Around the League 2017-18

[Daximus]

Yeah it's quantity parts bucket for quality 1C in every proposal. Can't believe there wasn't a deal for serg. Wonder what the avs ask was above sergachev for Duchene?

There's long been rumours that Sakic's ask was absolutely ridiculous. Something like top tier prospect and two firsts. Or two top tier prospects and first. He pretty much priced himself out of any negotiations and likely missed out on a top tier defensive prospect. My guess is he gets a lot less then that when Duchene is finally dealt.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah it's quantity parts bucket for quality 1C in every proposal. Can't believe there wasn't a deal for serg. Wonder what the avs ask was above sergachev for Duchene?

If the Avs could have had Sergachev for Duchene, straight up they should have jumped at it. The value would have been as good as they would get. It fits their needs and their timeline.

 

[Flair Hay]

Habs situation is too funny. With everyone catching on to the strengths of drafting and developing, the Habs are a true relic. At least the Rangers do the old school methods justice. Habs moves are just MB kicking and screaming.

 

[Maukkis]

Part of the Habs board has reached the "bargaining" stage of grief. Among the suggested trade targets: Klefbom, Jeff Carter, O'Reilly, Jordan Staal, Giroux, NIKLAS BACKSTROM, Draisaitl, and Duchene. That's just the last 5 pages of their trade thread.

Oh boy. Desperation is taking over quickly.

You could add Galchenyuk to that list. He seems to have failed as a C but he is still a first line LW.

Does MB intend to make a C out of Drouin?

Galchenyuk has proven too little to fetch a center good enough to make that trade worthwhile. Habs fans are raving about the stint he had in the beginning of the season, during which he scored 27 in 30 (?), and then he got hurt and consequently cooled off. That is not consistent enough for me, and I doubt that many GMs are willing to roll the dice either (and even if there are some who would, have fun finding a team with enough depth at C to trade one away for a winger.)

As for Drouin, they have to try him at C. There's no other way. His skillset suggests that he could be a center in the NHL - yet so far, he has not been given a proper chance to show that. Whether or not he can actually do that, we don't know yet. But simply based on the fact that the Habs have nothing at C, and Drouin was the big fish that they brought in by trading their best trading chip, I can't imagine a warm response to Julien saying "yep, he's a winger, and what?".

It's possible but at this stage I can't see it. Lots of Habs fans talking about him becoming a C. Galchenyuk could be added to a trade as well but... I mean do you deplete your wing depth to add a C now? Seems like a lateral move to me especially after losing Radulov. And that defence is really bad.

With Drouin playing C, their W depth would still be somewhat competent. Pacioretty is a damn good player, and Galchenyuk could then be on the second line (he may play there regardless of where Drouin plays, though). Gallagher is overrated, but he still makes a good middle 6 pest on the right side. Lehkonen is someone who people often sleep on - if he can improve his game, they could have yet another F capable of scoring 20 goals next year. Those four could form their top 6 W depth, and honestly, it's at least league average.

And even with all of that... how the **** can you let Radulov walk in the situation they're in?

Yeah it's a tire fire for sure. Price may go down as one of the best goalies to never win a Cup by the end of his career with the way the Habs are trending. His contract takes him to 37. Sucks to be him.

If I was paid 84 million dollars over 8 years and given a complete control over my fate, I think I would let people shoot black rubber objects at me, even if it meant not winning a cup.

It's amazing how league best goaltending covers up managerial shortcomings!

Yeah. Price offers more job security to Bergevin than anything else.

 

[Daximus]

As for Drouin, they have to try him at C. There's no other way. His skillset suggests that he could be a center in the NHL - yet so far, he has not been given a proper chance to show that. Whether or not he can actually do that, we don't know yet. But simply based on the fact that the Habs have nothing at C, and Drouin was the big fish that they brought in by trading their best trading chip, I can't imagine a warm response to Julien saying "yep, he's a winger, and what?".

With Drouin playing C, their W depth would still be somewhat competent. Pacioretty is a damn good player, and Galchenyuk could then be on the second line (he may be that regardless of where Drouin plays, though). Gallagher is overrated, but he still makes a good middle 6 pest on the right side. Lehkonen is someone who people often sleep on - if he can improve his game, they could have yet another F capable of scoring 20 goals next year. Those four could form their top 6 W depth, and honestly, it's at least league average.

And even with all of that... how the **** can you let Radulov walk in the situation they're in?

If I was paid 84 million dollars over 8 years and given a complete control over my fate, I think I would let people shoot black rubber objects at me, even if it meant not winning a cup.
:

Yeah Drouin could definitely slot in at C but him not having played there for some time and the diffuculty in playing center at the NHL. I'm not sure he has the two-way game to do it. Time will tell though. he is great at breaking up plays in the neutral zone though.

If I could get 10.5 playing goalie I'd do it too. Price had complete control over where he went. Probably could have gotten that at minimum from a number of teams in a better position to succeed though.

 

[jetsforever]

Bergevin needs to go

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

Price is the problem now as he won't allow for a full-tank. Price alone can keep them as a middling team for the foreseeable future.

