Around the League 2019-20 - part IX

[Brodeur]

I didn't even realize trades could be made now.

Yeah it's a little unusual for teams to make trades as the playoffs are going on, mostly because there's usually no urgency. But there have been a handful in the past. In another thread, I cobbled together a quick list of trades that were done while the playoffs were happening. Most of them were related to unsigned prospects who were traded away by teams who would lose their rights on June 1st.

But there were some recognizable names like Roman Cechmanek, Brian Boucher, Erik Gudbranson:

May 1, 2000: Kings acquired Steve Passmore from Chicago for a 4th round pick (possibly expansion draft related)

May 23, 2000: Ducks traded unsigned prospect Trent Hunter to the Islanders for a 4th round pick (Anaheim would have lost his rights on June 1)

May 31, 2001: Vancouver acquired rights to (unsigned?) goalie prospect Alex Auld from Florida for 2nd and 3rd round picks (Panthers had a young Roberto Luongo fall into their laps the previous offseason).

June 12, 2002: Philadelphia traded Brian Boucher and a 3rd rounder to Phoenix for Michal Handzus and Robert Esche (the Stanley Cup Final concluded the next day)

May 28, 2003: Kings acquired Roman Cechmanek from Philadelphia for a future 2nd round pick.

May 15, 2007: Boston acquired unsigned draft choice Adam McQuaid from Columbus for a 5th round pick (which eventually became Jamie Benn)

June 4, 2008: Kings traded T.J. Fast to the Blues for a future 5th round pick.

May 13, 2010: Coyotes traded unsigned Jared Staal to the Hurricanes for a 5th round pick (I don't think Phoenix was intending to sign him). Couple more unsigned guys in Jyri Niemi and Mattias Modig were traded before the June 1 deadline that year.

May 8, 2011: Coyotes traded prospect forward Oscar Lindberg to the Rangers for prospect forward Ethan Werek. Werek was a mid-2nd rounder in 2009, but I don't think the Rangers were going to offer him a deal.

June 4, 2012: Penguins acquired the rights to impending UFA Tomas Vokoun from Washington for a 7th round pick.

May 25, 2016: Vancouver acquired Erik Gudbranson from Florida for Jared McCann and a 2nd rounder

April 28, 2017: Chicago traded the rights to impending free agent goalie Scott Darling to Carolina for a 3rd round pick.

May 9, 2017: Kings traded the rights to impending free agent goalie Ben Bishop to Dallas for a 4th round pick. Kings also acquired Boko Imama on the eve of the signing deadline that year.

May 3, 2018: Carolina traded Marcus Kruger to Arizona for Jordan Martinook.

April 30, 2019: Carolina traded unsigned prospect Adam Fox to the Rangers for a pair of 2nd round picks (Fox could have played out his senior year and signed with the Rangers in 2020.)

 

[StevenToddIves]

In a temper-tantrum move? Marleau was absolutely shot. He put up borderline 3rd line forward numbers and his cap hit was that of a borderline 1st line player. The Leafs barely fit under the cap this season. Signing Marleau to a 35+ deal when the Leafs knew that Matthews and Marner would be RFAs the same year was very poor planning.

Dubas did well here, he got full value for a player coming off a bad season. I don't quite know how he did it.

Dubas gave up what is now the #13 overall pick to dump Marleau's salary. The "full value" he received in return was a 6th round pick. This is not fair return. This is the biggest return ever given up for a salary dump.

The Marleau contract is not running another 4 years. It expires after this season. Dubas could have still gotten under the cap were it not for some of the ridiculous contracts he handed out himself. You're talking about a team paying $9 million per year on interchangeable depth pieces like Kerfoot and Johnsson and an AHL-level defenseman in Justin Holl. I mean, the Holl contract -- phew! Extending a guy at $2 million for three years who would not even have a chance to make the Devils at LD, there's just no rhyme or reason. If Dubas were willing to absorb $2 million off the Marleau deal, he probably just would have had to ship out a third-round pick and someone would have made the deal.

 

[Patrik26]

Zacha, obviously.



Brutal trade for Pit, but it helps continue to lay the foundation for another tank in 5 years.

Is that when the next generational talent comes along?

 

[Patrik26]

He’s already 34 years old, and is under contract for two more years. Jagr was only 28 when he left, so the options won’t be as plentiful for Malkin. I could see him and Crosby retire as Penguins.

Crosby definitely - he's a legend like him or not. Disagree on Malkin. I could see Rutherford dealing him to a true Cup contender next season at the deadline and getting a decent haul back.

 

[Nicomo Cosca]

Crosby definitely - he's a legend like him or not. Disagree on Malkin. I could see Rutherford dealing him to a true Cup contender next season at the deadline and getting a decent haul back.

Malkin has a no movement clause.

 

[Alex NJD]

Felt last years playoffs were the first sign the Pittsburgh-Washington era in the Metro was coming to a close, this years results back that up. They might go on another run this next year or two, but after that I feel the next time either is a legit cup contender some kids who haven't even been drafted yet will be the faces of those franchises

 

[Patrik26]

EDIT: Wrong thread.

