Are the Leafs built to compete and win?

[ToneDog]

The Pens were able to dominate down low and on the walls when required.
They were also able to fore-check and maintain pressure beyond the 1 and done.
They also had goaltending that was posting playoff save percentages of .920 +.

The support staff needs to be able to cycle and fore-check when you can't rush all the time.

Sounds like we are going to see more of the same against the Jets this week. Unfortunately it might be of a higher magnitude.

 

[thewave]

So this is where guys like Hyman, Brown, Kapanen, Kadri, Johnsson can step up and show their value to the team it's their job to grind, play a board game and create space for the more skilled guys.

Hockey is a game about time and space, the bad teams give you time and space and the good teams make time and space. Right now we are not an elite team, we have elite talent but not an elite team. Until we learn how to play the game more than just one way, teams will continue to play one way against us.

They do, against flimsy teams. Then against big contenders it becomes laughable and we need to adjust. The Boston series is a good example. We could just tweak to play to our strengths a bit but that requires work and a change. Babcock doesn't do that but firing Smith may.

 

[Nineteen67]

Matthews needs a skilled winger with size (or rather someone who can use his body consistently) and Kadri needs a controlled loose canon winger. While Komarov the player might have degraded, Komarov the person/linemate is missed.

Absolutely. They need find another Komarov

 

[81Leafs50]

Leafs literally scared the NHL through their first 6 games. Leafs games got a lot of play and discussion over the first 2 weeks of the NHL season. The replays were everywhere and I think that NHL teams are really buckling down when the play the Leafs so that they dont get embarrassed.

Leafs have to fight through that right now. Leafs are going to get the best defensive effort of every team, every night. SO Babcock is right. They only way to get through it is with WORK ETHIC. Leafs have to out work the opposition to score.

 

[Trapper]

Sounds like we are going to see more of the same against the Jets this week. Unfortunately it might be of a higher magnitude.

The regular season is the time to address your weak points (not ignore them).
Because you get 82 chances. So don't be afraid to try some things or look at trades.
You don't have to roll out the exact same thing over and over and make no moves to improve.

You might only get 4-7 in the playoffs.

From what I see so far:

LW...Matthews...RW (1 PWF and 1 Kapanen/Nylander) Someone desperately needs to take half the punishment off Matthews down low.
Hyman...Tavares...Marner (no need to change)
Marleau...Kadri...(Komarov type)
Goat and Leivo have actually been good thus far.
Brown, Lindholm, Ennis are guys that rotate through the 4th line or up higher in case of injury. The way Johnsson is playing puts him in this group as well for now.

Rielly...(Top 4 D) How many years have we been looking for a Rielly partner?
Gardiner...Zaitsev (not my ideal setup as these 2 can still go WTF at times unfortunately)
Dermott...Hainsey/Oz

Andersen

So basically that's 2 heavier wingers that can play on the wall and contribute offense + D.
One top 4 D.

 

[ACC1224]

What does this have to do with "real fans"?

 

[member 147413]

It’s 2 games, Button is an idiot.

 

[Mess]

The analyst Craig Buttons comments following last nights debacle against St Louis , combined with other expert insights have made for some introspective thoughts:

His summary of the game was that “the Leafs were beaten to the puck all night long, they lost the physical battles on the boards-the reason there was no room out there was because they couldn’t create any.

The “expert insight” heard elsewhere was that the word was out in the league on how to play the Leafs; no penalties, clog the middle, force them to the boards, be physical”. He also opined that the Leafs lacked the colourful character(s) that could inject needed energy when needed (like a Bob Kelly could do with the Flyers years ago)

Is the numbing trap that St Louis threw on us a harbinger of things to come? Are we going to be watching many such games where we can never seem to muster any sustained possession? Are we doomed to “dump and chase”, forced on us by our opponents, with players not suited for that type of game? Is Shanahan’s template of clean quick talent fatally flawed, good in “loosely, goosey early October only? Should every talented tandem, be it Matthews/Kapanen or Tavares/Marner, should each line have the beefy large winger for those board battles? Should we sacrifice some defensive finesse and puck handling for a few Josh Manson types that will punish enemy forwards that get too close?

What say you? I hope you are a real fan, that you know they are trying their best, that you will tough it out through thick and thin.

This recent outcome is coming as no surprise really. I agreed with Button yesterday and many others have stated similar opinions that Leafs team composition and player personnel is ill-equipped to go to battle nightly. Sadly I expect many more nights like the ones we saw this last weekend.

Dubas is still young and will learn that you can't simply dress players better designed for figure skating and expect to win hockey games consistently, even if skating has become more prominent in today's game. IMO

You need all sorts of players because it would be too predictable how easy it would be to create a game plan to disrupt the rush, take away the PP and play them big, strong and physical and you will control the game & possession clock.

