Around the League 2017-18

[cbcwpg]

Couture expected to sign 8-year contract extension with Sharks: report

 

[JetsUK]

Page 290 appears to have been absorbed into the HF-O-Sphere.

 

[DRW204]

Still smart of Pittsburgh to make those deals no matter how foolish the other GMs were or how it worked out for the other teams in the end. It worked out for Pittsburgh - 2 Cups aren't erased by Jack Johnson. And at, what, $3.5M AAV? It's approximately the Mark Stuart deal - which was still awful, but not crippling.

yea I don't see JMFJ at 3.5Mx5 that crippling as some people on the main board thread suggests. The last year or 2 they could get creative to get out of the contract. Pens have had good success taking reclamation players the past couple years. From what I understand, he still has the athletic traits and has a strong playoff track record which could bode well for PIT

 

[spintheblackcircle]

showing a compilation of Sharks mic-ed up on NHL Tonite. Pavs goes into the face-off circle against Blake Wheeler:

Pavs-"Aren't you a winger?"
Wheeler-"I do everything, Pavs."

 

[GJF]

San Jose | By Evander Kane

Has this been posted yet here? MUST READ

Players Tribune or rather Kane about how much he loves San Jose and finally feeling wanted by a fanbase.

Man you really gotta love those PT articles. They give you such a lovely view on what a player is like as a human being.

 

[Gm0ney]

San Jose | By Evander Kane

Has this been posted yet here? MUST READ

Players Tribune or rather Kane about how much he loves San Jose and finally feeling wanted by a fanbase.

Man you really gotta love those PT articles. They give you such a lovely view on what a player is like as a human being.

Those articles all seem very similar in style and tone. But they're interesting reads nonetheless. Kane (or the editor) put on the kid gloves for Winnipeg, I think...that's about the nicest things I've ever heard him say about the city.

Interesting to hear about the culture in the San Jose room. It seemed Kane didn't have a lot of friends on the team in Winnipeg. Must feel good for him to go to a place where he's part of the in-group.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

What do people here think about the possibility of Leafs signing Tavares? I don't mean whether they will be the winning bidder, or not. I mean will it be a good move for them, or not?

They already have good top 6 C's. They need a 3C to replace Bozak. They need to strengthen their D.

Will the cap hit of JT + AM be crippling? Will they then trade Kadri? Or does he become 3C? Would Kadri return an upgrade to their D?

Would it force trading one of Nylander or Marner? The return on either of them could be the D help they need. But could they fit that D help under the cap?

 

[mcpw]

What do people here think about the possibility of Leafs signing Tavares? I don't mean whether they will be the winning bidder, or not. I mean will it be a good move for them, or not?

They already have good top 6 C's. They need a 3C to replace Bozak. They need to strengthen their D.

Will the cap hit of JT + AM be crippling? Will they then trade Kadri? Or does he become 3C? Would Kadri return an upgrade to their D?

Would it force trading one of Nylander or Marner? The return on either of them could be the D help they need. But could they fit that D help under the cap?

When a guy like Tavares is available and willing to sign, you sign him and worry about the details later.

Think about this: if they don't sign Tavares, how on earth are they're going to upgrade their D without ripping their forward core apart?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

When a guy like Tavares is available and willing to sign, you sign him and worry about the details later.

Yeah, but that is exactly the question I did not ask.

How is it likely to work out for them? Are they able, or likely to make the moves it would take for them to benefit from the signing? I can see it going either way for them.

 

[mcpw]

Yeah, but that is exactly the question I did not ask.

How is it likely to work out for them? Are they able, or likely to make the moves it would take for them to benefit from the signing? I can see it going either way for them.

They'd have to make some really bad moves to come out worse than they would without Tavares.

 

[MardyBum]

The RHD market is just barren this offseason if Green re-signs. Could be a good time to take advantage of a surplus

 

[buggs]

Yeah, but that is exactly the question I did not ask.

How is it likely to work out for them? Are they able, or likely to make the moves it would take for them to benefit from the signing? I can see it going either way for them.

