GDT: Around the League 2019-20 v24

[Cloned]

If you argue that's luck than hockey is an unskilled only luck game period

It's moreso that the "evolution" of goaltending (i.e. sitting in butterfly with huge equipment) and emphasis on systems play has reduced the overall ability of skater skill to impact a game, and increased the impact of randomness and luck.

 

[Oilhawks]

I still expect Colorado and Vegas to advance although, yes, "randomness" is even more prevalent in Game 7's so anything can happen.

Anyway, I think it would be boring if the favourite won just about every single playoff series every year.

Agreed, particularly the bolded. Like you said, as Oilers fans we benefited from that against Dallas and Detroit. And with the 06 run that luck against Detroit allowed them to piece together more confidence and play on equal footing later in the playoffs. Unfortunately we also saw the bad part of luck where they should have won in the finals without the bad luck of a series changing injury.

That said I feel those playoffs were more skill and capability than luck, and as we saw it went both ways.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

I still expect Colorado and Vegas to advance although, yes, "randomness" is even more prevalent in Game 7's so anything can happen.

Anyway, I think it would be boring if the favourite won just about every single playoff series every year.

There's a happy medium I think. Hockey as a sport can get a bit annoying when clearly inferior teams trap or luck their way through games to win while teams with actual talent get the short end of the stick. Ultimately, it's about what you like to see but I wish I could watch the best players play the most important games.

I understand your point about good teams generally winning the cup, but it's more than just that. It's about getting good & exciting matchups in the playoffs as well. I mean between Colorado, Vegas and Tampa Bay, obviously only one team can win the cup. But it would be nice if there was a higher chance of watching those teams play in the conference finals, not bow out earlier due to a clearly inferior team.

Of course, that could still happen this year, but let's take a look at last year. You had 6/8 first round upsets for crying out loud. I mean, thank god Calgary was one of them, but I want the hockey to get more and more talent heavy and exciting as the playoffs progress. The way they go right now I usually just end up tuning out after the first or second round.

 

[Oilhawks]

Star power matters more in the NBA. In the NHL, effort, being clutch, and goaltending (which isnt luck its skill and being clutch) overcome star forwards often. That's not randomness that's hard work. 4 games out of 7 isnt luck.

You keep telling yourself that. Canucks could win the cup this year and it doesn’t necessarily make them ‘clutch contenders’ next year. Just because Sportsnet is polishing their knobs for ratings and your fan base has a large fairweather / bandwagon contingent doesn’t mean that their success is ‘expected’. Also obligatory:

 

[CupofOil]

Some of the best 2nd round matchups in NBA history are because there are so few upsets in the first round. Best-on-best later on in the playoffs usually gives you a better viewing experience.

Would anyone really enjoy watching Celtics vs. Nets right now, for example? Or Miami vs. Orlando?

The difference is that lower seeded NHL teams have a better chance of competing against the top teams than the NBA especially in this era of exceptionally weak lower seeded east teams (without their stars this year).

What is one of the most memorable hockey (sports) moments of all time? The U.S. college kids beating the Soviet machine in the '80 Olympics.

I know we're Oiler fans but I bet you that more people remember the '06 Oilers run than the Ducks winning the '07 Cup, an elite team. Upsets are what create the most iconic moments IMO. The unpredictability, the shock, the "randomness" of the moment

BTW, I do agree that best on best is good too and we generally have been getting that in recent years later in the playoffs.

 

[Delicious Pancakes]

Like I said, I'm not just focusing on the eventual Cup winner. I want the better teams to advance through each round.

For a NBA example:

Is one of the best teams in the NBA going to win the Championship this year? Yes.

Are they all still playing in the 2nd round right now? Also yes.

Did any undeserving teams make it past the 1st round? No.

If it was the NHL, the answers to those questions might be yes, no and yes. That's where I don't like it. It should be best-on-best, all the time.

Disagree. The uncertainty is part of what makes the NHL playoffs the best. This year's playoffs are just a watered down version because of the situation but they're still entertaining. Having three teams battle back to force game 7's is exciting.

Chances are one of the game 7's is over by the 3rd period, one game a team holds on to win by a goal in the 3rd, and one game goes to overtime. I'm going to say Vegas rolls the Canucks, Colorado-Dallas is a one goal win in regulation (empty netter maybe), and the Islanders and Flyers go to OT again.

 

[Cloned]

There's a happy medium I think. Hockey as a sport can get a bit annoying when clearly inferior teams trap or luck their way through games to win while teams with actual talent get the short end of the stick. Ultimately, it's about what you like to see but I wish I could watch the best players play the most important games.

I understand your point about good teams generally winning the cup, but it's more than just that. It's about getting good & exciting matchups in the playoffs as well. I mean between Colorado, Vegas and Tampa Bay, obviously only one team can win the cup. But it would be nice if there was a higher chance of watching those teams play in the conference finals, not bow out earlier due to a clearly inferior team.