Leafs don't have a lot of push back on the roster nor do they have energy players that will draw the team into a battle, and therefor neither have the will nor the desire to engage physically to win puck battles through strength. Why do people think Babcock loves Zach Hyman so much, as he is one of the few consistent players at his disposal willing to battle and compete every shift?.

This is only the regular season, everything on every level notches up when the playoffs begin.

 

[Bluelines]

They do, against flimsy teams. Then against big contenders it becomes laughable and we need to adjust. The Boston series is a good example. We could just tweak to play to our strengths a bit but that requires work and a change. Babcock doesn't do that but firing Smith may.

Boston series is a great example but they also beat us with skill.

Not that you want your elite skilled players playing a punch face game but I have seen coaches like Burns and Quinn send out their team in the first 5 minutes to do nothing but dump the puck against the boards and then pound the snot out of the other team against the boards to soften them up, it worked 30 years ago and physical intimidation works today. So to those of you that told me in the preseason that speed and skill is all the intimidation that the Leafs need, well, there are 3 loses as a result of teams playing the same style that seems to debunk the theory that speed and skill alone will bring this franchise to the promised land. We do need some 4th line defensive ( and bottom pair dmen) specialist that also specialize in physical board play,

 

[Bluelines]

What does this have to do with "real fans"?

Real Fans agree with the OP opinion I guess?

 

[Maplebeasts]

Yes they are. You only need to score more goals than your opponent to win, something they were among the elite in last year and will surely surpass this season.

 

[SprDaVE]

Groooooooan

 

[Stephen]

I never understood why the counter by Babs to clogging the neutral zone is to dump and chase. There are so many stats that support that controlled zone entries (either skating it in or skating with short passes to gain skating momentum in to the zone) generate far more chances on average and we have a multitude of players (and an even better one when Willy comes back) that can skate the puck in, but Babcock doesn't do it.

Yeah, it's weird when you think about his dump and chase approach today when his own Detroit Red Wings of the late 2000s were so effective at kicking the puck back to the D, stretching out the opposition forecheck and then picking apart all the open seams and lanes. To beat the trap you need more precision and control if you have skill, not to join the chaos by dumping and chasing with relatively smaller bodies and players who don't grind well.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Great thread. Lots of interesting ideas. Button explains all the problems but what about the solutions. I think our breakout contributes to the clog. Any fast and heavy team can play same game against us and it works. Take our centres out of the game and force our defence to go for stretch passes to wingers. It just does not work that way in reality. I hope we can figure out a better way to handle it. It is starting to become easy for certain teams to play us. Wingers down low. Force their centre to help out on the wall with winger and then a short pass to C starts to work again. KISS.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

I’d love to see these lines against the jets:

Kadri - Matthews - Kapanen
Hyman - Tavares - Marner
Marleau - Lindholm - Brown
Johnsson - Gauthier - Lievo

 

[LeafFever]

I really hate these negative threads after 2 poor games. This is a supremely talented team that's going to kick-butt this season.

 

[Hunter368]

This recent outcome is coming as no surprise really. I agreed with Button yesterday and many others have stated similar opinions that Leafs team composition and player personnel is ill-equipped to go to battle nightly. Sadly I expect many more nights like the ones we saw this last weekend.

Dubas is still young and will learn that you can't simply dress players better designed for figure skating and expect to win hockey games consistently, even if skating has become more prominent in today's game. IMO

You need all sorts of players because it would be too predictable how easy it would be to create a game plan to disrupt the rush, take away the PP and play them big, strong and physical and you will control the game & possession clock.

Leafs don't have a lot of push back on the roster nor do they have energy players that will draw the team into a battle, and therefor neither have the will nor the desire to engage physically to win puck battles through strength. Why do people think Babcock loves Zach Hyman so much, as he is one of the few consistent players at his disposal willing to battle and compete every shift?.

This is only the regular season, everything on every level notches up when the playoffs begin.

Mess,

I agree with many of your Leaf posts and I’m not saying your wrong here....but I think it might be too early to make this statement. I want to hold off making this statement until after 20+ games.

 

[stickty111]

This recent outcome is coming as no surprise really. I dont agree with Button yand many others have stated similar opinions that Leafs team composition and player personnel is well equipped to go to battle nightly. Happly I expect very few nights like the ones we saw this last weekend.

Dubas is still young and has learn that you can't simply dress players better designed for strong man competitions and expect to win hockey games consistently, ever since skating has become more prominent in today's game. Skill and small skate circles around size.

You need good players because it's not easy to disrupt the rush, take away the PP, the other team might play bigger stronger players, but those players will be trying to catch up to the other team as they are too slow. Hard to play them physical when your always behind them.

Leafs have a lot of push back on the roster and they have energy players that will draw the team into a battle, and therefor have the will plus the desire to engage physically to win puck battles through strength. Why do people think Babcock loves Zach Hyman so much, as he is one of the many consistent players at his disposal willing to battle and compete every shift?.

