Are the Leafs built to compete and win?

[Faltorvo]

IMO, on paper, this team isn't far off what the Pens won back to back cups with. So yes.

we need this season for growth purposes then we should be good to go.

we are only 9 games into the 3rd season for many of our players, many of them are high end core players.

some are just entering their "prime years"+ experience behind them kadri,MR,JG,JT

zait,AM,MM,WN,hyman,brown,andy , still growing into the experience part.

and promising new guys, like Lindholm, OZ,Dermott,Goat,Kappy

 

[Tak7]

I said no in the offseason, because I think this team is too soft, and I got destroyed for it.

I've seen nothing so far to suggest differently from my off-season prediction.

There's people here who legitimately think the Leafs are contenders, and those people are going to be very disappointed come April.

This team is knocking on the door of it's winning window. It's not in that window. Not yet.

 

[Faltorvo]

I said no in the offseason, because I think this team is too soft, and I got destroyed for it.

I've seen nothing so far to suggest differently from my off-season prediction.

There's people here who legitimately think the Leafs are contenders, and those people are going to be very disappointed come April.

This team is knocking on the door of it's winning window. It's not in that window. Not yet.

naw,, your just wrong

this roster can win a cup this year

 

[Trapper]

naw,, your just wrong

this roster can win a cup this year

Neither of you are wrong.
Start by winning a playoff round 1st, then win the Cup.
No matter how good you think you are there is always some deficiencies. Some are minor and some expose major weaknesses.

It’s up to Dubas to address these.
For right now, there are a handful of support players that need to start playing better. Then by Thanksgiving, we should have a better feel.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Yeah but how confident are you with guys like Hainsey and Zaitsev playing the minutes they are? Andersen's gonna need to bring some real magic.

A lot of people were calling for Gardiner to be traded into the offseason and wanted Dermott to be promoted to his spot Thank god we didn't follow through with that. Throwing Dermott with his 48 games of NHL experience in Gardiner's role is a suicide mission.

I was good with Gardiner being traded for a younger defensive minded top 4 d'man, in the off season. I dont think Dermott will be ready for long hard top 4 minutes until next season. I'm ok, with Zaitsev, I dunno if Hainsey can step up and play a lot of 5-vs-5 playoff minutes, i dont think he has a playoff beast mode left in him.

 

[Faltorvo]

Neither of you are wrong.
Start by winning a playoff round 1st, then win the Cup.
No matter how good you think you are there is always some deficiencies. Some are minor and some expose major weaknesses.

It’s up to Dubas to address these.
For right now, there are a handful of support players that need to start playing better. Then by Thanksgiving, we should have a better feel.

the OP is "compete and win"

the answer is a obvious YES they are built to compete and can win

"can win" is all you can say about any/every top end team

there is no guaranteed cup winner.

 

[WTFMAN99]

They really could use some more sandpaper, like 2 more guys just to bring that element.

Back end - McQuaid or Gudas

Up front - Anderson, Simmonds or Ferland.

 

[Mr Hockey]

They really could use some more sandpaper, like 2 more guys just to bring that element.

Back end - McQuaid or Gudas

Up front - Anderson, Simmonds or Ferland.

So we are missing Polak skill set on the 3rd pairing?

 

[Trapper]

the OP is "compete and win"

the answer is a obvious YES they are built to compete and can win

"can win" is all you can say about any/every top end team

there is no guaranteed cup winner.

Actually the OP is “are they?”
Therefore to you they are, to the other poster they are not.
If you think they are missing key ingredients, your answer would be are not.

 

[WTFMAN99]

So we are missing Polak skill set on the 3rd pairing?

We need defenseman that are hard to play against for sure. I don't think Polak was hard to play against, he wasn't very good. Gudas has sneaky good zone entry defense. McQuaid might be closer to Polak skillset wise but can throw punches which buys him some respect when he's on the ice.

I like our skill but we're soft.

 

[Leafling]

He should have 7 hits per game....

Were you dropped as a child!
7 hits in 7 odd games is physical to u lol

Marleau has that many hits right now... I love kadri but don't be such a blind supporter, as i said he hasn't started off great but is catching up n will soon contribute to the grit this team team really needs from him

And since u made me look up stats, Hyman (18) and zaitsev (21!) are already doing their part in that regard and it shows when they are on ice.

I can't really debate with a know it all guy like u so this will be my last reply.

 

[Nineteen67]

Were you dropped as a child!
7 hits in 7 odd games is physical to u lol

Marleau has that many hits right now... I love kadri but don't be such a blind supporter, as i said he hasn't started off great but is catching up n will soon contribute to the grit this team team really needs from him

And since u made me look up stats, Hyman (18) and zaitsev (21!) are already doing their part in that regard and it shows when they are on ice.