 

[Guttersniped]

Yeah it's a little unusual for teams to make trades as the playoffs are going on, mostly because there's usually no urgency. But there have been a handful in the past. In another thread, I cobbled together a quick list of trades that were done while the playoffs were happening. Most of them were related to unsigned prospects who were traded away by teams who would lose their rights on June 1st.

But there were some recognizable names like Roman Cechmanek, Brian Boucher, Erik Gudbranson:

How did you not point out the most recognizable name, former Devils great Trent Hunter? Who doesn’t remember the excitement of the Rolson-Hunter trade culminating in that memorable day when he flew to Jersey for his physical before being waived for cap space. Magical.

 

[Triumph]

Dubas gave up what is now the #13 overall pick to dump Marleau's salary. The "full value" he received in return was a 6th round pick. This is not fair return. This is the biggest return ever given up for a salary dump.

There is absolutely no way that the Leafs ever should have expected to give up #13 for Marleau, and would not have done so had there not been a global pandemic that resulted in the cancellation of the regular season and the institution of a 5 game playoff to determine whether the Leafs made 'the playoffs'.

The Marleau contract is not running another 4 years. It expires after this season. Dubas could have still gotten under the cap were it not for some of the ridiculous contracts he handed out himself. You're talking about a team paying $9 million per year on interchangeable depth pieces like Kerfoot and Johnsson and an AHL-level defenseman in Justin Holl. I mean, the Holl contract -- phew! Extending a guy at $2 million for three years who would not even have a chance to make the Devils at LD, there's just no rhyme or reason. If Dubas were willing to absorb $2 million off the Marleau deal, he probably just would have had to ship out a third-round pick and someone would have made the deal.

Justin Holl made the NHL minimum of $675,000 this season, so exclude him from the discussion. Alex Kerfoot scored at a close to 2nd line rate last season and was arbitration-eligible - how much do you think he makes in arbitration? Is it close to $3.5M? Possibly not, but it's significantly above $2M. Johnsson, same deal, you're talking about a guy who scored 20 goals last season playing 13 minutes a game. Dubas knew he was going to have to trade some of these guys after this season so he gave them long-term contracts in order to make them more valuable because he was giving the trading team some certainty about what they would be paid in the future.

Who is taking on $4M for a 3rd round pick? Where is that trade happening? What is critical about the Marleau trade is that it happened in real dollars, it wasn't just an empty contract - Carolina paid Patrick Marleau $3.8M to not play for them. Toronto picking up even half of that money is not going to decrease the trade price significantly - you're not halving it and dealing him for a 2nd round pick.

 

[My3Sons]

If that miracle occurs the Coyotes 2021 3rd we have turns into a 2nd.

Doesn’t the team also get its shake upgraded to a Fribble?

 

[Guttersniped]

Dubas gave up what is now the #13 overall pick to dump Marleau's salary. The "full value" he received in return was a 6th round pick. This is not fair return. This is the biggest return ever given up for a salary dump.
The Marleau contract is not running another 4 years. It expires after this season. Dubas could have still gotten under the cap were it not for some of the ridiculous contracts he handed out himself. You're talking about a team paying $9 million per year on interchangeable depth pieces like Kerfoot and Johnsson and an AHL-level defenseman in Justin Holl. I mean, the Holl contract -- phew! Extending a guy at $2 million for three years who would not even have a chance to make the Devils at LD, there's just no rhyme or reason. If Dubas were willing to absorb $2 million off the Marleau deal, he probably just would have had to ship out a third-round pick and someone would have made the deal.

Dubas was lucky to find someone who would hand Marleau a 3m check in July and and pay him 833k over two years just for a 1st. Picks only seem way more valuable than money when it’s not your money, no one doing that for less than a 1st. Toronto couldn’t split the cost because he needed to be bought out by Carolina, that’s the only way to get Marleau to wave his NTC because he wanted to then sign a cheap deal with the Sharks.

The Marleau trade was in June, the Barrie/Kerfoot/Kadri trade was July 1st, as was the Brown/Zaitev/Barrie trade, so the Kerfoot contract wasn’t an issue yet and Dubas was capable of moving salary other ways in outer ways.
Losing the 1st didn’t seem like the worst choice, I get why he didn’t want to trade one of the big three or ship out multiple smaller role players to make room for a one year albatross. Lou hadn’t predicted how insanely large the RFA deals would be, he’s never been particularly good at cap management but I don’t blame him for not seeing that coming either. Marleau seems like a run of the mill overpaid vet signing that didn’t work out and the dump was aggressive but saved players they wanted to keep.

My main criticism with Dubas is I’m not sure if he realizes how soft his team is and my main issue, and it’s a big one, is that he gave out horrific big money RFA contracts that managed to have absolutely none of the benefits of a bridge deal or of a long term deal and threatened to screw up the market for everyone else.