This is only the regular season, everything on every level notches up when the playoffs begin.

 

[stickty111]

This recent outcome is coming as no surprise really. I agreed with Button yesterday and many others have stated similar opinions that Leafs team composition and player personnel is ill-equipped to go to battle nightly. Sadly I expect many more nights like the ones we saw this last weekend.

Dubas is still young and will learn that you can't simply dress players better designed for figure skating and expect to win hockey games consistently, even if skating has become more prominent in today's game. IMO

You need all sorts of players because it would be too predictable how easy it would be to create a game plan to disrupt the rush, take away the PP and play them big, strong and physical and you will control the game & possession clock.

Leafs don't have a lot of push back on the roster nor do they have energy players that will draw the team into a battle, and therefor neither have the will nor the desire to engage physically to win puck battles through strength. Why do people think Babcock loves Zach Hyman so much, as he is one of the few consistent players at his disposal willing to battle and compete every shift?.

This is only the regular season, everything on every level notches up when the playoffs begin.

This recent outcome is coming as no surprise really. I dont agree with Button yand many others have stated similar opinions that Leafs team composition and player personnel is well equipped to go to battle nightly. Happly I expect very few nights like the ones we saw this last weekend.

Dubas is still young and has learn that you can't simply dress players better designed for strong man competitions and expect to win hockey games consistently, ever since skating has become more prominent in today's game. Skill and small skate circles around size.

You need good players because it's not easy to disrupt the rush, take away the PP, the other team might play bigger stronger players, but those players will be trying to catch up to the other team as they are too slow. Hard to play them physical when your always behind them.

Leafs have a lot of push back on the roster and they have energy players that will draw the team into a battle, and therefor have the will plus the desire to engage physically to win puck battles through strength. Why do people think Babcock loves Zach Hyman so much, as he is one of the many consistent players at his disposal willing to battle and compete every shift?.

This is only the regular season, everything on every level notches up when the playoffs begin.

 

[LeafFever]

This recent outcome is coming as no surprise really. I dont agree with Button yand many others have stated similar opinions that Leafs team composition and player personnel is well equipped to go to battle nightly. Happly I expect very few nights like the ones we saw this last weekend.

Dubas is still young and has learn that you can't simply dress players better designed for strong man competitions and expect to win hockey games consistently, ever since skating has become more prominent in today's game. Skill and small skate circles around size.

You need good players because it's not easy to disrupt the rush, take away the PP, the other team might play bigger stronger players, but those players will be trying to catch up to the other team as they are too slow. Hard to play them physical when your always behind them.

Leafs have a lot of push back on the roster and they have energy players that will draw the team into a battle, and therefor have the will plus the desire to engage physically to win puck battles through strength. Why do people think Babcock loves Zach Hyman so much, as he is one of the many consistent players at his disposal willing to battle and compete every shift?.

This is only the regular season, everything on every level notches up when the playoffs begin.

He seems to already understand that more than Lou did.

 

[PromisedLand]

First, the question is if Leafs are not built to play that "heavy" game then why is the coaching staff insisting leafs play that way?

Second,
my memory is not as good as it used to be. If anyone remembers the "youth movement with the blackhawks"; can they chime in? Did the hawks play the grinding game with their youth? or did they make short passes, gaining the zone with possession and making skilled plays.
?

 

[Leafling]

Kadri has 7 hits this season. Seven.

I don't like basing the game on stats alone sorry. From what i saw his physicality has been down this season. He was most physical against the pens and blues tbh, the games we lost. So i ain't to worried about him.

But what i am implying is that guys like hyman, leivo, brown, AJ need to take up that role too. We rightfully traded komarov and Martin, but others need to step up to make up the level of grit we lost.

 

[Menzinger]

The idea that there’s only a single style of overly gritty playoff hockey which the only way to win doesn’t really hold up to much scrutiny. The Pens, Tampa (remember they almost swept the big bad bruins last year), and Hawks when they were at their prime never really played that way.

 

[Mr Hockey]

First, the question is if Leafs are not built to play that "heavy" game then why is the coaching staff insisting leafs play that way?

Second,
my memory is not as good as it used to be. If anyone remembers the "youth movement with the blackhawks"; can they chime in? Did the hawks play the grinding game with their youth? or did they make short passes, gaining the zone with possession and making skilled plays.
?

The neutral zone trap, teams are using that on the leafs and stopping them from carrying the puck into the d'zone. Leafs have to dump and chase and get the puck back down low. This is why Babs has Hyman, Brown, Marleau in the top 9.

The greatest grinder/corner man of all time is #87 ...

 

[Kamiccolo]

Button is a notorious Leaf hater. I don't take any of his opinions seriously nor do I even bother listening to him.