 

[surixon]

It's amazing just how awful the Habs have been at the draft table and with their prospect development.

2007 was there last great draft year in which they got Subban and Patricioty.

Since then:

2008 not one player drafted has played a single NHL game.

2009 a couple of players got a cup of coffee but no one became an NHL regular.

2010 Grabbed Gallagher late but other than that no one amounted to anything.

2011: Beauliver there 1st round pick turned into an ok bottom pairing dmen which is a big improvement over their last number of 1st round picks. Nothing else came from that draft.

2012 lottery pick Galchenyuk has been a bit of a let down. Didn't get anything else in the draft.

Too soon to say about the rest bit 2013 looks somewhat promising for them.

 

[Maukkis]

It's amazing just how awful the Habs have been at the draft table and with their prospect development.

2007 was there last great draft year in which they got Subban and Patricioty.

Since then:

2008 not one player drafted has played a single NHL game.

2009 a couple of players got a cup of coffee but no one became an NHL regular.

2010 Grabbed Gallagher late but other than that no one amounted to anything.

2011: Beauliver there 1st round pick turned into an ok bottom pairing dmen which is a big improvement over their last number of 1st round picks. Nothing else came from that draft.

2012 lottery pick Galchenyuk has been a bit of a let down. Didn't get anything else in the draft.

Too soon to say about the rest bit 2013 looks somewhat promising for them.

I really liked the guys who they picked this year. That being said, they are not going to contribute for the NHL team for a while, which is kind of what Montreal needs.

That 2008-2012 draft history is disgraceful. You can not contend in today's league with picking a NHLer four times in five years.

 

[surixon]

I really liked the guys who they picked this year. That being said, they are not going to contribute for the NHL team for a while, which is kind of what Montreal needs.

That 2008-2012 draft history is disgraceful. You can not contend in today's league with picking a NHLer four times in five years.

Yup, that's why they have been pretenders with Price because if their failure to develop a competent team around him.

 

[Daximus]

It's amazing just how awful the Habs have been at the draft table and with their prospect development.

2007 was there last great draft year in which they got Subban and Patricioty.

Since then:

2008 not one player drafted has played a single NHL game.

2009 a couple of players got a cup of coffee but no one became an NHL regular.

2010 Grabbed Gallagher late but other than that no one amounted to anything.

2011: Beauliver there 1st round pick turned into an ok bottom pairing dmen which is a big improvement over their last number of 1st round picks. Nothing else came from that draft.

2012 lottery pick Galchenyuk has been a bit of a let down. Didn't get anything else in the draft.

Too soon to say about the rest bit 2013 looks somewhat promising for them.

Not to mention trading away McDonagh.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It's amazing just how awful the Habs have been at the draft table and with their prospect development.

2007 was there last great draft year in which they got Subban and Patricioty.

Since then:

2008 not one player drafted has played a single NHL game.

2009 a couple of players got a cup of coffee but no one became an NHL regular.

2010 Grabbed Gallagher late but other than that no one amounted to anything.

2011: Beauliver there 1st round pick turned into an ok bottom pairing dmen which is a big improvement over their last number of 1st round picks. Nothing else came from that draft.

2012 lottery pick Galchenyuk has been a bit of a let down. Didn't get anything else in the draft.

Too soon to say about the rest bit 2013 looks somewhat promising for them.

'12 they got Galchenyuk. True he has disappointed as a C but he is a top 6, maybe 1st line LW. Plus they got Hudon who has excelled in the A and should be ready for the NHL this year. Unfortunately he is yet another LW.

'13 they got McCarron, a big RW. Another who is close to ready but looks more like bottom 6 than top 6. JDLR looks like he might make it at C but again, more bottom 6 than top. Then there is Lehkonen. How many LW's is that now? 8? OK, I exaggerate, not quite but getting close. Plus Andrighetto, finally a RW. Oh wait, they traded him for an older, not nearly as good, wait for it, LW!

The point is that they got probably 2 NHL'ers in '12 and a good shot at 4 in '13. That's pretty good. '14 looks OK, as do '16 and '17. Over the last 6 years their drafting appears not bad for where they have drafted.

 

[surixon]

'12 they got Galchenyuk. True he has disappointed as a C but he is a top 6, maybe 1st line LW. Plus they got Hudon who has excelled in the A and should be ready for the NHL this year. Unfortunately he is yet another LW.

'13 they got McCarron, a big RW. Another who is close to ready but looks more like bottom 6 than top 6. JDLR looks like he might make it at C but again, more bottom 6 than top. Then there is Lehkonen. How many LW's is that now? 8? OK, I exaggerate, not quite but getting close. Plus Andrighetto, finally a RW. Oh wait, they traded him for an older, not nearly as good, wait for it, LW!

The point is that they got probably 2 NHL'ers in '12 and a good shot at 4 in '13. That's pretty good. '14 looks OK, as do '16 and '17. Over the last 6 years their drafting appears not bad for where they have drafted.

As I said way too soon to say about 2013 and on for them but that vacuum from 2008 to 2012 really killed their chances to truly build around Prices prime.