 

[JrFischer54]

Agree. Teams like the Pens do not value picks in the teens because those players are not likely to help the team in the next 2-3 years. Teams like the Devils value you them because that is the time frame productive players on ELC's will be very valuable. Pitt will be in full rebuild mode in 3 years.

that’s pretty wrong since teams like pitt will need young cheap talent to offset their higher salary capped teams. Also the clock is ticking on the devils and their ELC young guys. If they continue to develop how they should and we hope their next deals will be $$$$

 

[Zippy316]

I don't know why we didn't flat out balk at the 1st round price tag. Kapanen is someone you deal for similarly to how we got Palmieri and MarJo. He's not worth a 1st at all.

A late first when you have three is easier to swallow. Those Johansson/Palmieri deals were done when we needed firsts and high end prospects. Now we just need NHL-ready talent and have more prospects than we know what to do with. The firsts should be in play for whatever is available that fits our team.

I wouldn’t have given up a first + prospect for Kapanen however, it’s definitely overpayment. Pittsburgh is in win-now mode and Kapanen should look incredible alongside Crosby/Malkin. Shortsighted but understandable. Devils don’t need him that bad. Save those assets for whatever young D becomes available and overpay if you have to.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

that’s pretty wrong since teams like pitt will need young cheap talent to offset their higher salary capped teams. Also the clock is ticking on the devils and their ELC young guys. If they continue to develop how they should and we hope their next deals will be $$$$

that’s pretty wrong since teams like pitt will need young cheap talent to offset their higher salary capped teams. Also the clock is ticking on the devils and their ELC young guys. If they continue to develop how they should and we hope their next deals will be $$$$

The highest cap hit Pitt has in 3 years will be Crosby at $8.7. Malkin and Letang will likely be retired or signed somewhere else and Pitt will be in full rebuild mode. Crosby and Malkin are first ballot hall of famers, but Malkin will be 37 and Crosby 36 in 22-23. They need help in the next 2 years to try and win 1 more cup and you get that by trading 1st round picks for roster players.

 

[Brodeur]

St. Louis Blues forward Vladimir Tarasenko undergoing shoulder surgery again - TSN.ca

St. Louis Blues forward Vladimir Tarasenko will undergo shoulder surgery next week and will be re-evaluated in five months, general manager Doug Armstrong announced Wednesday.

https://post.futurimedia.com/ckstam/playlist/10/listen-26417.html?cb=1598454118.272840

Also a questionable rumor this morning that Columbus is shopping Joonas Korpisalo. Kevin Woodley of InGoal Magazine was on Vancouver radio mostly talking about Markstrom/Fleury and around the 15 minute mark, the conversation was about how many teams will realistically be in the market to sign a #1 goalie. He quickly mentioned that he had been told Korpisalo was available although he seemed to be unaware that Merzlikins doesn't need to be protected in the Seattle expansion draft; But both goalies are UFA in 2022, so it would make some sense to possibly sell high on one right now since they might have difficulty extending both.

 

[Devils731]

Wow. Heavy penalty.

 

[Brodeur]

That's pretty harsh, but perhaps I'm just not understanding the amount of testing that they had those prospects go through.

 

[Triumph]

Wow. Heavy penalty.

I bet they get the Kovalchuk treatment in 2021 because Chayka and the ownership that oversaw that operation are both gone. But still, that is an awful lot.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I don’t know if they’ll be able to have a combine this year because of the pandemic, so that’s probably why they got hit hard.

 

[jkrdevil]

I bet they get the Kovalchuk treatment in 2021 because Chayka and the ownership that oversaw that operation are both gone. But still, that is an awful lot.

The problem is they are already gone when the NHL handed down the original ruling. The league presumably would have taken account of that in this ruling. That change of circumstances in the interim won't happen. It is also a more severe punishment that what we originally got for Kovalchuk.

Arizona is f***ed regardless. They are bad, capped out and now don't have a pick in the top 3 round this year and will just have a second rounder next year assuming Hall walks (He re-signs then their first pick becomes the third round next year). That is a hole difficult to climb out of, as we know from all of our busted picks the last decade.

 

[Devilsfan992]

Wow. Heavy penalty.

So they don't have 2020 1st, 2021 1st, 2020 2nd and 2021 2nd if Hall re-signs? Damn!

 

[Devils731]

Arizona is considering entering a rebuild and now have no:

1st nor 2nd this season.

1st nor one of their 2nd or 3rd next season.

That’s a rough starting position if you decide to reset. I wonder if that makes them more likely to try and push to be competitive for the next 2-3 years before resetting.

 

[Azathoth]

Wow. Heavy penalty.

Wow, the league really dropped the hammer on them. I haven't really been following this, but I guess they did a lot of testing these guys?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

yeah that team is back in the crapper

 

[Triumph]

The problem is they are already gone when the NHL handed down the original ruling. The league presumably would have taken account of that in this ruling. That change of circumstances in the interim won't happen. It is also a more severe punishment that what we originally got for Kovalchuk.

Arizona is f***ed regardless. They are bad, capped out and now don't have a pick in the top 3 round this year and will just have a second rounder next year assuming Hall walks (He re-signs then their first pick becomes the third round next year). That is a hole difficult to climb out of, as we know from all of our busted picks the last decade.

Eh, I could still see it happening, just a little kayfabe to ensure that everyone around the NHL knows that the penalties for doing this are stiff.