Are there still people out there who oppose a boycott?

[WaitingInVain]

The problem is that it’s not Bettmans team and there is nothing he will do. Untill we see the deal that was or wasn’t I will reserve judgement on that one, also the llist of owners that have built their own NHL arena’s is extreamly small so I seriously doubt any other owner would have built anything.
The fact that this is the only city in the NHL that is demanding the owner builds a new arena does not help anything, I don’t think Bettman wants fans getting the idea “they better get a new rink from the NHL or else” it’s probably the last thing he and all the other owners want.
Lots of things would be nice but the NHL in Ottawa is Melnyk, it’s his team and there is nothing that can be done until he sells.
Bettman can do math he understands the sens will never have lots of money and he will not pitty fans because of it. Nor does he care they are in last place. It’s a tough spot to be in.

I think you're misinformed about Bettman's influence.

Brian Burke:
"I worked for Gary. I was one of his first employees.

Right now this is probably the biggest problem. And Gary will fix it. Whether it's talking to Eugene and getting a new guy in there, or getting a new owner.

The league will insert some calm here, that is my prediction.

I have confidence the league will sort it out because I've watched them. I've seen them do it. They'll sort this out. If you think we're tired of these grenades going off every day, I can tell you the commissioner's office hates it way more than we do."

Owners care about the almighty dollar, and Bettman is trusted by the owners. He has led them to great profits and they will follow his lead if he feels that an owner is causing negative PR and impacting the bottom line of the league.

By all accounts, he wields considerable power and influence - most are saying that Bettman has already involved himself. He's the enforcer of the ownership group, and they don't like one of their own affecting their earning potential.

 

[supsens]

I think you're misinformed about Bettman's influence.

Brian Burke:
"I worked for Gary. I was one of his first employees.

Right now this is probably the biggest problem. And Gary will fix it. Whether it's talking to Eugene and getting a new guy in there, or getting a new owner.

The league will insert some calm here, that is my prediction.

I have confidence the league will sort it out because I've watched them. I've seen them do it.
They'll sort this out. If you think we're tired of these grenades going off every day, I can tell you the commissioner's office hates it way more than we do."

Owners care about the almighty dollar, and Bettman is trusted by the owners. He has led them to great profits and they will follow his lead if he feels that an owner is causing negative PR and impacting the bottom line of the league. By all accounts, he wields considerable power and influence. If Melnyk doesn't play ball, there will be a sale of the franchise.

Do you honestly think the NHL wants to be put in a situation where the owners are forced to pay for new arena? At most like it says above they will talk to him and make him hire a president to run things.
, I would guess they are all holding out for the right offer anyway. It just depends if someone will meet the price or not.

 

[topshelf15]

Do you honestly think the NHL wants to be put in a situation where the owners are forced to pay for new arena? At most like it says above they will talk to him and make him hire a president to run things.
, I would guess they are all holding out for the right offer anyway. It just depends if someone will meet the price or not.

Because he would get nothing from the development around the arena??Doesnt matter anyhow ,EM doesnt have the funds to do much more than what he is doing right now

 

[supsens]

Because he would get nothing from the development around the arena??Doesnt matter anyhow ,EM doesnt have the funds to do much more than what he is doing right now

He could get something out of a development anywhere and not have to give up revenue. Do you think "go make 400 million and then spend it on a arena" is some sort of a bonus?
The NHL and it's owners have spent years getting different ctities to build arena's acting upset that Melnyk hasn't built one or trying to force a owner in Ottawa to build one would be a step in the wrong direction for them.

 

[topshelf15]

He could get something out of a development anywhere and not have to give up revenue. Do you think "go make 400 million and then spend it on a arena" is some sort of a bonus?

The development is considered revenue,and alot of it ....To get it you need to have the funds to realise this ,EM clearly doesnt so the point is moot

 

[supsens]

The development is considered revenue,and alot of it ....To get it you need to have the funds to realise this ,EM clearly doesnt so the point is moot

The development is not NHL revenue. Why not build anywhere and make money. The NHL does not like to pay for arena's

 

[topshelf15]

The development is not NHL revenue. Why not build anywhere and make money. The NHL does not like to pay for arena's

The team is sole reason that EM had been given this opportunity ,that real estate is prime downtown land ...There will not be another piece like that for decades...It is worth much more than some other development,you trying to downplay this doesnt change this fact...EM doesnt have the funds to build a tool shed let alone an arena...Nor does he have it to realise the potential huge amount of revenue that would make the arena look like an afterthought

 

[Byron Bitz]

I was anti boycott because I felt their was too much negativity surrounding the Franchise and the boycott would only add to the negativity and make it harder for the team to attract talent. We’re way past that now. The teams been burned to the ground and the situation is dire to the point where a boycott is nessesary.

