Post-Game Talk (GBU): Are we toast?

[CatsforReinhart]

Just think the wasted and traded draft picks with Murray. Nylander and trading away firsts and seconds.

We would be stacked right now.

 

[Rastin]

I don't think Botterill is a problem. I think he has a plan and he's sticking to it. Making the playoffs would have been a nice bonus but it wasn't the goal going into the season...taking a big step forward was. We've done that. We've been an above .500 team all year (so far) and that's a huge upgrade on not being above .500 at any point since like 2013 or whatever the stat is. Rochester and Cincinnati are thriving, and that can only be good for the system going forward. We're going to have a ton of cap space this summer, and we have a lot of picks to add to the good system we already have. There's a plan, and he's sticking to it even as the fanbase screams at him to do ANYTHING he possibly can to add 4-5 more games on at the end of the season. That's nonsense...we shouldn't be scrapping the plan and shipping out quality assets just to get a first round exit. He knows we're not a contender this year. The goal is to make us a contender not only soon, but for a long time.

All of that said about Botterill, I don't think Housley is the right guy anymore. I wanted him to be hired and I was thrilled when he was, but it's just not working at all. He's clearly lost the team and you usually can't expect to get them back once that happens.

This is where I'm at. Don't pull a TM and try to rush things and set us back again. We've improved, our prospects are improving, we're going to shed a lot of dead cap, this year and next and we've got a bunch of extra picks. I like where we're headed as an organization.

 

[OkimLom]

[QUOTE="HeartforReinheart, post: 156811531, member: 232743"u]Just think the wasted and traded draft picks with Murray. Nylander and trading away firsts and seconds.

We would be stacked right now.[/QUOTE]

Surprised so many people are so sure, that if the guy that gets criticized so much, if he made the picks instead of trading them away, we would be better off.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

I'm done with analyzing the Sabres for the next couple of months and will concentrate my fandom on St Louis.

Heck, they even wear blue and gold uni's.

I'll still watch the Sabres and subvocalize some tsk, tsk's and all. But anybody who beats the TMLeafs is a friend of mine!

Maybe those 4 years I lived in the State of Misery (Missouri) back when I was younger going to Blues games will finally pay off.........!

 

[CatsforReinhart]

[QUOTE="HeartforReinheart, post: 156811531, member: 232743"u]Just think the wasted and traded draft picks with Murray. Nylander and trading away firsts and seconds.

We would be stacked right now.

Surprised so many people are so sure, that if the guy that gets criticized so much, if he made the picks instead of trading them away, we would be better off.[/QUOTE]
Of course, we would be looking at White, Boeser or Konecny right now if he picked the BPA.

 

[OkimLom]

Surprised so many people are so sure, that if the guy that gets criticized so much, if he made the picks instead of trading them away, we would be better off.

Of course, we would be looking at White, Boeser or Konecny right now if he picked the BPA.[/QUOTE]

We’re probably looking at Chabot and a forward. Tim, outside of Jack, seemed to be interested in dealing with the defense holes, and Chabot seemed to be the better fit for a Tim Murray team as he’s appears to be the more athletic player than the others.

 

[Dogewow]

The fragility and mental softness is absurd. It’s so tough to lump it entirely on the coach when you see some of the things we’ve seen the last month or so.

- To say the air came out after the first goal against is obviously an understatement. Absolute madness that we deflated how we did. It’s contagious up and down the roster.

- Strong side wingers were nowhere to be found on the breakout. And when we failed to break out, said wingers took ferry rides to wind back up thru the neutral zone to MAYBE, eventually, get back into the zone. Despicable. Lazy. Offensive to viewers.

- Gotta love Larsson tripping over his own feet, then voicing his displeasure with the non-call by *crawling* to the bench for a change, shorthanded, as Florida rushed the other way. Didn’t even bother to drop his head and do the flailing arms that you do when you want to look like you’re trying to skate hard but aren’t.

- The only person more dangerous than Pominville to the Sabres, with the puck on his stick, is Sobotka. I’ve never seen someone have to slow down so much upon getting the puck. It’s almost an impediment or an affliction, and not as much a product of laziness or lacking effort. He kind of tries. He’s just bad.

- Mittelstadt turns the puck over and has to let the world know that HE knows he made an egregious error. Just get the **** back in the play, stop the nonsense.

- Brown throws the small of his back into the center of McCabe’s face by way of aviation, and nobody even attempts to intimidate him or say a word.

- We dont backcheck

Really hit the nail on the head with regards to the bolded.

Not a big Housley fan at the moment, plus there are legitimate holes on the roster. With that said, there's clear issues with the team in terms of mental competitiveness and staying strong when they hit adversity. I don't know if there's something inherently wrong in the locker room, or if they panic whenever they get in tough situations and can't handle the pressure of the game as a team. Either way it needs to be addressed.