Of course, that could still happen this year, but let's take a look at last year. You had 6/8 first round upsets for crying out loud. I mean, thank god Calgary was one of them, but I want the hockey to get more and more talent heavy and exciting as the playoffs progress. The way they go right now I usually just end up tuning out after the first or second round.

Perfectly said and I fully agree.

 

[Oilhawks]

There's a happy medium I think. Hockey as a sport can get a bit annoying when clearly inferior teams trap or luck their way through games to win while teams with actual talent get the short end of the stick. Ultimately, it's about what you like to see but I wish I could watch the best players play the most important games.

I understand your point about good teams generally winning the cup, but it's more than just that. It's about getting good & exciting matchups in the playoffs as well. I mean between Colorado, Vegas and Tampa Bay, obviously only one team can win the cup. But it would be nice if there was a higher chance of watching those teams play in the conference finals, not bow out earlier due to a clearly inferior team.

Of course, that could still happen this year, but let's take a look at last year. You had 6/8 first round upsets for crying out loud. I mean, thank god Calgary was one of them, but I want the hockey to get more and more talent heavy and exciting as the playoffs progress. The way they go right now I usually just end up tuning out after the first or second round.

Agreed, but wanted to point out that Calgary lost in the ‘1st round’ (2nd series) which wasn’t when the 6/8 upsets happened, that was the play in (1st series). Either way, suck it Flames. Lol

 

[CupofOil]

There's a happy medium I think. Hockey as a sport can get a bit annoying when clearly inferior teams trap or luck their way through games to win while teams with actual talent get the short end of the stick. Ultimately, it's about what you like to see but I wish I could watch the best players play the most important games.

I understand your point about good teams generally winning the cup, but it's more than just that. It's about getting good & exciting matchups in the playoffs as well. I mean between Colorado, Vegas and Tampa Bay, obviously only one team can win the cup. But it would be nice if there was a higher chance of watching those teams play in the conference finals, not bow out earlier due to a clearly inferior team.

Of course, that could still happen this year, but let's take a look at last year. You had 6/8 first round upsets for crying out loud. I mean, thank god Calgary was one of them, but I want the hockey to get more and more talent heavy and exciting as the playoffs progress. The way they go right now I usually just end up tuning out after the first or second round.

Here's the thing... Cloned us talking about randomness, luck and undeserving teams winning but by last years' example, can you honestly tell me that Columbus and Colorado didn't deserve to win those series? They legit crushed the supposed better teams.

I like that about the NHL. There generally isn't a huge spread between the top teams and the bottom seeds so it's a lot more competitive in the early rounds. Generally though, the cream rises to the top when all is said and done.

 

[McOilers97]

Regular Season Demko 3.06 GAA .905 Save%
Playoff Demko 0.47 GAA .990 Save%

Guy might be due for an absolute stinker in game 7.

 

[Cloned]

The difference is that lower seeded NHL teams have a better chance of competing against the top teams than the NBA especially in this era of exceptionally weak lower seeded east teams (without their stars this year).

What is one of the most memorable hockey (sports) moments of all time? The U.S. college kids beating the Soviet machine in the '80 Olympics.

I know we're Oiler fans but I bet you that more people remember the '06 Oilers run than the Ducks winning the '07 Cup, an elite team. Upsets are what create the most iconic moments IMO. The unpredictability, the shock, the "randomness" of the moment

BTW, I do agree that best on best is good too and we generally have been getting that in recent years later in the playoffs.

All I'm saying is that I do not like the way the game is headed. It's overemphasizing things that players and player skill have no control over, like random bounces, deflections, forcing the puck to be chopped up due to heavy systems play, etc. It reduces the ability of individual skill and teamwork to impact the game and it increases the impact of luck and randomness.

If a lower seeded team beats a "better" team by outplaying them, I don't mind it at all.

 

[94 Oil Drops]

OMG. The Canucks can Canucks off any time now!

 

[Gordievsky]

Disagree. The uncertainty is part of what makes the NHL playoffs the best. This year's playoffs are just a watered down version because of the situation but they're still entertaining. Having three teams battle back to force game 7's is exciting.

Chances are one of the game 7's is over by the 3rd period, one game a team holds on to win by a goal in the 3rd, and one game goes to overtime. I'm going to say Vegas rolls the Canucks, Colorado-Dallas is a one goal win in regulation (empty netter maybe), and the Islanders and Flyers go to OT again.

Agree with comment and I also agree with your predictions.

 

[Cloned]

Here's the thing... Cloned us talking about randomness, luck and undeserving teams winning but by last years' example, can you honestly tell me that Columbus and Colorado didn't deserve to win those series? They legit crushed the supposed better teams.

Said it twice already, I don't mind the underdogs winning if they outplay the higher ranked team. Which both Columbus and Colorado did last year.

What I don't want to see is Vegas losing 3 games in the playoffs where they've heavily outplayed the other team. Or both games on the same night where the losing team dominated the winning team.

 

[Oilhawks]

Guy might be due for an absolute stinker in game 7.

