I just wanted to use the quote everyone always misquotes.Preference I guess. Watching "talent" get whipped 3 consecutive games isn't very exciting to me.
I just wanted to use the quote everyone always misquotes.Preference I guess. Watching "talent" get whipped 3 consecutive games isn't very exciting to me.
So far, no major disagreements. Bad teams are bad.
And here's where I have to hop off the HiHD bandwagon. Each fan is entitled to their own interests and priorities, but for me, this is the first season since the summer of 2013 that I've HAD some interest in the on-ice product. I know I'm toward the extreme of the spectrum, but the regular season win/loss record doesn't mean a thing to me. I either want a team legitimately competing for a championship, or doing whatever it takes to maximize their odds in rebuilding for that next window of Cup contention. This year it finally feels like the Datsyuk/Zetterberg era is over, and plenty of kids are getting a real shot at learning in the NHL, and Detroit is starting to accumulate assets that will pay dividends in a few more years.
Now there's no guarantee that these efforts do eventually pan out into even a regular return to the playoffs, let alone being a top 4-6 team in the league, hunting for Stanley again. But at a minimum, I appreciate the sense of fully embracing a rebuild, and I'm encouraged by what guys like Cholowski and Zadina will add to Larkin and Company down the road.
To each their own. To your credit, you called it before it happened, saying that many fans would recoil at the reality of what they were asking for. But I honestly view the 2014-2016 Red Wings as even less interesting than the current roster, because neither era was getting anywhere near a Cup, but at least this one has finally pulled off the band-aid, and is taking their chances with saying goodbye to the old core in hopes of building an entirely new one.
Are you telling me that less expectations can be more exciting?
Like when we crushed preseason.if the team was 6-0, we would all know that it would mean absolutely sh*t.
Fair question, and I'll be completely honest. I have not been able to watch the last few games, so I didn't see any of the ugliest results firsthand. But I eagerly watched the first few games, and seeing things like a great pass from Larkin to a streaking Cholowski for his first NHL goal was a whole lot more important to me than the kid subsequently wetting the bed on his next shift to cough up a goal, let alone losing the game. I view it all as growing pains, and as long as I see the kids learning, I'm ok with it.I have a question: Are you guys, specifically you but also everyone else in general, actually watching these games?
In my opinion, what is happening right now is that people are essentially doing the 'simulate week/season' deal in an NHL 18 game set to GM mode and checking out of the game to game stuff. People cannot be watching 3 periods of Wings hockey this season and going 'Finally! Something to get excited about!"
The on-ice product is atrocious. It's not lesser players simply losing to better players. It's lesser players being wholly unready for this level of hockey to the point that teams are literally taking it easy on them.
I've seen a few people respond similarly to you in this thread and I... I just don't understand it. I mean, I get that it may just be the 'oh bleep I've been agitating for a tank so long if I don't at least feign glee now that it's here I'm going to get ripped' deal... but beyond that. These guys aren't learning anything right now except how to get humiliated. These teams that go through these tanks rarely ever have more than a couple guys on them by the time they win, either because they never eventually win or because the player in question (Crozby, Kopitar, Fleury) was a legit elite player.
95% of this roster will be gone by the time Detroit wins another Cup, if they even win one during the careers of anyone on the roster. All this 'learning' and 'growing' with these kids is only going to be useful to them on their next team.
Those kids aren't getting a shot at learning in the NHL. Cholowski is learning at the NHL. He does look like he's ready.
Hronek, Sulak, Rasmussen? They're fighting to keep their heads above water. Basically, they're a stud C league player who jumped up into an A league game. They're way too good for the league they used to be at, but they're nowhere near ready for the jump in talent. Hronek was a big part in those first two goals against in the Montreal game. But having young kids out there scrambling to survive is not development.
