Are the Leafs built to compete and win?

[Tak7]

I keep looking at teams like Washington, Pittsburgh, or Tampa and try to remind myself how good they've been and for how long. Fast forwarding a few years the Leafs will have improved, right now it's a development year any way you look at it IMO. I'm just hoping for some improvement, in the form of making it out of round 1.

Yep.

And it took those teams a while to figure it out and eventually win (or in Tampa's case, they still haven't).

 

[Mess]

The Leafs are #1 in most goals for (34) and #5 worst in most goals against (30) and that is not a recipe for success by outscoring your mistakes as a strategy. IMO

 

[Morbo]

The Leafs are #1 in most goals for (34) and #5 worst in most goals against (30) and that is not a recipe for success by outscoring your mistakes as a strategy. IMO

"IMO"

another great post Mess

 

[IPS]

It tells me we need more Hyman.
Each line needs a whisky chaser.
Matthews needs a skilled heavy player on his line (because Bergeron/Marchand will play down low) and Kadri needs his Komarov back. Kadri is a tag team. He needs a little crazy in his game because passive Kadri is too passive.

No, we really don't.

We found our game after those first 2 stinkers. Games 3-6 we were the better team. Boston was very lucky to win game 4 where Bergeron was out. And that ridiculous parade of penalties in game 5 was a massive farce. We lost a close series, and with a couple simple adjustments we could have easily won it.

Our team has this weird identity crisis. We got all the pieces to be a speedy, lightning transition, tenacious team like the Penguins or Bolts but we have a lot of dump-and-chase, long-stretch pass bullshit mixed in with it.

 

[Luminiferous]

He is not wrong. Leafs won't be doing any real damage until the back end matures and is augmented further.





IMO. OF COURSE. IMO.

 

[Trapper]

No, we really don't.

We found our game after those first 2 stinkers. Games 3-6 we were the better team. Boston was very lucky to win game 4 where Bergeron was out. And that ridiculous parade of penalties in game 5 was a massive farce. We lost a close series, and with a couple simple adjustments we could have easily won it.

Our team has this weird identity crisis. We got all the pieces to be a speedy, lightning transition, tenacious team like the Penguins or Bolts but we have a lot of dump-and-chase, long-stretch pass bull**** mixed in with it.

I love how everyone is “lucky” to win against us. They pounded us down in the 1st 2, we got up but Boston won it when it counted by hard work and stronger play.
Yeah we really do need more players like Hyman. Look carefully, that’s the way you need to play in the playoffs. Now can some of the players we have do those things? For sure but it needs to be proven. Not going to win on the perimeter and letting the other team win the puck battles. At least not until the NHL goes no touching allowed.

 

[IPS]

I love how everyone is “lucky” to win against us. They pounded us down in the 1st 2, we got up but Boston won it when it counted by hard work and stronger play.
Yeah we really do need more players like Hyman. Look carefully, that’s the way you need to play in the playoffs. Now can some of the players we have do those things? For sure but it needs to be proven. Not going to win on the perimeter and letting the other team win the puck battles. At least not until the NHL goes no touching allowed.

Look at what Tampa did to them the very next series.

The Point line - despite their diminutive size - was hard to play against, tenacious and fearless. When the small guys like Point and Johnson refused to take crap from Boston and refused to be bullied, their speed game completely decimated the Bruins.

We don't need anymore Hymans, Komarovs and Browns on the Leafs. We need our skilled guys to play like Point, Johnson and Palat did against the Bruins.

 

[Trapper]

Look at what Tampa did to them the very next series.

The Point line - despite their diminutive size - was hard to play against, tenacious and fearless. When the small guys like Point and Johnson refused to take crap from Boston and refused to be bullied, their speed game completely decimated the Bruins.

We don't need anymore Hymans, Komarovs and Browns on the Leafs. We need our skilled guys to play like Point, Johnson and Palat did against the Bruins.