Damn man, now I gotta post a reverse jinx

Demko is getting another shut out tomorrow!!

 

[CupofOil]

Said it twice already, I don't mind the underdogs winning if they outplay the higher ranked team. Which both Columbus and Colorado did last year.

What I don't want to see is Vegas losing 3 games in the playoffs where they've heavily outplayed the other team. Or both games on the same night where the losing team dominated the winning team.

Sure but as I pointed out, more than twice , that isn't exactly a new phenomenon in hockey with a team getting outplayed and winning.

 

[Cloned]

Sure but as I pointed out, more than twice , that isn't exactly a new phenomenon in hockey.

Far less common in the 80s when skill and having good players meant more. I just don't like the way things are trending.

 

[Oilhawks]

Said it twice already, I don't mind the underdogs winning if they outplay the higher ranked team. Which both Columbus and Colorado did last year.

What I don't want to see is Vegas losing 3 games in the playoffs where they've heavily outplayed the other team. Or both games on the same night where the losing team dominated the winning team.

The bolded really grinds my gears as well but I’d be shocked if those teams continued to have that kind of fortune for two more series. Regression to the mean hits hard. Would you feel the same if the Isles and Vegas take game 7 handily?

Vegas I feel has choked more than been unlucky. They’ve stopped playing the game that won them games 3 and 4, and here we are. Isles on the other hand...

 

[Gordievsky]

(Sigh). Just saw on Thomas Drance (the Atlantic) twitter that VGK were mocking Virtanen when he was down on the ice injured. It was Marchessault apparently.

I gotta say this is why I tend to stop watching the playoffs when the Oil go out. You try to get behind other teams but I hate seeing stuff like that. Every team has at least one or two players who I just cannot stomach seeing win the Cup.

Go Dallas and/or Colorado, and then yay Tampa I guess...

 

[McOilers97]

If these playoffs tell us anything, it should be not to waste too much cap on your goaltending. Career minor leaguers can stand on their head for a couple games, and proven above average starters can shit the bed and lose you a series. Just assemble the best group of d-men you can and see what happens. So much god damn luck in this sport.

 

[Oilhawks]

(Sigh). Just saw on Thomas Drance (the Atlantic) twitter that VGK were mocking Virtanen when he was down on the ice injured. It was Marchessault apparently.

I gotta say this is why I tend to stop watching the playoffs when the Oil go out. You try to get behind other teams but I hate seeing stuff like that. Every team has at least one or two players who I just cannot stomach seeing win the Cup.

Go Dallas and/or Colorado, and then yay Tampa I guess...

Virtanen is kind of a dirty player but it doesn’t make that kind of shit the Vegas players are doing any better or justifiable. Guess they didn’t learn that beaking has backfired too

 

[Cloned]

The bolded really grinds my gears as well but I’d be shocked if those teams continued to have that kind of fortune for two more series. Regression to the mean hits hard. Would you feel the same if the Isles and Vegas take game 7 handily?

Vegas I feel has choked more than been unlucky. They’ve stopped playing the game that won them games 3 and 4, and here we are. Isles on the other hand...

My point is that it really shouldn't be happening this often at all. It shouldn't even be getting to a "1 game winner take all game 7" where luck and randomness have even more of a potential impact on the series winner. Sure, one of the good teams is likely to overcome it and still win the Cup, but every good team that doesn't overcome it is also one more lost opportunity due to luck and randomness.

 

[CupofOil]

Far less common in the 80s when skill and having good players meant more. I just don't like the way things are trending.

Ok, I don't see this different trend you speak of (the 80s were a long time ago) but the heart wants what the heart wants.

I'll just say one more thing before closing the book on this because I have to get up in 4 hours. I think skill is becoming more emphasized in recent years, scoring is way up and there are more skilled players rising up than there has been in a long time. The playoffs have been a grind for about 30 years now, it usually comes down to will over skill in the playoffs. If you have the skill to go with the will, you'll go far.

Good talk though. Cheers

 

[Cloned]

Ok, I don't see this different trend you speak of (the 80s were a long time ago) but the heart wants what the heart wants.

I'll just say one more thing before closing the book on this because I have to get up in 4 hours. I think skill is becoming more emphasized in recent years, scoring is way up and there are more skilled players rising up than there has been in a long time. The playoffs have been a grind for about 30 years now.

Who needs to sleep?

 

[Jimbo57]

Far less common in the 80s when skill and having good players meant more. I just don't like the way things are trending.

Do you remember Bill Ranford, 1990 cup finals, where oilers won the cup vs Boston? Ranford was absolutely brilliant and stole no less than 2 games where the oilers were vastly outplayed. As a matter of fact Ranford stood on his head so often he won the conn smythe...Oilers won several games that they had no business winning. That was the oilers last cup win, no ranford no win. Now 30 years later you are on a crusade to save the game lol

came here to thank you guys for having the luck of playing in Edmonton on the Canucks side, but i didnt expect this cranky salt mine haha