I am fine with both of the iterations and just the thought of "rebuilds" and it being okay for a team to tank a, let alone multiple, season(s) makes me violently ill. There isn't some kind of honor in sucking until you're good. You are a professional organization with essentially an 80 million dollar payroll, act like it. It pisses me off even more that because it has worked once (Houston Astros, which are unique in that they could curtail their roster spending and cut ticket prices if they really wanted to steer into the tank) that proponents of sucking until you are good will stump for it. It was never the plan of the Penguins or Hawks to suck for picks in their years. They were literally just awful rosters.
When everything basically amounts to a lot of educated guessing... I want my team to find better scouts who can make more educated guesses with the picks they have than just rally for them to get 3% better odds at something better. Sure, I'd love an Auston Matthews or Connor McDavid. But they weren't the only legit talented players in their draft. If you don't win the lottery, you should take the bull by the horns and do something. Like Darryl in Season 8 of the office related to the lottery. "I don't know what my future holds, but it won't be determined by 5 little white balls. It'll be determined by two big black ones". I will never begrudge winning the lottery. I'd love it. But when you don't, the lesson to take away isn't "suck so you have better odds". It is use what you have already to improve yourself.
Look at Boston. They were about to get written off into obscurity after the 2011 Cup. A couple years ago, they were blah and just had all old dudes. Now, they're a legit talented team who's got a real shot to make some noise. They didn't win the lottery. They didn't suck to get good. They had the great fortune that Brad Marchand matured and became a top line stud... that's true. But a lot of their success is a two way guy in Bergeron who is fantastic and then a bunch of young dudes with huge motors.
Inevitable situation... it is what it is... you don’t rebuild on the fly twice.
Those kids aren't getting a shot at learning in the NHL. Cholowski is learning at the NHL. He does look like he's ready.
Hronek, Sulak, Rasmussen? They're fighting to keep their heads above water. Basically, they're a stud C league player who jumped up into an A league game. They're way too good for the league they used to be at, but they're nowhere near ready for the jump in talent. Hronek was a big part in those first two goals against in the Montreal game. But having young kids out there scrambling to survive is not development.
I am fine with both of the iterations and just the thought of "rebuilds" and it being okay for a team to tank a, let alone multiple, season(s) makes me violently ill. There isn't some kind of honor in sucking until you're good. You are a professional organization with essentially an 80 million dollar payroll, act like it. It pisses me off even more that because it has worked once (Houston Astros, which are unique in that they could curtail their roster spending and cut ticket prices if they really wanted to steer into the tank) that proponents of sucking until you are good will stump for it. It was never the plan of the Penguins or Hawks to suck for picks in their years. They were literally just awful rosters.
When everything basically amounts to a lot of educated guessing... I want my team to find better scouts who can make more educated guesses with the picks they have than just rally for them to get 3% better odds at something better. Sure, I'd love an Auston Matthews or Connor McDavid. But they weren't the only legit talented players in their draft. If you don't win the lottery, you should take the bull by the horns and do something. Like Darryl in Season 8 of the office related to the lottery. "I don't know what my future holds, but it won't be determined by 5 little white balls. It'll be determined by two big black ones". I will never begrudge winning the lottery. I'd love it. But when you don't, the lesson to take away isn't "suck so you have better odds". It is use what you have already to improve yourself.
Look at Boston. They were about to get written off into obscurity after the 2011 Cup. A couple years ago, they were blah and just had all old dudes. Now, they're a legit talented team who's got a real shot to make some noise. They didn't win the lottery. They didn't suck to get good. They had the great fortune that Brad Marchand matured and became a top line stud... that's true. But a lot of their success is a two way guy in Bergeron who is fantastic and then a bunch of young dudes with huge motors.
I have a question: Are you guys, specifically you but also everyone else in general, actually watching these games?
I find myself entertained watching the young players. I knew we were going to be bad and I knew our goaltender situation was dire, so I am not too upset about our record.
The team has been putting band-aids on wounds that have needed sutures.