 

[NorthCoast]

The development is not NHL revenue. Why not build anywhere and make money. The NHL does not like to pay for arena's

Unless your the league and in your estimation, no other potential future developments will be large enough and with enough public support to get the same amount, and that any additional amount you can squeeze out of the local government is not enough to make up the decrease in development $$$ by going with a smaller project, therefore, they may believe EM is screwing up the best deal he is likely to get, one that another potential owner waiting in the wings who is friends with Bettman may be in support of.

Or maybe they are fully supportive of EM holding out for more $$$.

Guess it depends how much the league trusts Melnyks business acumen in regards to billion dollar real estate developments.

 

[supsens]

Unless your the league and in your estimation, no other potential future developments will be large enough and with enough public support to get the same amount, and that any additional amount you can squeeze out of the local government is not enough to make up the decrease in development $$$ by going with a smaller project, therefore, they may believe EM is screwing up the best deal he is likely to get, one that another potential owner waiting in the wings who is friends with Bettman may be in support of.

Or maybe they are fully supportive of EM holding out for more $$$.

Guess it depends how much the league trusts Melnyks business acumen in regards to billion dollar real estate developments.

Well like in any development cost overrun or real estate values dropping(like your partner flooding the area with condo first) can cause bankruptcy at any time. I doubt the NHL wants to take on the risk of a 4 billion dollar development. They are not in the business of being held responsible for deals of this nature.
And again its not a good deal for the NHL its being told to go earn 400 million and spend it on an arena. That isn't a hard deal to find.

 

[NorthCoast]

Well like in any development cost overrun or real estate values dropping(like your partner flooding the area with condo first) can cause bankruptcy at any time. I doubt the NHL wants to take on the risk of a 4 billion dollar development. They are not in the business of being held responsible for deals of this nature.
And again its not a good deal for the NHL its being told to go earn 400 million and spend it on an arena. That isn't a hard deal to find.

Finding a development deal in Ottawa where you have the opportunity to earn 400 mil just by contributing a fraction of that amount up front.

If there isn't an opportunity to earn 400 mil on Lebreton, what other project will have those margins? What other project will be willing to give them that kind of margin if the city is not on board with the project.

This is all just more negotiation. It's not the final deal but IMO this is the best deal they are going to get.

If he can't find another opportunity then he can continue to play at CTC or sell the team. As far as I am concerned, he has been given a fair shot at this:

- First crack at unique land in heart of the city.
- Two LRT stations to his doorstep
- Process that provides him favoritism, giving him the leverage to earn money from the broader development
- Price break on the land (after remediation) for involving the sens and selling as a whole...vs individual plots to the highest bidder. (Good read)

Not too mention, building the arena for the right price is important. But so is choosing the best long-term location for your business, because the difference the in the value uplift from two different locations could be significant.


Plus, it looks like the other side would be happy to take on all the risk you are alluding too. The Sens would just have to pay a lease of X amount.

Until I hear what the amount is that it would legitimately take dollar wise from the team IF sales were slow, or the amount the the other side would want in a lease...then I am more willing to believe there is nothing impossible in the deal and Melnyk is just not able to afford his fair share.

 

[KeithfromCanada]

Fans screaming boycott sounds like a kid at a toy store throwing a tantrum for not getting what they wants

Gotta deal with the ups and down. It's part of life!

If you choose to boycott, then quietly leave, why lurk these forums?

Because we love this team and hate that it's being destroyed by a greedy owner and a lying, incompetent GM. The point of a boycott is to put pressure to right a wrong. Do you not feel that the owner and management group are in the wrong?

 

[supsens]

Finding a development deal in Ottawa where you have the opportunity to earn 400 mil just by contributing a fraction of that amount up front.

If there isn't an opportunity to earn 400 mil on Lebreton, what other project will have those margins? What other project will be willing to give them that kind of margin if the city is not on board with the project.

This is all just more negotiation. It's not the final deal but IMO this is the best deal they are going to get.

