Armchair Gm Thread II

[PredsV82]

So has the free agent "talking" period opened up? I would think so if the 28th is signing day. Should start leaking who is talking to whom

 

[NoNecksCurse]

Oops I forgot Tolvanen/Jeannot. Thought they were already penciled in

 

[NoNecksCurse]

Poile needs to sign some players. As it stands right now, the lineup under contract is

Forsberg	Johansen	Duchene
Granlund	Tomasino	Kunin
Cousins	Glass	Tolvanen
Trenin	Sissons	Jeannot/Olivier

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Josi	Carrier
Ekholm	Fabbro
Harpur	Myers

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Saros

UFA backup

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Updated

 

[LCPreds]

I’m sure the ownership is going to appreciate that roster with about 20 mil in cap space (assuming Granlund and ufa goalie). Why Granlund on wing with Tomasino at C? I guess I figured Granlund proved himself to be very serviceable in that role last season?

 

[NoNecksCurse]

I’m sure the ownership is going to appreciate that roster with about 20 mil in cap space (assuming Granlund and ufa goalie). Why Granlund on wing with Tomasino at C? I guess I figured Granlund proved himself to be very serviceable in that role last season?

Because we need a long term answer at C. Duchene and Johansen aren’t going to get us to where we want (so it seems). i don’t pretend to know all the X and Os of hockey but i get tired of us drafting guys at C and they magically wind up on the W when they are developed. Granlund also prefers the Wing and his best years were there. He looked better at C last year since most of our other guys didn’t show much production.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

Because we need a long term answer at C. Duchene and Johansen aren’t going to get us to where we want (so it seems). i don’t pretend to know all the X and Os of hockey but i get tired of us drafting guys at C and they magically wind up on the W when they are developed. Granlund also prefers the Wing and his best years were there. He looked better at C last year since most of our other guys didn’t show much production.

I've never understood the "put him on the wing to protect him" mentality. Of you want the player to be a center then you have to develop them there.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

Solid point on the cap space. I’m not sure what ownership is thinking right now especially after Covid. I’m just of the opinion that we looked our best last season icing a roster that had a salary below the cap floor. So the cap space is just circumstance and all the more reason to be positive of our outlook going forward.

 

[Armourboy]

I've never understood the "put him on the wing to protect him" mentality. Of you want the player to be a center then you have to develop them there.

The idea is you start them at wing, give them a chance to get used to the speed and skill difference in the NHL without also having the added responsibility of what center brings.

 

[herzausstein]

Tomasino and glass need center time. Duchene, Joey, and Granlund are not viable long term answers.

 

[Armourboy]

Tomasino and glass need center time. Duchene, Joey, and Granlund are not viable long term answers.

Glass should get that time as he has been playing in the NHL already. Tomasino is a bit of a wild card. Personally I'm probably bringing in a center in the offseason for added depth in case of injury. Duchene could slot in if we need to but with Jarnkrok being gone we no longer have that utility guy if things get rough.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

The idea is you start them at wing, give them a chance to get used to the speed and skill difference in the NHL without also having the added responsibility of what center brings.

I understand that. I just don't agree with it. What are the extra responsibilities? Faceoffs? Might as well have them learn that at the NHL level. Defending down low? Wingers have responsibilities in the Dzone too but it is tougher to defend down low and try to end the opponents possession.

In that same line of thinking, why don't you start defensmen as wingers too?

Edit: If you think of each call up like a tryout would you want to play a position you never play in the AHL for your try out? You automatically Handy cap a player because they are thinking what their position is supposed to do while trying to adjust to the speed of the game.

Then, after they get up to speed as a wing you try them at center and they seem to regress because they have to think and learn again.

It is a self-fulfilling prophecy saying that a player can't be a center and starting them at wing.

 

[Armourboy]

I understand that. I just don't agree with it. What are the extra responsibilities? Faceoffs? Might as well have them learn that at the NHL level. Defending down low? Wingers have responsibilities in the Dzone too but it is tougher to defend down low and try to end the opponents possession.