Also I would say withv6 NHL games to date at age 23 Huron is more suspect than likely NHL player.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

As I said way too soon to say about 2013 and on for them but that vacuum from 2008 to 2012 really killed their chances to truly build around Prices prime.

Also I would say withv6 NHL games to date at age 23 Huron is more suspect than likely NHL player.

True, '13 and on are unknown at this point. I think you are being a little hard on '12. Hudon has 6 games, 4 points and a very good AHL record. But he could still bust. Even if all they get is Galchenyuk it is a successful draft. MB became GM in time for the '12 draft.

Not debating that they are blowing Price's prime or that the drafting from '08-'11 was **** bad.

 

[surixon]

True, '13 and on are unknown at this point. I think you are being a little hard on '12. Hudon has 6 games, 4 points and a very good AHL record. But he could still bust. Even if all they get is Galchenyuk it is a successful draft. MB became GM in time for the '12 draft.

Not debating that they are blowing Price's prime or that the drafting from '08-'11 was **** bad.

For a 3rd overall pick I consider Galchenyuk a bit of a disappointment. Not Yak or Murray bad but I'd be a bit disappointed in our scouts if all we got was a 50 point player from that slot.

 

[ps241]

A bit of an odd signing for "Good season Granny"? Is this kind of fruit of the poison tree with those big previous legacy contracts? 3 x $5.75 is excellent value but brutal term unless they feel really comfortable they can get him extended two summers from now?

 

[Eyeseeing]

Yup, that's why they have been pretenders with Price because if their failure to develop a competent team around him.

That's pretty harsh criticism.
The Habs have been far and away the most successful Canadian franchise for many years running.

 

[surixon]

That's pretty harsh criticism.
The Habs have been far and away the most successful Canadian franchise for many years running.

Yeah they have largely based on who they have between the pipes. I haven't liked their roster for years now.

 

[KingBogo]

A bit of an odd signing for "Good season Granny"? Is this kind of fruit of the poison tree with those big previous legacy contracts? 3 x $5.75 is excellent value but brutal term unless they feel really comfortable they can get him extended two summers from now?

Going with the legacy contracts. Minny only has $4.8 M of cap space and 4 roster players short. Really 5 as their 3rd string goalie is listed on the roster at NHL minimum. And they still have Foligno to sign.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Yeah they have largely based on who they have between the pipes. I haven't liked their roster for years now.

I get that but based on results their roster has done very well even when Price was injured.
Price tends to look human post season.
This year looks like it could be step back though.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

For a 3rd overall pick I consider Galchenyuk a bit of a disappointment. Not Yak or Murray bad but I'd be a bit disappointed in our scouts if all we got was a 50 point player from that slot.

He has scored more points than any other player in that draft, of course he has also played more games. In hindsight it would have been better to take Forsberg if they wanted a C and otherwise any of about 4 Dmen. At the time though I think he was pretty widely rated as no worse than the 3rd player available. Maybe Habs fell down on the develop part. There were a lot of duds available in that draft. After Galch 7 Dmen went in a row. Only 4 of them were top 10 good.

 

[KingBogo]

He has scored more points than any other player in that draft, of course he has also played more games. In hindsight it would have been better to take Forsberg if they wanted a C and otherwise any of about 4 Dmen. At the time though I think he was pretty widely rated as no worse than the 3rd player available. Maybe Habs fell down on the develop part. There were a lot of duds available in that draft. After Galch 7 Dmen went in a row. Only 4 of them were top 10 good.

The problem with drafting 18 y/o kids that beyond the elite level talent it is not always easy to find the risers among the duds. I've made the comparison before but age wise it would be like the NFL drafting high school seniors instead university seniors/juniors. Much easier to know what you are getting at 21/22 as opposed to 18.

 

[Evil Little]

A bit of an odd signing for "Good season Granny"? Is this kind of fruit of the poison tree with those big previous legacy contracts? 3 x $5.75 is excellent value but brutal term unless they feel really comfortable they can get him extended two summers from now?

Dat UFA year, tho.

Seriously, it may work for them anyway. Depends on his '19/'20.

 

[CorgisPer60]

Hm. Enstrom has 1 year remaining. If Morrissey works out as a good replacement, how would you feel about trading for Calvin DeHaan? Could be a good #4 LHD, and Snow would be looking to move him now.

 

[mcpw]

Hm. Enstrom has 1 year remaining. If Morrissey works out as a good replacement, how would you feel about trading for Calvin DeHaan? Could be a good #4 LHD, and Snow would be looking to move him now.

Trade? You mean at the deadline? I don't think Chevy makes another move right now with Enstrom, Morrissey, and Kulikov on the team, and CDH will be a UFA next offseason.

...and, looking at the list of 2018 UFA defensemen, de Haan might easily the second best name on there behind 32yo Mike Green - maybe even the best if Green loses another gear. He might get paid. Probably better to replace Enstrom with the Finnish kid or a third pairing UFA that comes in at under $2M, and allocate the cap space gained to the 2C position.

(I assumed that there's no way the Caps go full nuclear, so John Carlson won't be on the UFA list come July 2018.)