Around The League 2021-22 season - part IV

[Buck Dancer]

Stylistically yea maybe, but when he's on the ice his team gets consistently out shot, out chanced, out scored, etc. I just don't think he's very good at all. Pure "grit" move overpay.

The regular season and the playoffs are two different beasts.

Gritty guys like Manson, Chariot, Gudas, etc are exactly what contenders are looking for. You see way more players like that getting moved at the deadline than you see offensive minded dmen.

 

[Triumph]

The regular season and the playoffs are two different beasts.

Gritty guys like Manson, Chariot, Gudas, etc are exactly what contenders are looking for. You see way more players like that getting moved at the deadline than you see offensive minded dmen.

Great. Chiarot was outscored in last year's playoffs, he was -8 5v5. He was unlucky but not by a lot. You want gritty guys but you want gritty guys who can play (and Gudas is one of these, Chiarot is not)

 

[Blackjack]

Stylistically yea maybe, but when he's on the ice his team gets consistently out shot, out chanced, out scored, etc. I just don't think he's very good at all. Pure "grit" move overpay.

I wish it weren't true, but when the refs change how they call the game, bigger, slower, dirtier defensemen become more valuable. I know Manson is not that good in the regular season, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's more effective than Severson would be in the playoffs.

 

[Guttersniped]

Stylistically yea maybe, but when he's on the ice his team gets consistently out shot, out chanced, out scored, etc. I just don't think he's very good at all. Pure "grit" move overpay.

It depends on who you pair him with and how he doesn’t in their system. He been meh this year but it’s not like he’s been awful for years. (Last year was bit ugly but that was a disaster for the Ducks in general.)

He’s always been defensive defenseman guy who can compliment different style defensemen well, which is something that the Avs can use.

Defensive metrics are trickier to translate from team to team. Eakins might not have been the best coach for him too, his system isn’t a crease clearing type, boxing out style. (He’s brought the swarm defense back.)

 

[Saugus]

Edit: Out of curiosity I looked up the lineups and it was good for a laugh:

Blandisi-Henrique-Palmieri
Ruutu-Zajac-Kennedy
Boucher-Kalinin-Sislo
Farnham-Gionta-Smith-Pelly

Greene-Larsson
Moore-Schlemko
Helgeson-Warsofsky

Kinkaid

Also forgot I ever saw Lecavalier during his brief stint in LA.

Ah, the infamous toilet paper lineup. Boy that team was bad.

 

[Guttersniped]

The regular season and the playoffs are two different beasts.

Gritty guys like Manson, Chariot, Gudas, etc are exactly what contenders are looking for. You see way more players like that getting moved at the deadline than you see offensive minded dmen.

Manson is a better player, Chariot has had like 2-3 ok seasons defensively while being a offensive void. (And this year he’s been awful.) He’s going to ride an undeserved rep from last year’s playoffs.

 

[njdevils1982]

Edit: Out of curiosity I looked up the lineups and it was good for a laugh:

Blandisi-Henrique-Palmieri
Ruutu-Zajac-Kennedy
Boucher-Kalinin-Sislo
Farnham-Gionta-Smith-Pelly

Greene-Larsson
Moore-Schlemko
Helgeson-Warsofsky

Kinkaid

Also forgot I ever saw Lecavalier during his brief stint in LA.

 

[Azathoth]

Ah, the infamous toilet paper lineup. Boy that team was bad.

Catching up on this thread but what in the actual f*** was that lineup?! Good lord.

 

[RangerDoggo]

Catching up on this thread but what in the actual f*** was that lineup?! Good lord.

I remember when Reid Boucher was supposed to be the bright spot in the system. To say he didn't pan out is an understatement.

 

[Buck Dancer]

Manson is a better player, Chariot has had like 2-3 ok seasons defensively while being a offensive void. (And this year he’s been awful.) He’s going to ride an undeserved rep from last year’s playoffs.

Who ever said that Manson wasn't better?