In that same line of thinking, why don't you start defensmen as wingers too?

If I'm remembering right the difference is your center is generally you floater and support guy defensively. It has more responsibility because it changes based on where your wingers and Dmen are where as wing is more of a set pick up. Someone like Triggerman could probably answer that better because he actually plays ( although Dman I believe), but I know Center in most systems have a lot more to handle.

Edit: keep in mind though that's something that goes back decades league wide so it's not just a Preds thing. I'd also say sometimes it's also about getting the most talent on your roster and there is only 4 center spots but 8 wingers.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

If I'm remembering right the difference is your center is generally you floater and support guy defensively. It has more responsibility because it changes based on where your wingers and Dmen are where as wing is more of a set pick up. Someone like Triggerman could probably answer that better because he actually plays ( although Dman I believe), but I know Center in most systems have a lot more to handle.

You're right. In general the center becomes the third defenseman to create even numbers down low (3v3).

If that's what you're used to doing in the AHL then get a 2 game tryout and you're expected to pull up in the dzone and cover the opponents Dman is a huge mental strain instead of reacting.

 

[BigFatCat999]

I expect NOTHING!!!!! Enjoy vacation!

 

[Roman Yoshi]

I'd like for us to get Coleman or Saad. Both would be welcome additions to this forward group.

 

[predwings]

Personally I’d like to take on a bad contract from TB or someone else and pick up some draft capital next year and then I’d like to resign Ff9 and Ekholm to some deals and hopefully play a lot of young players for the next 2-3 years to mature them all up. Almost forgot, re sign Saros. Then hopefully we’ve got enough experience to push for a cup run again at that point and look for FA options.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Because we need a long term answer at C. Duchene and Johansen aren’t going to get us to where we want (so it seems). i don’t pretend to know all the X and Os of hockey but i get tired of us drafting guys at C and they magically wind up on the W when they are developed. Granlund also prefers the Wing and his best years were there. He looked better at C last year since most of our other guys didn’t show much production.

That's not "us". That's every team. That's hockey. Sure, at lower levels teams tend to put their best players at C. But as the inverted pyramid condenses them down to the NHL-elite... they don't all have the chops to stay there. It happens for all teams, and also at all levels. You step up as a AA center, you may be a AAA winger. You step up as a AAA center, you may be a junior winger. And so on.

I think we've basically already seen that Glass and Tomasino have gone through that filtering process already. They project more reliably as NHL wingers now, because they don't have the skating and 2-way games to ideally fit as NHL centers. If they do get retro-fitted back to center, they'll have to demonstrate new skills and have taken significant new development steps to get there. It's not impossible. But it can't be our default expectation for them.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

So has the free agent "talking" period opened up? I would think so if the 28th is signing day. Should start leaking who is talking to whom

Well technically that was eliminated in the new CBA.

Although it sure seems like teams and agents kind of work around that. A few guys like Hamilton, Hyman were explicitly given permission to talk to other teams already. But I've always doubted that the NHL has much will to police this. Even before, it always seemed pretty suspicious how quickly teams signed some players. And I reckon we're in for that again this year now that the early negotiation window has been removed again.

 

[Kat Predator]

I think we've basically already seen that Glass and Tomasino have gone through that filtering process already. They project more reliably as NHL wingers now, because they don't have the skating and 2-way games to ideally fit as NHL centers. If they do get retro-fitted back to center, they'll have to demonstrate new skills and have taken significant new development steps to get there. It's not impossible. But it can't be our default expectation for them.

I disagree. No one has seen that Glass and Tomasino cannot play C in the NHL. Glass, in fact, already has played C in the NHL. And Tomasino was in Juniors two years ago and was getting his skates under himself in the AHL last season.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I disagree. No one has seen that Glass and Tomasino cannot play C in the NHL. Glass, in fact, already has played C in the NHL. And Tomasino was in Juniors two years ago and was getting his skates under himself in the AHL last season.