I can't really debate with a know it all guy like u so this will be my last reply.

I’ll say it again, He (Kadri) should have 7 hits per game. Not 7 hits in 9 games.

BTW, Marleau had 4 hits against MTL.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Matthews needs a skilled winger with size (or rather someone who can use his body consistently)

i can afford that if he takes 9 AAV.

 

[moon111]

Seriously? you're missing Komarov ,Bozak and JVR? You can always go cheer for them on their new teams! How did they make out with those guys 'contributing'? You can't think they were better! Too early to conclude anything! No Willy either! They will likely get more consistent!

But those guys did contribute. Komarov might of shot a pass wide of the net, but that doesn't mean he wasn't usually on the right side of the puck. Or that he didn't hit. If you start ranking forwards based on the performance to keep the puck out of their own net, Komarov was a star forward on the team. Just the type of player some GM trying to recreate the boring trap Devils-style team would love to have. Bozak was a decent enough playmaker. At one point we had Nylander/Marner/Bozak running a line. This year, it's Matthews and Tavares/Marner. The play-making depth is hurting the 3rd line. In that category, our depth isn't any better with Nylander gone. It's great we have Tavares, but his salary means you're playing someone like Josh Leivo. With the Leafs early explosion in offense, those two combine for 1.4 pts/game. JVR and Bozak had 1.2 pts/game last season. Yes there has been additions, but there has been subtractions as well. Since 2009, John Tavares has recorded 643 giveaways. 75 more then Bozak, JVR, and Komarov combined. Tavares isn't getting treated like Jake Gardiner because he's new. We don't have years of accumulated memories of him messing up either.

 

[Havoc]

I find that very hard to believe.

Then watch a game. (edit- I mean the games we played like a snooze fest and the other team played like a NHL team for once).

It's same thing every shift.

Matthews smothered.

Then the rest is like basketball when you leave a player open for a 3 pointer because you're not scared of them.

Open dudes at the 3- Marleau and Kapanen

Matthews shut down.

With Nylander you have to disperse resources. I'm not saying him and Matthews will own every shift, that would be absurd. I'm saying they'll just be their normal elite 5 on 5 line because the dynamics work better.

If you don't believe that then your opinion is confusing to me because their 5 on 5 stats is public for everyone to see.

 

[ULF_55]

naw,, your just wrong

this roster can win a cup this year

I haven't checked the standings, but I believe at this point 31 team could win the Cup this year.

I'd guess all 31 of them have some holes, just some have bigger holes.

Leafs could use some determination.

 

[Trapper]

But those guys did contribute. Komarov might of shot a pass wide of the net, but that doesn't mean he wasn't usually on the right side of the puck. Or that he didn't hit. If you start ranking forwards based on the performance to keep the puck out of their own net, Komarov was a star forward on the team. Just the type of player some GM trying to recreate the boring trap Devils-style team would love to have. Bozak was a decent enough playmaker. At one point we had Nylander/Marner/Bozak running a line. This year, it's Matthews and Tavares/Marner. The play-making depth is hurting the 3rd line. In that category, our depth isn't any better with Nylander gone. It's great we have Tavares, but his salary means you're playing someone like Josh Leivo. With the Leafs early explosion in offense, those two combine for 1.4 pts/game. JVR and Bozak had 1.2 pts/game last season. Yes there has been additions, but there has been subtractions as well. Since 2009, John Tavares has recorded 643 giveaways. 75 more then Bozak, JVR, and Komarov combined. Tavares isn't getting treated like Jake Gardiner because he's new. We don't have years of accumulated memories of him messing up either.

It's early right now so the opportunity has to fall on the players in the room.

That being said, if I was to say what I think is missing, (not just from the start of this season but going back to last), we need 2 top 9 forwards capable of playing heavy and 1 top 4 D.

This team must be able to cycle along with the rush. We need to be able to dump and chase in addition to coming with speed through the middle. When our skilled forwards (Marner,Nylander) run out of options in the zone, we must be able to throw it around the net and win the battle to maintain zone time. We can't be one and done.

 

[ULF_55]

Then watch a game. (edit- I mean the games we played like a snooze fest and the other team played like a NHL team for once).

It's same thing every shift.

Matthews smothered.

Then the rest is like basketball when you leave a player open for a 3 pointer because you're not scared of them.

Open dudes at the 3- Marleau and Kapanen

Matthews shut down.

With Nylander you have to disperse resources. I'm not saying him and Matthews will own every shift, that would be absurd. I'm saying they'll just be their normal elite 5 on 5 line because the dynamics work better.

