buffalo is going to want at least 1 blue chip player coming back in an Eichel deal. While I'm sure Seattle could pool a lot of good pieces, you don't see many "dollar in change" offers that bring back a "dollar bill" player in the NHL.

But, depending on the protection lists, it may be possible. Also, remember that Vegas effectively threw some of its picks away (like that random guy they drafted from the Everblades from us) because they had 30 picks and only 23 roster spots. By making those extra picks, Seattle would have the surplus NHL quality guys to swing something like that. Buffalo may not get the blue chipper, but given the scenario and how stingy the league is with trading those players regardless they might have a difficult time anyway. But they could bring in 5 guys known for being strong veteran leaders while still being decent hockey players to give the organization a big culture transplant, akin to what we did here bringing in Williams and then empowering Brindy.

That's not how hockey thinking tends to work, everyone is focused on balancing skill levels and "winning" trades, especially when their job is on the line if it doesn't work out, but that's the way you change a culture, and as we have discovered, culture is the single most important thing an organization has to get right.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Another aspect of this is that if Eichel is traded before his NMC is in place, the team acquiring him doesn't have to (and likely won't) honor it. It's what happened to Subban and I think Bogosian and a few others. So once he's traded, he no longer has that protection in his deal.

EDIT: Strike that. Looks like it was changed in the MOU to extend the current CBA (see following posts).

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Another aspect of this is that if Eichel is traded before his NMC is in place, the team acquiring him doesn't have to (and likely won't) honor it. It's what happened to Subban and I think Bogosian and a few others. So once he's traded, he no longer has that protection in his deal.

I thought in the new CBA, a player’s ntc / nmc carries with them. Even if they waived a NTC / NMC for that trade they would still have it for following seasons (if it was a part of the contract)

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I thought in the new CBA, a player’s ntc / nmc carries with them. Even if they waived a NTC / NMC for that trade they would still have it for following seasons (if it was a part of the contract)

Hmmm, I'll have to look that up. I thought there is a distinction between "waiving" a clause in place (which stays in place after a trade), and a clause that is yet to become effective.

I haven't looked at the details of the new CBA though so I could be wrong on that.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Ok, so the MOU to the CBA only talks about adjusting for schedule changes due to the pandemic.

Contracts containing No Trade/No Move Clauses in which the terms of such clause are altered on, or come into effect after July 1, 2020, will be deemed amended such that such alteration or effectiveness will occur on the corresponding number of days after the date the parties agree to be the opening of Free Agency.

The existing CBA from the NHLPA website says this.

If the Player is Traded or claimed on Waivers prior to the no-Trade or no-move clause taking effect, the clause does not bind the acquiring Club. An acquiring Club may agree to continue to be bound by the no-Trade or no-move clause, which agreement shall be evidenced in writing to the Player, Central Registry and the NHLPA, in accordance with Exhibit 3 hereof.

So unless I'm missing something (which I could be as this was a quick check), it looks like it's still the case that the club acquiring a player before a clause is in effect doesn't have to honor it.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Hmmm, I'll have to look that up. I thought there is a distinction between "waiving" a clause in place (which stays in place after a trade), and a clause that is yet to become effective.

I haven't looked at the details of the new CBA though so I could be wrong on that.

No-trade/no-move clauses: All no-trade and no-move clauses will travel with the player in a trade, even if the player is traded before the clause kicks in.
Example: The Montreal Canadiens traded defenceman P.K. Subban days before his no-move clause kicked in. The Nashville Predators, the team that acquired Subban, subsequently voided Subban’s no-move clause, then making him susceptible later to a trade to New Jersey.
Details emerge on expected new NHL agreement - TSN.ca

 

[LakeLivin]

But, depending on the protection lists, it may be possible. Also, remember that Vegas effectively threw some of its picks away (like that random guy they drafted from the Everblades from us) because they had 30 picks and only 23 roster spots. By making those extra picks, Seattle would have the surplus NHL quality guys to swing something like that. Buffalo may not get the blue chipper, but given the scenario and how stingy the league is with trading those players regardless they might have a difficult time anyway. But they could bring in 5 guys known for being strong veteran leaders while still being decent hockey players to give the organization a big culture transplant, akin to what we did here bringing in Williams and then empowering Brindy.

That's not how hockey thinking tends to work, everyone is focused on balancing skill levels and "winning" trades, especially when their job is on the line if it doesn't work out, but that's the way you change a culture, and as we have discovered, culture is the single most important thing an organization has to get right.