I think they might perceive some benefit from it, heck, Tavares is an awfully good hockey player. But my point I raised either earlier in this thread or another is that if they do sign him for ~$10/yr then they're going to lose someone else in the equation. And then they're tampering with their rebuild to speed it up. Is that a good idea? I don't know, I don't see them as being that close because I don't really feel that their D and goaltending will be able to take them far. They already don't really have problems putting the puck in the net so it's a bit of treading water to sign Tavares and then lose Marner or Nylander isn't it (yes, centers are more valuable than wingers)? It's the salary cap and in a lot of respects we're in the same boat in that you can only sign so many guys to bigger dollar contracts. TO gets Tavares and they lay out $20-22 million for him and Matthews. Our money is tied up on the D side. Where Winnipeg sees the advantage is when you look at what Scheifele and Ehlers are making (yes, Ehlers is not a center) - roughly what one of those TO guys will be making. Ouch.

Obviously they go for it but I don't think it's where their biggest need is.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

They'd have to make some really bad moves to come out worse than they would without Tavares.

I'm looking for a little more discussion here. I get what you are saying but 24 mil tied up in the top 2 C's and 28+ mil in the top 3 C's doesn't leave a lot of cap space to build a supporting cast. Will Marner plus a bunch of 3rd line wingers be able to get the benefit of that strength down the middle? That is assuming they trade Nylander for cap management as one possible scenario. Or they manage to keep both Marner and Nylander. Doesn't that just further limit their options for the rest of the supporting cast?

Their D has some serious holes. How do they fix them with no cap space? Will they be able to get their upgrades from players on ELC's long enough?

It isn't obvious to me how they will be able to fill out their roster.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think they might perceive some benefit from it, heck, Tavares is an awfully good hockey player. But my point I raised either earlier in this thread or another is that if they do sign him for ~$10/yr then they're going to lose someone else in the equation. And then they're tampering with their rebuild to speed it up. Is that a good idea? I don't know, I don't see them as being that close because I don't really feel that their D and goaltending will be able to take them far. They already don't really have problems putting the puck in the net so it's a bit of treading water to sign Tavares and then lose Marner or Nylander isn't it (yes, centers are more valuable than wingers)? It's the salary cap and in a lot of respects we're in the same boat in that you can only sign so many guys to bigger dollar contracts. TO gets Tavares and they lay out $20-22 million for him and Matthews. Our money is tied up on the D side. Where Winnipeg sees the advantage is when you look at what Scheifele and Ehlers are making (yes, Ehlers is not a center) - roughly what one of those TO guys will be making. Ouch.

Obviously they go for it but I don't think it's where their biggest need is.

I'm thinking 12 each for JT & AM, roughly. Maybe one gets 11.5 and the other gets 12.5. Or maybe they total 23. I don't see them coming anywhere under 22 at the lowest.

After Nylander and Marner their wingers are not outstanding and I don't see a lot of help on the way. Their D is similar.

 

[mcpw]

I'm looking for a little more discussion here. I get what you are saying but 24 mil tied up in the top 2 C's and 28+ mil in the top 3 C's doesn't leave a lot of cap space to build a supporting cast. Will Marner plus a bunch of 3rd line wingers be able to get the benefit of that strength down the middle? That is assuming they trade Nylander for cap management as one possible scenario. Or they manage to keep both Marner and Nylander. Doesn't that just further limit their options for the rest of the supporting cast?

Their D has some serious holes. How do they fix them with no cap space? Will they be able to get their upgrades from players on ELC's long enough?

It isn't obvious to me how they will be able to fill out their roster.

Ok, let's dig a little deeper.
Penguins have four players worth $32.25M (Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang)
Capitals had four players worth $30.138M (Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Holtby), Carlson will be paid $8M this season making their top four players worth $32.038M.
Nashville $30M (Johansen, Subban, Rinne, Forsberg). Next season: Kings $29.125M (Kopitar, Doughty, Kovalchuk, Brown), Sharks $28M if they don't sign Tavares.
It's possible to build top-heavy teams, of course it comes with limitations.