What I said is that gritty defensive dmen like Manson and Chariot are attractive assets come trade deadline and GM's are willing to spend big on players like that because they know that they'll have value when the second season will get underway.

Again, why are we always talking about what a player is doing right this second? The Habs were hot garbage under Ducharme this entire year and guys like Jeff Petry, who had Norris votes last year for crying out loud, looked liked an AHL dman this year.

Context is everything when looking at the big picture and yes, Chariot probably blows this year... just like any other player playing on the worst team in the league. The coaching change has reversed things for the Habs and guys that were labeled as being good/great are starting to play to the level everyone was expecting of them.

We had a shit record under MacLean but when Lemaire took over, that same roster started winning. The players didn't change and I'm sure some were labeling our players as hot garbage under MacLean as well.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

Edit: Out of curiosity I looked up the lineups and it was good for a laugh:

Blandisi-Henrique-Palmieri
Ruutu-Zajac-Kennedy
Boucher-Kalinin-Sislo
Farnham-Gionta-Smith-Pelly

Greene-Larsson
Moore-Schlemko
Helgeson-Warsofsky

Kinkaid

Also forgot I ever saw Lecavalier during his brief stint in LA.

that is just absolutely horrid, my word

 

[Bleedred]

Ah, the infamous toilet paper lineup. Boy that team was bad.

Catching up on this thread but what in the actual f*** was that lineup?! Good lord.

#35 (the most recent to wear #35 for us) really was an elite goalie.

 

[Guttersniped]

Who ever said that Manson wasn't better?

What I said is that gritty defensive dmen like Manson and Chariot are attractive assets come trade deadline and GM's are willing to spend big on players like that because they know that they'll have value when the second season will get underway.

Again, why are we always talking about what a player is doing right this second? The Habs were hot garbage under Ducharme this entire year and guys like Jeff Petry, who had Norris votes last year for crying out loud, looked liked an AHL dman this year.

Context is everything when looking at the big picture and yes, Chariot probably blows this year... just like any other player playing on the worst team in the league. The coaching change has reversed things for the Habs and guys that were labeled as being good/great are starting to play to the level everyone was expecting of them.

We had a shit record under MacLean but when Lemaire took over, that same roster started winning. The players didn't change and I'm sure some were labeling our players as hot garbage under MacLean as well.

I was in Manson defense mode, which I guess didn’t make that much sense in response to you since you aren’t crapping on Manson so sorry for any confusion there.

I don’t see Manson as just a “type”, he’s had very excellent results (with the analytics to back it up and everything!) when paired with PMD, he’s paired really well with Vats, Lindholm, etc in the past. And he’s been ok this season.

I feel like this could work out surprisingly well for the Avs who need exactly this kind of defenseman and they didn’t give that much up for him.

If I was Avs fan I would definitely prefer Manson over Chariot because he’s been generally much better than him in the past and has been much better than him this year. (You never know, maybe Chariot kills on his new team & Manson immediately gets injured.)

Each TDL move has to be judged on it’s own, it doesn’t matter if that brand of player seems better for the playoffs. Chariot is fine as depth pick-up but I wouldn’t overpay for him, particularly since there’s a lot of defense potentially available. I can’t judge a deal until it happens though.

 

[My3Sons]

Who ever said that Manson wasn't better?

What I said is that gritty defensive dmen like Manson and Chariot are attractive assets come trade deadline and GM's are willing to spend big on players like that because they know that they'll have value when the second season will get underway.

Again, why are we always talking about what a player is doing right this second? The Habs were hot garbage under Ducharme this entire year and guys like Jeff Petry, who had Norris votes last year for crying out loud, looked liked an AHL dman this year.

Context is everything when looking at the big picture and yes, Chariot probably blows this year... just like any other player playing on the worst team in the league. The coaching change has reversed things for the Habs and guys that were labeled as being good/great are starting to play to the level everyone was expecting of them.