There have been too many games this year where the team absolutely crumbles at the end of the game by letting in 2-3 goals in the last ten minutes or so. Obviously, you can't win all close games, but losing games 6-2 (when you're only down a goal or tied going into the third), is clearly a big red flag and a warning sign that something isn't right with the team.

There were signs of this at the tail end of our ten game winning streak. At the end of the Tampa game, the team clearly collapsed and seemed to have given up, once Tampa scored that GWG at the end of the third.

 

[debaser66]

The surely learned from this coach how to feel sorry for themselves.

The only necessary culture change this off season would have been to sack this incompetent man.

 

[debaser66]

You have to also adore the cohesion between coach and captain, the former who’s not going to “fault them for the effort” and the latter who calls the same “them” a fragile bunch.

Ladies and gentlemen, Lorenzo Alexander’s Daughter!

You don't think having an incompetent man whispering in their ears having no effect on the team?
Watching them play and listening to Housley in the presser seems to be quite a match.
Weak incompetent people who lead a group can disrupt a lot of good things happen no matter what talent the group has.
It happens in everday life all the time.
The difference here is that these people are all quite young and easier to influence with whatever you tell them.
He certainly isnt the sole reason and things will not magically change once he is gone but he needs to go.

 

[old kummelweck]

When you enter the season with your goaltending tandem being two guys that have never been an NHL #1, some of what we are seeing what I would expect.

Hutton hasn't played in 50+ games since 2012-13 in Rockford. Being a #1 and playing that many games takes a different approach than being a back up.

Ullmark has been the #1 in Rochester the past two seasons and he entered this season as an NHL #2 that has morphed into a #1A as the season has progressed. That change takes a different approach, as well.

Personally, I think that Botterill has two choices in net this offseason. Either he gets a vet to be the #1 and either Hutton or Ullmark get traded or he keeps Hutton and Ullmark and Ullmark gets the chance to be the #1 next season.

I have serious reservations about Ullmark beyond expected growing pains. They have problems between the pipe organizationally as evidence on how they were plugging holes in the AHL and ECHL this off season. UPL is still a few years away so what gets done in the meantime? Do they try and develop Ullmark in the NHL? At what point have they seen enough? 40 games into 2019-20? Fans deserve better than that.

A team this young needs dependable goal tending. We've seen last night replayed so many time this season. There's a D breakdown in a close game that lets the other team grab momentum - then another quick goal or two where maybe they weren't softies, but maybe you could have used a save. If they want to develop these kids right, they absolutely can not be worrying about goal tending.

 

[debaser66]

Well when we play against 4 backups in a row, like we most likely will, we have a slim chance to win a game or two,

Didn't we just lose 3 in a row against backups of non playoff teams?

 

[Tyler2829]

Wasn't the rumor that he wanted Samsonov with one of the 2015 1sts?

 

[debaser66]

When you enter the season with your goaltending tandem being two guys that have never been an NHL #1, some of what we are seeing what I would expect.

Hutton hasn't played in 50+ games since 2012-13 in Rockford. Being a #1 and playing that many games takes a different approach than being a back up.

Ullmark has been the #1 in Rochester the past two seasons and he entered this season as an NHL #2 that has morphed into a #1A as the season has progressed. That change takes a different approach, as well.

Personally, I think that Botterill has two choices in net this offseason. Either he gets a vet to be the #1 and either Hutton or Ullmark get traded or he keeps Hutton and Ullmark and Ullmark gets the chance to be the #1 next season.

If you want another starter than Ullmark and Ullmark be the back up you better trade Hutton because he never was a starter and never will be.

 

[Chainshot]

While the roster isn't world-beating, what advantages do we see Housley leveraging for what he does have? Regularly, what we see and can back up with stats he moves vigorously away from, time and again.

 

[debaser66]

This is where I'm at. Don't pull a TM and try to rush things and set us back again. We've improved, our prospects are improving, we're going to shed a lot of dead cap, this year and next and we've got a bunch of extra picks. I like where we're headed as an organization.

I guess not many want assets to be wasted for short term fixes.
But there is a difference between doing nothing and little fixes or call ups.
The GM did nothing to halt the slide.
Thompson should have been sent down he is not more or less ready than some guys in Rochester.
But there was a stale approach no dynamic.. you start the season up you stay up no matter how bad you play.
What about exchanging player to give spark...too little too late...
Yes the GM has a plan but he doesnt seem to be able to react to change or whats going on in real time in season.
The same as Housley always talks about systems and basics he is incompetent to teach anyone.
I highly doubt that every player is incompetent on this team.
The coachings seems to be inept to bring out the best in anyone.

 

[sabremike]

While the roster isn't world-beating, what advantages do we see Housley leveraging for what he does have? Regularly, what we see and can back up with stats he moves vigorously away from, time and again.