You write: Their D has some serious holes. How do they fix them with no cap space?
My question would be: How do they fix them without any assets?

Three years of posting proposals of a secondary piece (usually JVR) for a top-pairing defenseman on the trade board haven't lead to the result their fans wanted... I guess that just won't happen.
I'd say that during that time, five top pairing defensemen switched teams: Dougie Hamilton, Dougie Hamilton, Seth Jones, Shea Weber, and P.K. Subban. Two were traded for each other, one was traded for a #1C (which the Leafs don't have expendable), one was traded in a bad trade for a return including Noah Hanifin (no comparable on the Leafs for him), and one was a fleecing. Fleecing a team while owning Tavares is still better than fleecing a team while not owning Tavares. Still doesn't work too often.
So, cap space for a UFA. Carlson re-signed, Doughty will re-sign on Sunday, and betting on Karlsson is not a safe bet. Who is available? Probably nobody.

The natural way is to draft upgrades, and maybe guys like Dermott and Liljegren show that they can be significant upgrades. But they will be on cheap contracts for a long while still, not a lot of cap space necessary.
And if that plan fails, the only way to upgrade the D is to trade a "Ryan Johansen". And it's a lot easier to trade a "Ryan Johansen" if you have Matthews and Tavares on your team, because your offense is going to be fine anyway.
Of course, if that's the plan, they should start avoiding bad contracts more than Lamoriello used to. You don't want to end up with Lucic and Russell.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Ok, let's dig a little deeper.
Penguins have four players worth $32.25M (Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Letang)
Capitals had four players worth $30.138M (Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Holtby), Carlson will be paid $8M this season making their top four players worth $32.038M.
Nashville $30M (Johansen, Subban, Rinne, Forsberg). Next season: Kings $29.125M (Kopitar, Doughty, Kovalchuk, Brown), Sharks $28M if they don't sign Tavares.
It's possible to build top-heavy teams, of course it comes with limitations.

You write: Their D has some serious holes. How do they fix them with no cap space?
My question would be: How do they fix them without any assets?

Three years of posting proposals of a secondary piece (usually JVR) for a top-pairing defenseman on the trade board haven't lead to the result their fans wanted... I guess that just won't happen.
I'd say that during that time, five top pairing defensemen switched teams: Dougie Hamilton, Dougie Hamilton, Seth Jones, Shea Weber, and P.K. Subban. Two were traded for each other, one was traded for a #1C (which the Leafs don't have expendable), one was traded in a bad trade for a return including Noah Hanifin (no comparable on the Leafs for him), and one was a fleecing. Fleecing a team while owning Tavares is still better than fleecing a team while not owning Tavares. Still doesn't work too often.
So, cap space for a UFA. Carlson re-signed, Doughty will re-sign on Sunday, and betting on Karlsson is not a safe bet. Who is available? Probably nobody.

The natural way is to draft upgrades, and maybe guys like Dermott and Liljegren show that they can be significant upgrades. But they will be on cheap contracts for a long while still, not a lot of cap space necessary.
And if that plan fails, the only way to upgrade the D is to trade a "Ryan Johansen". And it's a lot easier to trade a "Ryan Johansen" if you have Matthews and Tavares on your team, because your offense is going to be fine anyway.
Of course, if that's the plan, they should start avoiding bad contracts more than Lamoriello used to. You don't want to end up with Lucic and Russell.

Liljegren has 3 years ELC left, Dermott only 2. Are either of them likely to progress to the point where they are significant upgrades within those periods?

Kadri is signed for 4 more years and we are talking 8 for AM and 7 for JT. Of course those cap hits can be assumed to be lower % of cap in their later 3-4 years.

I doubt that UFA signings are a solution to fill their holes, not just on D. With AM + JT they certainly won't be able to target top D men even if they are available. Trades are possible but they need to have the cap space to pay their acquired players.

