GDT: Around the League 2019-20 v24

[Three On Zero]

Not to take away from the series win against St Louis but Binnington seemed to get rattled fast. That’s the Blues problem though and you take it and run no matter who you are

Doubt creeped into my mind with Vegas after they lost game 2. I thought they would buckle down and squeak out that win (but have it a close game). I like DeBoer but I think he’s a downgrade on Gallant. He out coached himself against Penguins that one year too (though the Penguins were dominant and made the Sharks look silly too IMO)

Totally agree on Tampa. After they exorcised their demons with Columbus I felt it was theirs to lose. Especially now with these other series getting dragged out with whatever teams winning being depleted and not looking as sharp as they could heading into the conference finals. Tampa should demolish Isles or Philly and I see them winning in 6 at the most against whatever team comes out of the West. Too many question marks for every team left.

The fact that Stamkos could still make an appearance is also just peachy. Although I don't know if they would want to mess up the chemistry

 

[AddyTheWrath]

You should be crying more about the Avs, they went from one of the worst seasons in modern history to being contenders.

Also, no guarantees, they are riding high PDO so next year could be back as a bubble team at best.

The Avs remind me a lot of us, which is why I like them.

Drafted first overall a couple of times, started trending upwards and then shot back down with one of the worst regular seasons in modern NHL history, and are finally breaking through again with some depth in fwd position and a stud on defense. Led by one of the best players in the league.

Hopefully we follow a similar trajectory.

 

[Cloned]

You're not giving any examples of this happening regularly in modern times.

You also said that skill doesn't win out anymore and stars don't win when I showed you that's not true with the Hawks, Pens and Caps in 4 of the last 5 years. If anything, skill is being more emphasized the last 5 years or so.

Like I said, I'm not just focusing on the eventual Cup winner. I want the better teams to advance through each round.

For a NBA example:

Is one of the best teams in the NBA going to win the Championship this year? Yes.

Are they all still playing in the 2nd round right now? Also yes.

Did any undeserving teams make it past the 1st round? No.

If it was the NHL, the answers to those questions might be yes, no and yes. That's where I don't like it. It should be best-on-best, all the time.

 

[CupofOil]

I mean, last year all four division leaders were knocked out in the first round.

Upsets have been happening in the early rounds since the beginning of time.
Ultimately though, those teams were knocked out in the next round and two elite teams made it to the Cup finals. The cream rose to the top eventually.

Upsets are actually what makes hockey exciting. It's too bad that we don't see Cinderella runs anymore. I don't consider Vegas a Cinderella run, they were elite that year somehow. This is part of the reason why early rounds are usually the most exciting rounds, because of the randomness and unpredictability.

 

[Oilhawks]

The Avs remind me a lot of us, which is why I like them.

Drafted first overall a couple of times, started trending upwards and then shot back down with one of the worst regular seasons in modern NHL history, and are finally breaking through again with some depth in fwd position and a stud on defense. Led by one of the best players in the league.

Hopefully we follow a similar trajectory.

The only reason I don’t like them as much this year is the media tire pumping. Mac is great, yes! But I don’t like the McDavid comparisons, especially when he only has one 100 pt season (prorated this year) to his name and he’s older. Honestly media tire pumping and obnoxious fan bases are the reason I dislike most teams that I dislike.

I think the Oilers will, provided that one of Bouchard or Broberg (preferably both) break out, they get a 3C and a winger for Connor. Not that unlikely despite what the naysayers say IMO

 

[CupofOil]

Like I said, I'm not just focusing on the eventual Cup winner. I want the better teams to advance through each round.

For a NBA example:

Is one of the best teams in the NBA going to win the Championship this year? Yes.

Are they all still playing in the 2nd round right now? Also yes.

Did any undeserving teams make it past the 1st round? No.

If it was the NHL, the answers to those questions might be yes, no and yes. That's where I don't like it. It should be best-on-best, all the time.

The NBA playoffs suck generally, especially in the 1st and 2nd rounds, because the same teams win every year. To each their own but I live for drama and unpredictable events in the playoffs. Those are the most memorable moments in sports, the big upsets. It's a big part of the reason why March Madness is my favourite sporting event.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[Oilhawks]

The fact that Stamkos could still make an appearance is also just peachy. Although I don't know if they would want to mess up the chemistry

I honestly forgot about him (like Tarasenko for the Blues), but I could see them holding him out or seeing what he can do in the bottom 6 with limited minutes. If I were Cooper I’d wait til the 2nd game of the series provided they take the 1st game just to be sure

 

[CycloneSweep]

I mean, last year all four division leaders were knocked out in the first round.