This post should be stickied so that anyone willing to defend Phil because of the roster can see this. That he has little to work with and somehow still makes it underachieve is about the most damning indictment of him as a coach imaginable.

 

[OkimLom]

Wasn't the rumor that he wanted Samsonov with one of the 2015 1sts?

And that could be an option. Just saying it’s not a given that we would’ve taken Any of the guys that have shown to be successful.

 

[brian_griffin]

While the roster isn't world-beating, what advantages do we see Housley leveraging for what he does have? Regularly, what we see and can back up with stats he moves vigorously away from, time and again.

I've made this same argument. (We've made it in tandem.) It's reminiscent of the annual performance review feedback - "he sets low standards, and routinely fails to achieve them". Most frustrating is ineptitude might be more tolerable if there was any spit and fire from him behind the bench.

 

[debaser66]

The fragility and mental softness is absurd. It’s so tough to lump it entirely on the coach when you see some of the things we’ve seen the last month or so.

That’s not even close to what I said, or what I was inferring.

But why comprehend stuff, right?!?!? Lolzs

I was refering to a post before that, missquoted...

 

[Jim Bob]

I have serious reservations about Ullmark beyond expected growing pains. They have problems between the pipe organizationally as evidence on how they were plugging holes in the AHL and ECHL this off season. UPL is still a few years away so what gets done in the meantime? Do they try and develop Ullmark in the NHL? At what point have they seen enough? 40 games into 2019-20? Fans deserve better than that.

A team this young needs dependable goal tending. We've seen last night replayed so many time this season. There's a D breakdown in a close game that lets the other team grab momentum - then another quick goal or two where maybe they weren't softies, but maybe you could have used a save. If they want to develop these kids right, they absolutely can not be worrying about goal tending.

I seriously doubt that there is a guy that the Sabres would be able to go out and get next off season that would be a lock to give the Sabres the level of consistently strong goal tending that you seem to desire.

Look at the ups and downs recently of goalies like Bobrovsky and Price, for instance.

Both Hutton and Ullmark have an ES Save% of .915. That isn't that bad.

Ullmark's Quality Start% of .583 is 10th in the NHL this year among goals with at least 20 starts. And that is better than guys like Gibson, Holtby, Fleury, and others.

 

[oldgoalie]

I seriously doubt that there is a guy that the Sabres would be able to go out and get next off season that would be a lock to give the Sabres the level of consistently strong goal tending that you seem to desire.

Look at the ups and downs recently of goalies like Bobrovsky and Price, for instance.

Both Hutton and Ullmark have an ES Save% of .915. That isn't that bad.

Ullmark's Quality Start% of .583 is 10th in the NHL this year among goals with at least 20 starts. And that is better than guys like Gibson, Holtby, Fleury, and others.

my concern is the number of soft goals they give up. everyone rode Miller's ass, and then Lehner's on the softies they gave up... (I fully submit I was one of them with Lehner.)

 

[Tatanka]

I don't think Botterill is a problem. I think he has a plan and he's sticking to it. Making the playoffs would have been a nice bonus but it wasn't the goal going into the season...taking a big step forward was. We've done that. We've been an above .500 team all year (so far) and that's a huge upgrade on not being above .500 at any point since like 2013 or whatever the stat is. Rochester and Cincinnati are thriving, and that can only be good for the system going forward. We're going to have a ton of cap space this summer, and we have a lot of picks to add to the good system we already have. There's a plan, and he's sticking to it even as the fanbase screams at him to do ANYTHING he possibly can to add 4-5 more games on at the end of the season. That's nonsense...we shouldn't be scrapping the plan and shipping out quality assets just to get a first round exit. He knows we're not a contender this year. The goal is to make us a contender not only soon, but for a long time.

All of that said about Botterill, I don't think Housley is the right guy anymore. I wanted him to be hired and I was thrilled when he was, but it's just not working at all. He's clearly lost the team and you usually can't expect to get them back once that happens.

The French had a plan too. The Maginot Line was to ensure security and peace for eternity. Things change and the best of plans need to be rethought.

 

[Jim Bob]

my concern is the number of soft goals they give up. everyone rode Miller's ass, and then Lehner's on the softies they gave up... (I fully submit I was one of them with Lehner.)

Right now, I am wondering if they need to upgrade on Andrew Allen more than on Ullmark and Hutton.

 

[jBuds]

Loving this new narrative that this will serve to help growth and teach that “it’s tough to win hockey games”

If everyone is at the same stage in development. And everyone is young with no real playoff experience (or real winning on their resume)...its easily argued that this kind of fall is way more toxic than beneficial.

 

[CrazyPsycho]

Right now, I am wondering if they need to upgrade on Andrew Allen more than on Ullmark and Hutton.

Absolutely could be an issue, both goalies have regressed thru the year, lehner regressed here