If he can't find another opportunity then he can continue to play at CTC or sell the team. As far as I am concerned, he has been given a fair shot at this:

- First crack at unique land in heart of the city.
- Two LRT stations to his doorstep
- Process that provides him favoritism, giving him the leverage to earn money from the broader development
- Price break on the land (after remediation) for involving the sens and selling as a whole...vs individual plots to the highest bidder. (Good read)

Not too mention, building the arena for the right price is important. But so is choosing the best long-term location for your business, because the difference the in the value uplift from two different locations could be significant.


Plus, it looks like the other side would be happy to take on all the risk you are alluding too. The Sens would just have to pay a lease of X amount.

Until I hear what the amount is that it would legitimately take dollar wise from the team IF sales were slow, or the amount the the other side would want in a lease...then I am more willing to believe there is nothing impossible in the deal and Melnyk is just not able to afford his fair share.

Melnyk and the NHL are looking for an Edmonton type deal. They are not looking for 15 years worth of work so they can afford to buy an arena.
Another issue is they will never give up naming rights and outdoor advertising on a rink they pay for so Ruddy and the city can build their vision.
I am not saying there isn't money to be made on real estate developments I am saying this is not what the NHL wants

 

[Golden_Jet]

They haven't been able to sell all the condos they have now, I don't know how adding more helps, EM is right about that, but if that's what he was counting on for his share, it never stood a chance anyway. EM cannot fund an arena, anyway that I see it, he'll just be losing more money in interest payments.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Melnyk and the NHL are looking for an Edmonton type deal. They are not looking for 15 years worth of work so they can afford to buy an arena.
Another issue is they will never give up naming rights and outdoor advertising on a rink they pay for so Ruddy and the city can build their vision.
I am not saying there isn't money to be made on real estate developments I am saying this is not what the NHL wants

They won't get an Edmonton deal.

They'll get a DCDLS or Trinity deal.

That's the only option.

 

[topshelf15]

They haven't been able to sell all the condos they have now, I don't know how adding more helps, EM is right about that, but if that's what he was counting on for his share, it never stood a chance anyway. EM cannot fund an arena, anyway that I see it, he'll just be losing more money in interest payments.

Condos are hit and miss ,if the market is hot for them you could make a bundle..If not then yep you are sitting on them...But getting the land and starting the development ,needs to happen ..For any profit to be realised

 

[supsens]

They won't get an Edmonton deal.

They'll get a DCDLS or Trinity deal.

That's the only option.

No,they own an arena they can play in and they are free to leave town. They have options.

 

[DaveMatthew]

No,they own an arena they can play in and they are free to leave town. They have options.

They aren't free to leave town because they are a franchise that's governed by the NHL.

The NHL decides where their franchises are located, not individual owners. Eugene Melnyk can continue to own a team where the NHL tells him the team must play, or he can sell it.

Why is this a concept you struggle to grasp?

But yes, he can certainly continue playing in Kanata. It's going great for them right now.

 

[darnok]

Here's another example. I did a search of Boycott threads in HF boards.

Maple Leafs set to blow up roster

Check the list of "untouchables" - that worked out.

So Toronto's rebuild took 3-4 years!

 

[supsens]

They aren't free to leave town because they are a franchise that's governed by the NHL.

The NHL decides where their franchises are located, not individual owners. Eugene Melnyk can continue to own a team where the NHL tells him the team must play, or he can sell it.

Why is this a concept you struggle to grasp?

But yes, he can certainly continue playing in Kanata. It's going great for them right now.

What am I failing to grasp? I said they. And yes the NHL decides not you

 

[NorthCoast]

Melnyk and the NHL are looking for an Edmonton type deal. They are not looking for 15 years worth of work so they can afford to buy an arena.
Another issue is they will never give up naming rights and outdoor advertising on a rink they pay for so Ruddy and the city can build their vision.
I am not saying there isn't money to be made on real estate developments I am saying this is not what the NHL wants

Agreed.

But that deal doesn’t come without its own costs. Chiefly, the time you have to wait around for the right combination of government/city support to be available.

Essentially, Edmonton was able to wait it out for ten years. Is Melnyk willing to do the same? What if it’s 15 years?

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

So Toronto's rebuild took 3-4 years!

Really 2 years, once they went all in -->2 years to fill the kitty with draft picks. They also won the Calder in there, I believe.

 

[supsens]

Agreed.

But that deal doesn’t come without its own costs. Chiefly, the time you have to wait around for the right combination of government/city support to be available.

Essentially, Edmonton was able to wait it out for ten years. Is Melnyk willing to do the same? What if it’s 15 years?

I personly think he wants to sell, the BOG is going to demand more then most are willing to pay tho.