We had a shit record under MacLean but when Lemaire took over, that same roster started winning. The players didn't change and I'm sure some were labeling our players as hot garbage under MacLean as well.

which is always odd to me. How does a coach go from having some success with a team to completely failing to the point the players look that bad? If you are MacLean and never had any success I get it but Ducharme managed to get the Habs to the finals. How do you regress so much that competent NHL players look like minor leaguers?

 

[Buck Dancer]

I was in Manson defense mode, which I guess didn’t make that much sense in response to you since you aren’t crapping on Manson so sorry for any confusion there.

I don’t see Manson as just a “type”, he’s had very excellent results (with the analytics to back it up and everything!) when paired with PMD, he’s paired really well with Vats, Lindholm, etc in the past. And he’s been ok this season.

I feel like this could work out surprisingly well for the Avs who need exactly this kind of defenseman and they didn’t give that much up for him.

If I was Avs fan I would definitely prefer Manson over Chariot because he’s been generally much better than him in the past and has been much better than him this year. (You never know, maybe Chariot kills on his new team & Manson immediately gets injured.)

Each TDL move has to be judged on it’s own, it doesn’t matter if that brand of player seems better for the playoffs. Chariot is fine as depth pick-up but I wouldn’t overpay for him, particularly since there’s a lot of defense potentially available. I can’t judge a deal until it happens though.

I'm definitely on board with the Josh Manson love and like I said in another thread, I would do everything in our power to land him during free agency and move on from Damon Severson. The contract Manson will request will be half of what Severson will get and we would actually add some muscle and a defensive presence on our right side. We could pair him with Ty Smith next year and L. Hughes/Shak the following years because like you said, he's great when playing with an offensive partner.

 

[Buck Dancer]

which is always odd to me. How does a coach go from having some success with a team to completely failing to the point the players look that bad? If you are MacLean and never had any success I get it but Ducharme managed to get the Habs to the finals. How do you regress so much that competent NHL players look like minor leaguers?

The message from a rookie coach, who was an assistant before getting promoted to HC, is never a good idea. More often than not, the assistant is the "good cop" on the coaching staff and when he get's to be the "bad cop", it's hard for a locker room to seperate both things... especially when things go south fast.

 

[Eggtimer]

That toilet paper lineup was depressing. It was hard times being a Devils fan. Not too much to look forward to but I guess at that time , a person tries to convince themselves it wasn't as bad as it really was. Maybe not specifically at that exact point in time , but I remember thinking we had a very good D prospect pool with Urbom , Gelinas , Merrill , etc. We had zero forward prospects too and had a few veterans that were cooked and in the twilight of their careers . Please for the love of God I dont want to get into this again and have a GM argument. All i am trying to say is that our current pool of players in the organization is 100000 times better than it was .

 

[Camille the Eel]

Matthew’s cross check on Dahlin cost him 116 thousand dollars. That’s a chunk of change.

 

[Bleedred]

The Avs really need to go out and get Giroux. Just f***in go for it now.

They've gotta be cup favorites by a whole lot if they added him. He's still really good and I'm glad he's (hopefully) leaving the division soon enough. Hopefully another team in the division doesn't sign him, although it could be good for other teams in the division later in his deal if he signs for significant term and falls off in a few years.

I think as long as Kuemper performs well in the playoffs, I really gotta think they'll be in the finals, if not win the cup.

I'd like to see a Florida-Colorado cup final, but that's probably too much to ask for.

I'm tired of the same old shit and really want something new.

 

[Bleedred]

ah so it was Hulk.

My bad.

BTW, do the pages auto-refresh?

I don't recall refreshing this page yet I see your response. Weird.

I'm not sure auto-refresh.

Sometimes when I'm in other threads I'll see posts that were an hour(s) ago, but then the newer posts start coming up on the same page. That was with the old format. I haven't really noticed it since the revamp the other day.

 

[Eggtimer]

The Avs really need to go out and get Giroux. Just f***in go for it now.