I guess that's possible. I think it's safe to say that Buffalo won't get a player of Eichel's caliber in a trade, rather the best single piece Buffalo could expect coming back would be a tier below Eichel. I'm thinking they'd take that plus a couple of good veteran guys to make up the difference rather than a ton of good veteran guys. And I don't see Seattle ending up with a guy a tier below Eichel (unless it's a UFA signing, in which case they'd look like dicks if they immediately turned over someone who willingly picked the Krak over the rest of the league). Whereas I'm guessing there'd be multiple teams that would offer up the first package for Eichel.

Either way, it's going to be interesting viewing.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

No-trade/no-move clauses: All no-trade and no-move clauses will travel with the player in a trade, even if the player is traded before the clause kicks in.
Example: The Montreal Canadiens traded defenceman P.K. Subban days before his no-move clause kicked in. The Nashville Predators, the team that acquired Subban, subsequently voided Subban’s no-move clause, then making him susceptible later to a trade to New Jersey.
Details emerge on expected new NHL agreement - TSN.ca

Ah, got it. so you mean a CBA that's not in effect today but will go in effect? If so, that makes sense.

EDIT: although the Seravalli article mentions the MOU, and I don't see that clause you quoted above in the MOU, unless I'm missing it.

Collective Bargaining Agreement

EDIT 2: I found it.

58.NMCs/NTCsCBA §11.8 amended to provide that No-Trade and No-Move clauses shall always travel with the Player in the event of an Assignment (by Trade or Waivers) of the SPC.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Ah, got it. so you mean a CBA that's not in effect today but will go in effect? If so, that makes sense.

EDIT: although the Seravalli article mentions the MOU, and I don't see that clause you quoted above in the MOU, unless I'm missing it.

Collective Bargaining Agreement

The CBA that brought us back in 2020 isn’t official yet? Idk that answer. I assumed it was. But we know how that goes

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The CBA that brought us back in 2020 isn’t official yet? Idk that answer. I assumed it was. But we know how that goes

see my update. The old CBA is extended with the changes in the MOU and I found that clause in the MOU. Missed it the first time.

Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

see my update. The old CBA is extended with the changes in the MOU and I found that clause in the MOU. Missed it the first time.

Hey im not crazy. First time for everything. It’ll be short lived.

 

[cptjeff]

I guess that's possible. I think it's safe to say that Buffalo won't get a player of Eichel's caliber in a trade, rather the best single piece Buffalo could expect coming back would be a tier below Eichel. I'm thinking they'd take that plus a couple of good veteran guys to make up the difference rather than a ton of good veteran guys. And I don't see Seattle ending up with a guy a tier below Eichel (unless it's a UFA signing, in which case they'd look like dicks if they immediately turned over someone who willingly picked the Krak over the rest of the league). Whereas I'm guessing there'd be multiple teams that would offer up the first package for Eichel.

Either way, it's going to be interesting viewing.

Buffalo won't get anyone near Eichel caliber for Eichel no matter how they do this, that's the thing. If you're going to trade a dollar player, you might as well get a 75 cent guy, 2 50 cent guys, and a quarter, and maybe a lotto ticket or two. For a team that does happen to need players at every level of the lineup and will be getting a new young star who very well could be Eichel caliber at the top of the draft this year, that may not be such a bad move. Yeah, you could shake every bush in the league for a 90 cent guy and two dimes, but that'll take a year and you'll have a disgruntled captain poisoning the locker room. Do you really want to go that route?

 

[Lempo]

Is there something recent on twitter about this?

EDIT: NVM, I see it now.

If Eichel really wants out of Buffalo, then the Sabres should move him this year as next July 1st (2022), his NMC kicks in and he has a $7.5M bonus payment as well (no bonus payment this year). If he wants to go to the Rangers, then I'd make them pay up, or send him elsewhere if the return is better. Martin St. Louis had a NMC, so could force his way to NYR, Eichel has no such protection.

Jack Eichel - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Eichel's signing bonuses are kind of extreme example of the lockout protection the top players could insist on their contracts for 2020-21 and 2022-23, either of which was expected to be a lockout season as the CBA was to expire in 2022 and could be terminated early in 2020.

It's kind of funny that the lockout season failed to realize and the CBA got extended relatively painlessly, but these salary implications from the lockout protections in the players' SPCs will be messing up things even in the next season.