You just said what I said in your post.
We took crap, weren’t tenacious and for the most part stayed on the outside.
More Hyman isn’t just Zach Hyman. It’s the way he plays which is exactly how you described Tampa vs. Boston above. That wasn’t Toronto vs. Boston.

 

[IPS]

You just said what I said in your post.
We took crap, weren’t tenacious and for the most part stayed on the outside.
More Hyman isn’t just Zach Hyman. It’s the way he plays which is exactly how you described Tampa vs. Boston above. That wasn’t Toronto vs. Boston.

You said this specifically:

I love how everyone is “lucky” to win against us. They pounded us down in the 1st 2, we got up but Boston won it when it counted by hard work and stronger play.
Yeah we really do need more players like Hyman. Look carefully, that’s the way you need to play in the playoffs. Now can some of the players we have do those things? For sure but it needs to be proven. Not going to win on the perimeter and letting the other team win the puck battles. At least not until the NHL goes no touching allowed.

So did you mean to say that we need our current players to play more like Hyman? I agree 100%. No need to further this argument if that's the case.

 

[Trapper]

You said this specifically:



So did you mean to say that we need our current players to play more like Hyman? I agree 100%. No need to further this argument if that's the case.

Now we are on the same page. That’s when I said can some of those players do that? For sure. That falls on the support like Johnsson/Kappy/Leivo/etc. If they want to stay in the lineup. If they can’t support, then eventually you have to change.

 

[Hunter368]

I think toughness is a bit over usedword in the nhl especially as it relates to playoff success. Give me heart, hard work and tenacity over toughness......skill being all equal.

 

[LeafFever]

The analyst Craig Buttons comments following last nights debacle against St Louis , combined with other expert insights have made for some introspective thoughts:

His summary of the game was that “the Leafs were beaten to the puck all night long, they lost the physical battles on the boards-the reason there was no room out there was because they couldn’t create any.

The “expert insight” heard elsewhere was that the word was out in the league on how to play the Leafs; no penalties, clog the middle, force them to the boards, be physical”. He also opined that the Leafs lacked the colourful character(s) that could inject needed energy when needed (like a Bob Kelly could do with the Flyers years ago)

Is the numbing trap that St Louis threw on us a harbinger of things to come? Are we going to be watching many such games where we can never seem to muster any sustained possession? Are we doomed to “dump and chase”, forced on us by our opponents, with players not suited for that type of game? Is Shanahan’s template of clean quick talent fatally flawed, good in “loosely, goosey early October only? Should every talented tandem, be it Matthews/Kapanen or Tavares/Marner, should each line have the beefy large winger for those board battles? Should we sacrifice some defensive finesse and puck handling for a few Josh Manson types that will punish enemy forwards that get too close?

I will cheer them always, ever since I fell in love with them in the late sixties, and I will yearn for every magical moment that we saw early on, I will never stop. This is not about firing the coach or how bad a particular player is, or bad refs, or how we are missing Nylander, I am looking at the foundation of this team.

What say you? Will we adjust? Do we have the right parts to combat and adjust to the “clogging” we will see? And this isn’t about toughness, God knows that’s been dissected, I don’t buy that we can be intimidated-look how we hit back at Boston in last years playoffs (I even added up the heights and weights of the Leafs roster and compared it to several other teams-we are no pushovers.

Will that be the solution? Will we see a much more physical team?

What say you? I hope you are a real fan, that you know they are trying their best, that you will tough it out through thick and thin.

Whats's funny about quoting Button and believing too much into what he is saying is, the very next game he'as now praising the Leafs as a contender. Button is no different than the posters in this thread who stated suddenly the Leafs might not even make the playoffs.

This team has the talent to truly be an elite contender. It's 82 games. Pace yourselves. There will be ups-and-downs.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/button-leafs-showed-they-are-stanley-cup-contenders~1522645

 

[ottomaddox]

In my humblest opinion no. The leafs are not yet built to compete and win.

Come at me bro.