D is not the only issue. In fact it may not even be the largest issue for them. After Marner and Nylander, they lack top 6 wingers. Kapanen may yet become one but that is still very much in doubt. Marleau is going to fall off the cliff. Who else do they have? I don't think Leivo is a saviour.

Of course retaining cap space is no guarantee they will be able to solve these issues. It may be that signing Tavares has little affect on these other issues, in which case it obviously makes them better than the alternative.

Another question relates to JT's age. Is he the missing piece to make them a contender today? If not, will he still be elite in a few years when they have assembled the supporting cast?

 

[cbcwpg]

 

[mcpw]

Liljegren has 3 years ELC left, Dermott only 2. Are either of them likely to progress to the point where they are significant upgrades within those periods?

Kadri is signed for 4 more years and we are talking 8 for AM and 7 for JT. Of course those cap hits can be assumed to be lower % of cap in their later 3-4 years.

I doubt that UFA signings are a solution to fill their holes, not just on D. With AM + JT they certainly won't be able to target top D men even if they are available. Trades are possible but they need to have the cap space to pay their acquired players.

D is not the only issue. In fact it may not even be the largest issue for them. After Marner and Nylander, they lack top 6 wingers. Kapanen may yet become one but that is still very much in doubt. Marleau is going to fall off the cliff. Who else do they have? I don't think Leivo is a saviour.

Of course retaining cap space is no guarantee they will be able to solve these issues. It may be that signing Tavares has little affect on these other issues, in which case it obviously makes them better than the alternative.

Another question relates to JT's age. Is he the missing piece to make them a contender today? If not, will he still be elite in a few years when they have assembled the supporting cast?

All legit questions, but the answer to every one of them is "better with JT than without JT" imo.

If Liljegren/Dermott don't progress, they will have a problem on D. With Tavares, they will then have the flexibility to trade a good forward for one. Without, they still do, but it hurts more.

I agree that UFA signings are no solution. Trades for top end D might be possible, but the main issue is not the cap space, as it would mean trading one of Marner/Nylander, which will be a large chunk of (depending on the timing, designated or actual) cap moving out in that trade.

The Capitals won a cup with ELC Vrana, Devils buyout victim Smith-Pelly, former first round bust Connolly, reclamation project Chiasson, and 2012 third round pick Stephenson. The depth on top-heavy teams doesn't always look pretty on paper, but the successful ones make it work.

 

[buggs]

Could they move one of Marner/Nylander for that top pairing D or is the value just not there (needs to be a C to get that top pairing D)?

 

[mcpw]

Could they move one of Marner/Nylander for that top pairing D or is the value just not there (needs to be a C to get that top pairing D)?

Always depends on the name. Vatanen was moved for Henrique. Vatanen is not the biggest name, but you could do worse on your first pair (*cough* Hainsey *cough*). He would have definitely been moved for Nylander
Seth Jones? Probably not.

 

[robertocarlos]

San Jose | By Evander Kane

Has this been posted yet here? MUST READ

Players Tribune or rather Kane about how much he loves San Jose and finally feeling wanted by a fanbase.

Man you really gotta love those PT articles. They give you such a lovely view on what a player is like as a human being.

Why didn't he feel wanted in Winnipeg and Buffalo? The money was enough?

 

[Whileee]

Why didn't he feel wanted in Winnipeg and Buffalo? The money was enough?

Teammates hated him, and vice-versa???

 

[robertocarlos]

Teammates hated him, and vice-versa???

The team came from Atlanta, I forgot about that part. So did the core team hate him in Atlanta as well? Maybe they were indifferent until the money phone, etc. I know the fans would not hate him until we learned more but even then we can forgive a bunch of stuff so long as you score goals. And even when he was shooting high and wide his fore-check and tenacity were so good he was still liked by fans.

 

[Romang67]

The Tavares thread is an absolute marvel.

 

[Daximus]

Sounds like an 8 year/$88mil contract for Doughty $11 mil AAV. Kalrsson is gonna get paaaayed in FA.