My question is.. the last 3 months or the season, who were the best teams and were they the ones taking out the technically higher rates teams

 

[Cloned]

The NBA playoffs suck generally, especially in the 1st and 2nd rounds, because the same teams win every year. To each their own but I live for drama and unpredictable events in the playoffs. Those are the most memorable moments in sports, the big upsets. It's a big part of the reason why March Madness is my favourite sporting event.

Drama is fine, even March Madness is fine because those upsets are usually actually due to the underdog outplaying the supposed better team. If the Mavericks came in and upset the Clippers because they outplayed them in 7 games, that's perfectly fine.

Not like the NHL where the upsets can be caused to a large degree by luck and randomness.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

The only reason I don’t like them as much this year is the media tire pumping. Mac is great, yes! But I don’t like the McDavid comparisons, especially when he only has one 100 pt season (prorated this year) to his name and he’s older. Honestly media tire pumping and obnoxious fan bases are the reason I dislike most teams.

I think the Oilers will, provided that one of Bouchard or Broberg (preferably both) break out, they get a 3C and a winger for Connor. Not that unlikely despite what the naysayers say IMO

The MacK McDavid comparisons have been a bit annoying but most people know that McDavid is the best player in the league. This argument happens every year (e.g. Kucherov in 2019), but Connor always sets the standard.

I mean, look at the comments on this youtube video (terrible take by O Dog but then again what else is knew?).



I'd be able to get behind the Stars if they still had Hemsky or Spezza, but I can't bring myself to cheer for Perry. They also have a tendency to start playing dirty every time they're out of a game.

 

[CupofOil]

Drama is fine, even March Madness is fine because those upsets are usually actually due to the underdog outplaying the supposed better team. If the Mavericks came in and upset the Clippers because they outplayed them in 7 games, that's perfectly fine.

Not like the NHL where the upsets can be caused to a large degree by luck and randomness.

So you didn't enjoy the Oilers beating Dallas in '97 and Colorado in '98? What about the Oilers beating the Wings in '06? Those teams were vastly outplayed in those rounds but won because of superior goaltending and luck quite frankly.

Even in GreatKeith's example of last year. Do you think Columbus was lucky to beat Tampa? Hell no, they outplayed them.

Also, March Madness is full of randomness, that's why it earned the "Madness" monikerm

 

[AddyTheWrath]

The NBA playoffs suck generally, especially in the 1st and 2nd rounds, because the same teams win every year. To each their own but I live for drama and unpredictable events in the playoffs. Those are the most memorable moments in sports, the big upsets. It's a big part of the reason why March Madness is my favourite sporting event.

The NBA is a league where 90% of the time the better team wins.

The NHL is a league where ~70% of the time the better team wins.

Ultimately, there are some close series in the first round in the NBA as well (Nuggets-Jazz was an amazing series this year, same with Houston-OKC), but it's harder for lower-seeded teams to pull off upsets. It does still happen though and there is some great basketball to watch if you look hard enough.

 

[CycloneSweep]

So you didn't enjoy the Oilers beating Dallas in '97 and Colorado in '98? What about the Oilers beating the Wings in '06? Those teams were vastly outplayed in those rounds but won because of superior goaltending and luck quite frankly.

Even in GreatKeith's example of last year. Do you think Columbus was lucky to beat Tampa? Hell no, they outplayed them.

Most upsets aren't luck based either. Can't get lucky to beat a team 4 games out of 7. Usually the real steals or upsets are due to goalies playing all world.

 

[CupofOil]

The NBA is a league where 90% of the time the better team wins.

The NHL is a league where ~70% of the time the better team wins.

Ultimately, there are some close series in the first round in the NBA as well (Nuggets-Jazz was an amazing series this year, same with Houston-OKC), but it's harder for lower-seeded teams to pull off upsets. It does still happen though and there is some great basketball to watch if you look hard enough.

This bubble year is an exception. Big upsets are a rarity in a normal NBA playoff year especially in the LeBron/Warriors era.

I don't like playoffs being mapped out for me already. The upsets and surprises are what them extra special IMO

 

[Oilhawks]

Most upsets aren't luck based either. Can't get lucky to beat a team 4 games out of 7. Usually the real steals or upsets are due to goalies playing all world.