 

[Lempo]

Buffalo won't get anyone near Eichel caliber for Eichel no matter how they do this, that's the thing. If you're going to trade a dollar player, you might as well get a 75 cent guy, 2 50 cent guys, and a quarter, and maybe a lotto ticket or two. For a team that does happen to need players at every level of the lineup and will be getting a new young star who very well could be Eichel caliber at the top of the draft this year, that may not be such a bad move. Yeah, you could shake every bush in the league for a 90 cent guy and two dimes, but that'll take a year and you'll have a disgruntled captain poisoning the locker room. Do you really want to go that route?

What does Columbus have to give Buffalo on top of Laine?

 

[bleedgreen]

I don’t know that I’d trade for Eichel. He’s had his moments for sure but he’s never been the guy I thought he was going to be. I’m sure he’ll be better elsewhere but he does come off as a bit of a brat.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Eichel is the worst-handled superstar since Boston Bruin Joe Thornton.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I don’t know that I’d trade for Eichel. He’s had his moments for sure but he’s never been the guy I thought he was going to be. I’m sure he’ll be better elsewhere but he does come off as a bit of a brat.

That will be a decision for LA or Rangers to make as they have the best assets to add him. I might be inclined to trade for him knowing his effort level would be pretty high for a winner. We have 0 chance / need to add him. Although, LA getting him would be a little funny seeing where they are right now.

 

[cptjeff]

I don’t know that I’d trade for Eichel. He’s had his moments for sure but he’s never been the guy I thought he was going to be. I’m sure he’ll be better elsewhere but he does come off as a bit of a brat.

I suspect any team that can provide the right environment will be happy to have him. Remember, he's 24, still very young, and he's been playing in an utter shitshow of an organization since he was 18. I think surrounded by competent strong leaders and a competitive team, he'd be happy to settle in and be mentored by people he actually respects. The trouble is that he doesn't respect anybody associated with Buffalo, and rightfully so. Hockey culture is way, way too insistent on telling players that they just need to shut up and obey without question. Eichel questions things, because that's what smart people who have any self worth do. People might take that as being bratty, I take it as standing up for yourself in a situation where nobody else has your interests in mind at all.

As for his play not being what people expected, see above.

I think we all have to keep in mind that even the grizzled veterans of the NHL are still young adults who are more than capable of growing and changing. We've seen Jordan Staal, 32, adopt a new explosiveness focused offseason routine this year, Nino, 28, completely change his offensive game with offseason coaching, and just about everybody who's ever entered this league as a hotshot 18 year old has had a lot of personal growth. That said, there are guys like Taylor Hall who get stuck in toxic high school jock mode and don't seem to want to change, but Eichel does not strike me as that type of guy.

 

[cptjeff]

Eichel is the worst-handled superstar since Boston Bruin Joe Thornton.

But according to the main board, Joe Thornton probably won't make the hall of fame.

(okay, that was one poster and he got trashed, but still)

 

[bleedgreen]

I suspect any team that can provide the right environment will be happy to have him. Remember, he's 24, still very young, and he's been playing in an utter shitshow of an organization since he was 18. I think surrounded by competent strong leaders and a competitive team, he'd be happy to settle in and be mentored by people he actually respects. The trouble is that he doesn't respect anybody associated with Buffalo, and rightfully so. Hockey culture is way, way too insistent on telling players that they just need to shut up and obey without question. Eichel questions things, because that's what smart people who have any self worth do. People might take that as being bratty, I take it as standing up for yourself in a situation where nobody else has your interests in mind at all.

As for his play not being what people expected, see above.

I think we all have to keep in mind that even the grizzled veterans of the NHL are still young adults who are more than capable of growing and changing. We've seen Jordan Staal, 32, adopt a new explosiveness focused offseason routine this year, Nino, 28, completely change his offensive game with offseason coaching, and just about everybody who's ever entered this league as a hotshot 18 year old has had a lot of personal growth. That said, there are guys like Taylor Hall who get stuck in toxic high school jock mode and don't seem to want to change, but Eichel does not strike me as that type of guy.

Hasn’t he already gotten a coach or two fired though? Maybe that was media perception but it seemed like whatever Jack wanted happened, at least for a little bit.

If 97 could ride it out in Edm...

As far as surgery goes the team has a lot of experts looking at these guys and neck surgery is a risky proposition. Then pushing him not to do it isn’t necessarily a bad thing. He might just be impatient there.

I agree there’s time for him to grow up a bit still but he’s going to be the big dog wherever he goes with that contract. He’s going to be expected to lead a team to success immediately. You’d assume he’d have better support, but we don’t know that he can really lead yet.