Arizona Coyotes Lounge IX

[doaner]

Unfortunately, that luxury of not living in a surveilled state is not ours to have. It is clear that men of color are targeted by cops. It is also clear that cops lie. The only way to encourage good police behavior is to have the cops surveilled. Personally I wouldn't trust a cop to save my life after my experiences with them. (and no, I have no record.)

Wow. Way to paint everyone with the same brush.

 

[XX]

Wow. Way to paint everyone with the same brush.

When incidents like the one shown in the video become less commonplace you can have the benefit of the doubt. Until then, the police should be roundly criticized for how poorly things are handled and heavily regulated, both by the state and by independent agencies.

I'd like to see much higher standards, much more training, higher pay for good cops, and less militarized equipment.

But I'll settle for body and car cameras that actually work and don't conveniently malfunction.

 

[doaner]

When incidents like the one shown in the video become less commonplace you can have the benefit of the doubt. Until then, the police should be roundly criticized for how poorly things are handled and heavily regulated, both by the state and by independent agencies.

I'd like to see much higher standards, much more training, higher pay for good cops, and less militarized equipment.

But I'll settle for body and car cameras that actually work and don't conveniently malfunction.

I'd like to differ on this "commonplace" you're throwing out there. I must be reading different news. This is not something I see happening in a daily basis. Have you? Daily occurrences would be "commonplace" to me.

So all police are now "roundly criticized" for one persons actions? No. that's just ignorant.

Speaking of video, where is the rest of this anonymous persons video? I wanna see the whole picture, not just the end result. Too biased.

 

[KG]

For those interested in this topic, an excellent book to read is Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America’s Police Forces, by Radley Balko.

 

[doaner]

For those interested in this topic, an excellent book to read is Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America’s Police Forces, by Radley Balko.

Out of curiosity, what's so excellent about it?

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I'd like to differ on this "commonplace" you're throwing out there. I must be reading different news. This is not something I see happening in a daily basis. Have you? Daily occurrences would be "commonplace" to me.

So all police are now "roundly criticized" for one persons actions? No. that's just ignorant.

Speaking of video, where is the rest of this anonymous persons video? I wanna see the whole picture, not just the end result. Too biased.

It's ignorant to consider this incident "one person's actions". Police mistreatment of blacks is endemic.

I was present for "the talk" that every black man give his son these days. My best friend gave it to my god son... Not just that he needs to treat police with respect but that he needs to cowtow and give the police no concern or excuse that he might be a threat lest he be beaten or shot. I never had to give my kids "the talk" and I felt personally humiliated, as an American citizen, that this talk needed to be given.

 

[KG]

Out of curiosity, what's so excellent about it?

It explains in great detail how the police has become increasingly militarized since the 1960's. Mostly due to the drug war, and civil liberties being curtailed. The author is generally non-partisan, and lays most of the blame at legislators and judges feet.

I've had two former cops tell me they have a siege mentality. One was an Oregon state trooper for 25 years and the other was the president of LEAP (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition), both were LEO's when the drug war really started ramping up. It's no coincidence.

 

[rt]

Careful what you wish for. Body cams may prevent the one in one hundred million chance you'll be injured by a cop, but it will certainly wipe out any chance of catching a break from one and getting a warning, which is a much more likely occurrence.

 

[doaner]

It's ignorant to consider this incident "one person's actions". Police mistreatment of blacks is endemic.

I was present for "the talk" that every black man give his son these days. My best friend gave it to my god son... Not just that he needs to treat police with respect but that he needs to cowtow and give the police no concern or excuse that he might be a threat lest he be beaten or shot. I never had to give my kids "the talk" and I felt personally humiliated, as an American citizen, that this talk needed to be given.

You have responded to one part of my statement. How about the rest?

And I wholeheartedly disagree with your first sentence.

Best of luck to you. I'm out.

 

[Bondurant]

For those interested in this topic, an excellent book to read is Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America’s Police Forces, by Radley Balko.

This is a must read.

 

[XX]

I'd like to differ on this "commonplace" you're throwing out there. I must be reading different news. This is not something I see happening in a daily basis. Have you? Daily occurrences would be "commonplace" to me.