Edit - i still think the leafs need 3 more players to make them world beaters: A power forward and 2 defensive d-men.

 

[LeafFever]

In my humblest opinion no. The leafs are not yet built to compete and win.

Come at me bro.

Next time the Leafs lose, Button will agree with you.

 

[dangomon]

The Leafs are #1 in most goals for (34) and #5 worst in most goals against (30) and that is not a recipe for success by outscoring your mistakes as a strategy. IMO

5th worst in GA is a misleading stat. 13th in GA/G, so a middle of the pack defence with the second best offensive production. Not to mention we have 4 empty net goals against (not really indicative of team defence).

 

[LeafFever]

The GA has come down since the first 6 games. Same as last year. After Jan 1st we allowed the least GA in the East.

 

[Liminality]

The GA has come down since the first 6 games. Same as last year. After Jan 1st we allowed the least GA in the East.

Happens every year I bet.

 

[LeafFever]

Our D looked better than the Jets D last night. No one noticed and no one will care.

 

[ottomaddox]

Our D looked better than the Jets D last night. No one noticed and no one will care.

I care. I just wish it was consistant. I really hope it gets there.

 

[SprDaVE]

Our D looked better than the Jets D last night. No one noticed and no one will care.

Yeah it's weird how one of the most favoured defensive cores in the league allowed close to 40 shots and a bunch of odd-man rushes.

 

[LeafFever]

Yeah it's weird how one of the most favoured defensive cores in the league allowed close to 40 shots and a bunch of odd-man rushes.

The Jets just get no criticism. They are the darlings of the NHl despite the constant narrative the media loves the Leafs. All I read everyday is how the Leafs are about to lose all their young players due to the cap and their D is horrific.
Everything is not perfect with the Jets at all. They themselves have big-time cap issues and they are not playing very well. And they are hands-down Canada's pick to win the cap.

 

[613Leafer]

Toronto hasn't been top 10 in goals against since 1993-1994 (where we were 6th out of 26 teams). Not sure why we've been so consistently terrible, and in our good years average-ish, defensively. We've had a bunch of different GMs during that time period, so it's not like they've been operating under a consistent philosophy that ignores defence.

When 1/3 teams in the league (or more, given there were <30 teams for some of those years) finish top 10 in goals against every single year, it's really absurd to think the Leafs haven't done it in 24 years. The average team should have ~8 top 10 finishes or so during that time period.

Pretty frustrating for this to just constantly be an issue. Leafs have had concerns defensively for a quarter century straight now.

 

[zeke]

Our D looked better than the Jets D last night. No one noticed and no one will care.

The Jets only have 3 nhl dmen.

Myers,Kulikov, and chiarot/whoever are horrendous.

And even Buff and trouba, while excellent, are prone to jake-like brainfarts.

 

[zeke]

Toronto hasn't been top 10 in goals against since 1993-1994 (where we were 6th out of 26 teams). Not sure why we've been so consistently terrible, and in our good years average-ish, defensively. We've had a bunch of different GMs during that time period, so it's not like they've been operating under a consistent philosophy that ignores defence.

When 1/3 teams in the league (or more, given there were <30 teams for some of those years) finish top 10 in goals against every single year, it's really absurd to think the Leafs haven't done it in 24 years. The average team should have ~8 top 10 finishes or so during that time period.

Pretty frustrating for this to just constantly be an issue. Leafs have had concerns defensively for a quarter century straight now.

Leafs were 12th in goal against last year.

 

[X66]

The Leafs are #1 in most goals for (34) and #5 worst in most goals against (30) and that is not a recipe for success by outscoring your mistakes as a strategy. IMO

Yet they are still middle of the pack for goals allowed per-game, and 2nd in goals per-game.

Look at games played...

In fact, the last 2 cup winners.

Caps: Middle of the pack goals against, top 10 goals for(per game)

Pens: Middle of the pack goals against, 1st in goals for(per game)

So what I'm trying to say is, what are you talking about?

Btw, I don't expect a response lol.