Coming in with, "See? Doesn't it suck?" posts in the middle of the rebuild is like claiming things have never been worse in the middle of surgery. No ****. We've put off surgery for years and it's going to hurt right now when we open everything up. So take your damn pain pills, do your rehab, and we'll be stronger when it's over.
1) be bad by choice
2) be bad but still try hard
3) stay good forever
It’s almost like people think #3 was an option?
It was only ever #1 or #2. #2 was just the longer route. But we were always gonna end up here.
this is the most exciting season in a half decade for me
this team has been going nowhere for a long time but now might actually get some elite talent out of it,do I plan on watching a lot of games? no,but I haven't been watching many games in recent seasons either
And tbh, it's been 6 games.. if the team was 6-0, we would all know that it would mean absolutely sh*t. This team will win games. They will get Dekeyser/Green/Ericsson back and the defense will become a bit steadier. Mantha will score goals. Etc. We're bad, we're likely bottom 5 and maybe bottom 3. But take it easy, it's only been like two weeks.
This is what a tanking team looks like.
No one goes, no one watches, and not very many people even care.
Detroit is 6 games in and has a game in hand on the rest of the league for 30th place.
They have given up 5 more goals than the team which has given up the second most goals.
Their goal differential is 9 goals worse than the team with the second worst goal differential.
There is quite literally not a single thing to be encouraged about regarding the team on any level, beyond perhaps Yzerman being the GM someday. Maybe.
This might have been the worst and least enjoyable the Wings have been in my lifetime, had I not been sentient for the tail end of the Dead Things era.
But hey, in 7 months or so maybe Detroit will get the #1 overall pick, at least if they don't get cold enveloped by Bettman. This is why I've been opposed to a tank (not that they are tanking intentionally... but man it seems like they are tanking intentionally this year). A couple seasons of this sets the organization back 10 years.
If any of the other pro teams in town were run competently this would be a brewing disaster, but at least the Wings can feel solace in that the Tigers, Lions and Pistons are also all absolutely terrible and will be so for 3+ years as well.
This here, right now, is the most desolate pro sports landscape in Detroit for 4 decades... and we're just entering the wastelands of it.
Ugh.
They're gonna be in the playoffs but I don't think anyone is expecting them to make it to the finals, much less win it all.Now, they're a legit talented team who's got a real shot to make some noise. They didn't win the lottery. They didn't suck to get good.
The team has been putting band-aids on wounds that have needed sutures.
Coming in with, "See? Doesn't it suck?" posts in the middle of the rebuild is like claiming things have never been worse in the middle of surgery. No ****. We've put off surgery for years and it's going to hurt right now when we open everything up. So take your damn pain pills, do your rehab, and we'll be stronger when it's over.
I wasn't aware that they started giving out the "You're a Better Fan than I Am" Award.Benchy-poo, this is a reality check; as a collective, you can clamor for a rebuild and a year or seven of suckage all you want.
These are the "hard to swallow" pills that separate the real fans from the casuals. Will you still be a "fan" 5 years down the road when the Wings have become the Oilers of the mid-2000s? What does it take to turn it around? What will it take to make people believe again?
It's all about faith. Some people believe in "God." Some people believe in "the Universe." What we have to believe in are a bunch of humans doing a bunch of human things, making mistakes along the way. Will people still believe in the Red Wings when it's all said and done? Who will be the true believers? Who will be the bandwagoneers?
I, for one, live in North Carolina. The Hurricanes are poised to be a good team after years of suck. I could easily turn tail and be a 'Canes fan because I was born and raised here. My entire family, however, is from Detroit. 9 Mile. Wayne State. St. Clair Shores. Fraser. I still have family there. My roots are in Michigan. Doesn't it suck in the middle of a rebuild? Could things have gone a more proactive route? Yes, and many will jump ship. Many will say, "Well ****, the Wings suck now, I'll cheer for _______ because they don't."
To them I say, "Good riddance." Take those "hard to swallow" pills and shove 'em where the pie goes. You wanted this cat ass trophy? You've got it. Can you deal with it now after 25 years of excellence?