Oh, it happens daily. And compared to other develop nations, it happens at an absolutely absurd rate:

But one recent effort stood out for its apparent comprehensiveness: The Killed By Police Facebook page, which aggregates links to news articles on police-related killings and keeps a running tally on the number of victims. The creator of the page does not seek to determine whether police killings are justifiable; each post “merely documents the occurrence of a death.” He told FiveThirtyEight that he was an instructor on nonviolent physical-intervention techniques and that he prefers to remain anonymous.

Killed by Police had listed more than 1,450 deaths caused by law-enforcement officers since its launch, on May 1, 2013, through Sunday. That works out to about three per day, or 1,100 a year.

THE shooting of Michael Brown, an 18-year-old African-American, by a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri, is a reminder that civilians—innocent or guilty—are far more likely to be shot by police in America than in any other rich country. In 2012, according to data compiled by the FBI, 410 Americans were “justifiably” killed by police—409 with guns. That figure may well be an underestimate. Not only is it limited to the number of people who were shot while committing a crime, but also, amazingly, reporting the data is voluntary.

Last year, in total, British police officers actually fired their weapons three times. The number of people fatally shot was zero. In 2012 the figure was just one. Even after adjusting for the smaller size of Britain’s population, British citizens are around 100 times less likely to be shot by a police officer than Americans. Between 2010 and 2014 the police force of one small American city, Albuquerque in New Mexico, shot and killed 23 civilians; seven times more than the number of Brits killed by all of England and Wales’s 43 forces during the same period.

With just 59,000 residents, the Pasco police department in Washington state have shot and killed four people in the past six months—more than police in the entire United Kingdom, which has over 60,000,000 citizens, in the past three years combined. In fact, Pasco police are on pace to have more police shootings than Germany, with 80,000,000 citizens, over the current 12 month period.

On Tuesday, February 10, three Pasco police officers shot and killed an unarmed man who had been throwing rocks.

Here’s a statistic for you: It's been 31 days since the release of the White House Task Force on 21st Century Policing report, but the number of fatal police encounters is already over 100 and counting. That’s an average of more than three people killed each day in March by police in America.

A total of 111 people were killed by police in the United States in March of 2015. Since 1900, in the entire United Kingdom, 52 people have been killed by police.

In 2010, Packman identified 4,861 unique reports of police misconduct in the U.S. involving 6,613 officers. Almost 10 out of every 1,000 American officers were accused of some type of misconduct. For context, the 2010 violent crime rate was four crimes per 1,000 residents, and the larceny-theft rate was 20.1 per 1,000. Here’s a breakdown of the accusations by type:

I wanna see the whole picture, not just the end result. Too biased.

He also planted his taser on him after murdering him.

 

[doaner]

Oh, it happens daily. And compared to other develop nations, it happens at an absolutely absurd rate:

He also planted his taser on him after murdering him.

Once again, that's a snipit of the whole situation. I wanna see from his initial stop of the equipment violation to where the guy was brutally murdered. The whole thing!

 

[XX]

Once again, that's a snipit of the whole situation. I wanna see from his initial stop of the equipment violation to where the guy was brutally murdered. The whole thing!

Why? That doesn't make the application of force appropriate. He was stopped for a broken taillight, by the way, and ended up dead. That you think what he did is even remotely justifiable is pretty despicable, but not wholly unexpected.

 

[Bondurant]

Clearly shot in the back. There's no defending this. The police officer was promptly fired after his chief and mayor saw this video for a reason.

https://vimeo.com/124336782

Broken taillight? Selling an untaxed cigarette? That's a shootin' or a chokin'.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

While it's true that a picture is only worth a 1000 words, I doubt very much the video that has yet to be shown to the public is going to make a difference seeing as the planting of the Taser next to the guy he shot along with the statement made about the guy trying to grab his Taser doesn't hold water.

 

[Sinurgy]

Once again, that's a snipit of the whole situation. I wanna see from his initial stop of the equipment violation to where the guy was brutally murdered. The whole thing!

I'm curious, what do you think you'll see that could possibly justify this officers actions? I mean seriously, look at that ****ing picture!!!! The guy is fleeing and the cop is in no danger. I don't care if the guy was a giant ****** bag who had just punched the cop in the face and took his taser, it's still not cause to gun him down.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

Clearly shot in the back. There's no defending this. The police officer was promptly fired after his chief and mayor saw this video for a reason.

https://vimeo.com/124336782

Broken taillight? Selling an untaxed cigarette? That's a shootin' or a chokin'.