If you don't believe that then your opinion is confusing to me because their 5 on 5 stats is public for everyone to see.

I think Kapanen is similar to Nylander, but is straight ahead faster, Nylander I think has better mobility, and Nylander can straight out beat keepers with his shot. Kapanen can be a little more physical, but I think Nylander could be more effective defensively as a center. I think Nylander can makes space for himself better than speed based Kapanen.

IMO Nylander is a step above, and that makes it more difficult to contain a Matthews-Nylander combination at even strength.

 

[ToneDog]

Then watch a game. (edit- I mean the games we played like a snooze fest and the other team played like a NHL team for once).

It's same thing every shift.

Matthews smothered.

Then the rest is like basketball when you leave a player open for a 3 pointer because you're not scared of them.

Open dudes at the 3- Marleau and Kapanen

Matthews shut down.

With Nylander you have to disperse resources. I'm not saying him and Matthews will own every shift, that would be absurd. I'm saying they'll just be their normal elite 5 on 5 line because the dynamics work better.

If you don't believe that then your opinion is confusing to me because their 5 on 5 stats is public for everyone to see.

Willie helps but he does not change the outcome of those two losses. Sorry, we saw what Willie is against the Bruins. Until he changes his game, he is not a game changer in my mind.

 

[Trapper]

I think Kapanen is similar to Nylander, but is straight ahead faster, Nylander I think has better mobility, and Nylander can straight out beat keepers with his shot. Kapanen can be a little more physical, but I think Nylander could be more effective defensively as a center. I think Nylander can makes space for himself better than speed based Kapanen.

IMO Nylander is a step above, and that makes it more difficult to contain a Matthews-Nylander combination at even strength.

How often do you see Kapanen skate with the puck at length gaining the zone and holding on to it until players are in postion? Very rarely.
Kapanen is a good complimentary winger if he plays a north/south game and uses his speed to disrupt and get in on the fore-check. His skill allows him to be dangerous as well to score goals. Offensively he is more gifted than Hyman but Hyman does it every shift/game. Kapanen needs to do this as well.

Nylander is much different IMO as he is an east/west player with the ability to gain the zone and get everyone in a prime position. Nylander is not going to play the way Babs wants Kapanen/Hyman to play.

 

[Havoc]

Willie helps but he does not change the outcome of those two losses. Sorry, we saw what Willie is against the Bruins. Until he changes his game, he is not a game changer in my mind.

This also makes no sense to me because Matthews was a no-show against the Bruins.

If you are going to stand by your opinion then you should hold strong that Matthews is over rated??

Otherwise your opinion on Nylander is not very persuasive. Close to zero in terms of persuasion value.

You don't think Willy helps a 1-0 game?

Even if Nylander doesn't get on the score sheet, he still opens up more looks for Matthews which is the entire point of my post. The whole dynamics change.

Again, they weren't just a good or decent 5 on 5 line, they were elite.

 

[ULF_55]

Willie helps but he does not change the outcome of those two losses. Sorry, we saw what Willie is against the Bruins. Until he changes his game, he is not a game changer in my mind.

If we're evaluating based on the Bruins series what does that say about Matthews?

 

[ToneDog]

This also makes no sense to me because Matthews was a no-show against the Bruins.

If you are going to stand by your opinion then you should hold strong that Matthews is over rated??

Otherwise your opinion on Nylander is not very persuasive. Close to zero in terms of persuasion value.

You don't think Willy helps a 1-0 game?

Even if Nylander doesn't get on the score sheet, he still opens up more looks for Matthews which is the entire point of my post. The whole dynamics change.

Again, they weren't just a good or decent 5 on 5 line, they were elite.

Matthews may not have been 100%. Even if he was 100%, I like his chances of bouncing back over Nylander's. Matthews has proven to be a game changer and hence why he slots with Eichel, Tavares and some say McDavid while Nylander slots with Ehlers.

 

[Trapper]

If we're evaluating based on the Bruins series what does that say about Matthews?

It tells me we need more Hyman.
Each line needs a whisky chaser.
Matthews needs a skilled heavy player on his line (because Bergeron/Marchand will play down low) and Kadri needs his Komarov back. Kadri is a tag team. He needs a little crazy in his game because passive Kadri is too passive.

 

[ULF_55]

It tells me we need more Hyman.
Each line needs a whisky chaser.
Matthews needs a skilled heavy player on his line (because Bergeron/Marchand will play down low) and Kadri needs his Komarov back. Kadri is a tag team. He needs a little crazy in his game because passive Kadri is too passive.

Other than Grundstrom who?

Scouting should address things.