You could argue that that’s a lot of luck too

 

[CycloneSweep]

You could argue that that’s a lot of luck too

If you argue that's luck than hockey is an unskilled only luck game period

 

[Oilhawks]

This bubble year is an exception. Big upsets are a rarity in a normal NBA playoff year especially in the LeBron/Warriors era.

Yup, and more upsets in the NHL with the bubble this year too. I still think one of the remaining ‘expected’ teams (Avs or Lightning) wins this year. But if not, it’s unlikely that it won’t be an ‘expected’ team the year after and so on

 

[Cloned]

So you didn't enjoy the Oilers beating Dallas in '97 and Colorado in '98? What about the Oilers beating the Wings in '06? Those teams were vastly outplayed in those rounds but won because of superior goaltending and luck quite frankly.

Even in GreatKeith's example of last year. Do you think Columbus was lucky to beat Tampa? Hell no, they outplayed them.

Columbus beat Tampa fair and square, I didn't mind that at all, they outplayed Tampa. Like I said I don't mind it if the underdog actually outplays the other team. It's games like tonight (both of them) where the losing team dominated the winning team and still lose because of luck and random puck bounces/stick breaks that gets me.

Oilers weren't actually outplayed that badly in those series. If you look at some of the game film and even the shot totals in those series, those Oilers played it pretty tight with the top teams.

And tbh the "superior goaltending" back then actually was superior goaltending. Cujo was measurably better than Moog, for example, and it wasn't just because he was taller and had big equipment so he could just sit there and block shots all game long like it is today.

It's all a big tapestry for me; the randomness of the game, the reduction of the game to throwing pucks on net hoping for random deflections, the "evolution" of goaltending equipment, the structure of systems play reducing the impact of skill, etc. - I've mentioned all these things before.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

This bubble year is an exception. Big upsets are a rarity in a normal NBA playoff year especially in the LeBron/Warriors era.

I think we'll start seeing more upsets & competitive basketball in the NBA now that the Warriors dynasty has been broken up.

I mean you have

PG13 and Kawhi with the Clippers
Lebron and AD with the Lakers
Durant and Kyrie with the Nets
Splash bros in Golden State

Plus with Luka emerging as an elite talent in Dallas and Giannis potentially joining Butler in Miami, the competition is definitely starting to build. One thing I hate is that players can essentially build their own teams like Lebron, but it also does make for some crazy trades.

 

[Oilhawks]

If you argue that's luck than hockey is an unskilled only luck game period

Goalies that have no history of being elite getting hot is a lot to do with luck in the sense of timing. Pretty much any goalie that makes the NHL has the skill to steal a game, but it takes good fortune and timing for an average goalie to play out of his mind for a series.

When the luck dries up it can mean the end of the run unless the team is better than or outplays the new opposing team.

 

[Cloned]

The NBA is a league where 90% of the time the better team wins.

The NHL is a league where ~70% of the time the better team wins.

Ultimately, there are some close series in the first round in the NBA as well (Nuggets-Jazz was an amazing series this year, same with Houston-OKC), but it's harder for lower-seeded teams to pull off upsets. It does still happen though and there is some great basketball to watch if you look hard enough.

Exactly.

And some of the best second round matchups occur because there are so few upsets in the first round. I mean, would anyone really enjoy watching Celtics vs. Nets in the 2nd round right now?

 

[CupofOil]

Yup, and more upsets in the NHL with the bubble this year too. I still think one of the remaining ‘expected’ teams (Avs or Lightning) wins this year. But if not, it’s unlikely that it won’t be an ‘expected’ team the year after and so on

I still expect Colorado and Vegas to advance although, yes, "randomness" is even more prevalent in Game 7's so anything can happen.

Anyway, I think it would be boring if the favourite won just about every single playoff series every year.

 

[Cloned]

This bubble year is an exception. Big upsets are a rarity in a normal NBA playoff year especially in the LeBron/Warriors era.

I don't like playoffs being mapped out for me already. The upsets and surprises are what them extra special IMO

Some of the best 2nd round matchups in NBA history are because there are so few upsets in the first round. Best-on-best later on in the playoffs usually gives you a better viewing experience.

Would anyone really enjoy watching Celtics vs. Nets right now, for example? Or Miami vs. Orlando?

 

[geebster]

Star power matters more in the NBA. In the NHL, effort, being clutch, and goaltending (which isnt luck its skill and being clutch) overcome star forwards often. That's not randomness that's hard work. 4 games out of 7 isnt luck.