While the officer does deserve to be charged, at the same time the courts have ruled that the police have plenty of discretion on when to use a gun. With that being said, the officer can shoot the suspect in the back or wherever to neutralize the threat as long as the officer can at least reasonably suspect that the person is a threat to the life of the officer or other lives in society.

 

[Bondurant]

While the officer does deserve to be charged, at the same time the courts have ruled that the police have plenty of discretion on when to use a gun. With that being said, the officer can shoot the suspect in the back or wherever to neutralize the threat as long as the officer can at least reasonably suspect that the person is a threat to the life of the officer or other lives in society.

This is true but not relevant to this shooting. The officer knew it and thus planted the taser next to the suspects body.

At the very least, society can be thankful that justice might be served because one brave soul filmed the police.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

It's ignorant to consider this incident "one person's actions". Police mistreatment of blacks is endemic.

I was present for "the talk" that every black man give his son these days. My best friend gave it to my god son... Not just that he needs to treat police with respect but that he needs to cowtow and give the police no concern or excuse that he might be a threat lest he be beaten or shot. I never had to give my kids "the talk" and I felt personally humiliated, as an American citizen, that this talk needed to be given.

And you missed my previous response to you. While racial profiling does exist, anyone of any color can be the victim of racial profiling as this practice is done by others in the police department regardless of who they are. The growing diversity in the police force while great to see happening hasn't done anything really to put an end to racial profiling.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

This is true but not relevant to this shooting. The officer knew it and thus planted the taser next to the suspects body.

At the very least, society can be thankful that justice might be served because one brave soul filmed the police.

Of course.

 

[CC96]

Look, I usually try and avoid these debates on HF, but that video is too ridiculous for me not to chime in.

I'm not one of those hysterical people, who scream police brutality every time a cop shoots a civilian (if justified), as I'm sure there are instances where police shootings are justified, but I'm also not a cop apologist who makes excuses for officers no matter what the context.

I don't see how that cop's actions were justified in any way, shape, or form. He shoots a man in the back, who's completely unarmed, and doesn't appear to pose a threat. The fact that the cop planted the taser is the most damning piece of evidence IMO, as he wouldn't have thrown it down, unless he was trying to come up with a story so he could save his own ass.

 

[Sinurgy]

It's ignorant to consider this incident "one person's actions". Police mistreatment of blacks is endemic.

I was present for "the talk" that every black man give his son these days. My best friend gave it to my god son... Not just that he needs to treat police with respect but that he needs to cowtow and give the police no concern or excuse that he might be a threat lest he be beaten or shot. I never had to give my kids "the talk" and I felt personally humiliated, as an American citizen, that this talk needed to be given.

If I ever have kids I'll be giving them that talk and I'm not black. While I don't disagree that it's even more prudent if you are, in my opinion the issue with police brutality goes far beyond skin color. The force has been infiltrated by bullies similar to the way the Catholic church was infiltrated by pedophiles. These people are despicable but they're not stupid, they're purposely choosing professions that provide them the perfect cover.

 

[doaner]

Why? That doesn't make the application of force appropriate. He was stopped for a broken taillight, by the way, and ended up dead. That you think what he did is even remotely justifiable is pretty despicable, but not wholly unexpected.

Yeah. No ****! A broken taillight is an equipment violation, exactly what I had posted. I'm not sure if you're having a reading comprehension issue or you're prejudiced against me, but I stated he was brutally murdered. All I want to see is the whole video, not just one part. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

 

[XX]

Yeah. No ****! A broken taillight is an equipment violation, exactly what I had posted. I'm not sure if you're having a reading comprehension issue or you're prejudiced against me, but I stated he was brutally murdered. All I want to see is the whole video, not just one part. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

You responded to the video with this gem:

Speaking of video, where is the rest of this anonymous persons video? I wanna see the whole picture, not just the end result. Too biased.

Way to backpedal.

 

[doaner]

I'm curious, what do you think you'll see that could possibly justify this officers actions? I mean seriously, look at that ****ing picture!!!! The guy is fleeing and the cop is in no danger. I don't care if the guy was a giant ****** bag who had just punched the cop in the face and took his taser, it's still not cause to gun him down.

Its my curiosity. I'd just like to see the whole situation. The guy was clear as day wrong. That's obvious! Somebody mentioned video disappearing, so I'd like to see the whole thing.