It would be nice. But the majority of NHL forwards come up that way and the filtering happens to them all the same. Vegas desperately WANTED Glass to be that C they could drop between Pacioretty and Stone, but they couldn't make it work despite their desperate wishes. If Tomasino was truly destined to be a C, he would have coasted into Chicago or Team Canada and nobody could have dislodged him. It's not impossible to go back, look at Granlund last season. And I'm sure the Preds would love it if they could. I'm just saying people shouldn't get too fixated on that hope. It might happen, it probably won't, but there's nothing wrong in hoping for it in the meantime. As long as you are just hoping and not expecting.

 

[Armourboy]

Wanting a guy to play Center is one thing, him being able to do it is a whole different thing. There is nothing wrong with bringing up guys and letting them adjust to things and then working them into that role. Having the versatility to do both comes in real handy as we saw with Jarnkrok.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

I guess it depends on what you want from the kid and what kind of call up it is.
If you 100% expect a kid to be a center then play him as a center and protected minutes when called up.
If everyone knows ahead of time that the kid is going to play on the wing and you're only putting him in there to get a taste of the NHL then don't expect much.

 

[Armourboy]

I guess it depends on what you want from the kid and what kind of call up it is.
If you 100% expect a kid to be a center then play him as a center and protected minutes when called up.
If everyone knows ahead of time that the kid is going to play on the wing and you're only putting him in there to get a taste of the NHL then don't expect much.

If you are playing them as some suggest ( 2 and 3rd ) there isn't going to be room for protected minutes really. That's more or less the idea at putting them at winger.

Odds are Glass will come in playing center and they will put Tomasino on the wing. Some of that though may be that it is where they have an opening and they would rather him play on the wing and get minutes than not play at all.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

In the end, a lot is simply going to depend on the players themselves. I don't think either one is optimally ready to be an NHL center based on anything they've done to date. Nobody minds if your skating and backcheck aren't quite there in junior if you're putting up 100 pts. But they aren't going to be putting up 100 pts in the NHL. So they're going to have to focus on some of those things to get back in the conversation. There's no reason to think they aren't working on those things.

Also I don't know if we have room to compete for a playoff spot AND live with the learning curves right out of the gate. But if we can't sign Granlund/Haula, we basically won't have a choice anyway. And as much as I think we SHOULD be able to compete for a playoff spot, who really knows... maybe that stretch run last season won't be sustainable, maybe there will be too much angst over the traded players, etc. It's entirely possible we collapse back into more of a true rebuilding team. In which case there is a lot less harm in letting them try to learn on the job. So it also depends on where we end up as a team too.

 

[Gh24]

Ever since they increased the o-zone size, wingers have had more demanding job defensively. If the opponent comes out of the corner with a puck and you're babysitting the defenseman at the blue line, they can just walk into a good scoring chance with all that added space. If you're too close then the defenseman has a lot of time and space to make plays should the puck get past you.

On the weak side you have to collapse so you can support the slot, but if you're unable to get back to defending the weak side defender if the play shifts to your side again you possibly give up a high danger scoring chance.

Clearing pucks out of the d-zone isn't that simple either. You often have your back against the neutral zone when you receive the puck at the boards with pressure coming from at least the defender behind you and possibly the closest forward.

Centers do have demanding responsibilities as well, I'm just trying to point out it's not like wingers have it somehow easier. Someone who has played their entire life (or at least several years prior to their draft) as a center may be a terrible winger.

Centers are expected to make (quick) plays and support defenders in the d-zone and wingers in the o-zone. This is where getting used to the game speed at wing may be beneficial, thought. If you're unable to make a quick play with a bouncing puck as a winger you can just tie it up at the boards or dump it in. At the same time you get a better idea at how you can support your teammates when you eventually move to center. I'm sure there are other benefits in starting young players at wing I'm unaware of. Why would professional hockey teams with smarter hockey minds do it otherwise?

I know what I said may sound like I'm arguing with myself stating benefits for both approaches, but it's just not that simple and there isn't one universal way that works for everyone. If you're good enough then I lean towards agreeing with @nine_inch_fang, put them straight into the position they've been practicing for years.