They've gotta be cup favorites by a whole lot if they added him. He's still really good and I'm glad he's (hopefully) leaving the division soon enough. Hopefully another team in the division doesn't sign him, although it could be good for other teams in the division later in his deal if he signs for significant term and falls off in a few years.

I think as long as Kuemper performs well in the playoffs, I really gotta think they'll be in the finals, if not win the cup.

I'd like to see a Florida-Colorado cup final, but that's probably too much to ask for.

I'm tired of the same old shit and really want something new.

Avs lineup is not going to get any better than it is now unless a prospect breaks out. Now is the time to go for it. They will lose one or more of Kadri Nuke Burokovsky Keumper , so may as well go big while you have the best roster you are likely going to ever have for the next few years.
If we were in that position , I would want Fitz to go all in. Its about winning the Cup , not winning " Best regular season team for the longest period of time" . You have to pay to play. No , I wouldnt mortgage the entire future on a rental but I would part with more assets than normal if your cup window is open .

 

[Hisch13r]

The Avs really need to go out and get Giroux. Just f***in go for it now.

They've gotta be cup favorites by a whole lot if they added him. He's still really good and I'm glad he's (hopefully) leaving the division soon enough. Hopefully another team in the division doesn't sign him, although it could be good for other teams in the division later in his deal if he signs for significant term and falls off in a few years.

I think as long as Kuemper performs well in the playoffs, I really gotta think they'll be in the finals, if not win the cup.

I'd like to see a Florida-Colorado cup final, but that's probably too much to ask for.

I'm tired of the same old shit and really want something new.

I think they’re going to get him. I wouldn’t even be surprised if it’s already a done deal and we’re just waiting until Friday morning after Giroux’s played his 1000th game

 

[glenwo2]

I remember when Reid Boucher was supposed to be the bright spot in the system. To say he didn't pan out is an understatement.

And then he turned out to be a Piece of s--t, to boot.

 

[Eggtimer]

I think they’re going to get him. I wouldn’t even be surprised if it’s already a done deal and we’re just waiting until Friday morning after Giroux’s played his 1000th game

Some rumblings that Giroux prefers the Panthers. It will be interesting to see what happens. But 100% for sure it will be after his 1000th game thingy

 

[Bleedred]

Avs lineup is not going to get any better than it is now unless a prospect breaks out. Now is the time to go for it. They will lose one or more of Kadri Nuke Burokovsky Keumper , so may as well go big while you have the best roster you are likely going to ever have for the next few years.

Yup.

Take some chances, pull a trigger. Go all-out.

Honestly, if it doesn't work and they don't win the cup, I wouldn't blame Sakic for loading up at the deadline.

I honestly can't view the standings right now, cause it freezes my shit (thank god this site no longer does) and it's also why I may sometimes need a fact check on stats and exact numbers, as hockey reference, NHL.com, and a few other sites just freeze my shit up. And my phone is charging for the first time in like almost a day.

So I can't really see who they're pacing to play right now, other than it will more than likely be the second wild card.

It's gonna be so annoying if they draw Vegas in the first round and are somehow upset by them again. Only for Vegas to come out the next round and got bopped badly by whoever they play after.

It was so annoying seeing Vegas beat Colorado last year in the 2nd round (and I don't even root for Colorado and haven't since Claude Lemieux played there in between stints with us) and then losing in the WCF to Montreal. And I know the Montreal from the playoffs wasn't the same team they've been icing this year, but that's still ugh. I don't know how Vegas didn't pull that one out.

I also really think Colorado probably should have beaten Dallas in 2020 in the second round, but they were reduced to nothing but Michael Hutchinson in goal by the time that series was just about over.

Looking back on it, I think the Avs could have beaten the Sharks in the second round in 2019 also. That was the only round Martin Jones played well in that playoff year. Before turning back into the pumpkin he was that almost cost them the Vegas series in round one in the WCF against the Blues.