Are the Flames a serious Cup threat?

[Jimbo57]

[mod]
I could care less if you don't agree with me, I'll just take my facts and statistics home with me and use them in a debate that's not banging my head against a wall.

It's not my job to convince you that they're a contender; but it's certainly fun to poke holes in arguments like people saying their bottom 6 is sub-par (that's the original argument you had here, in case you forgot thinking about 1994 or something). Enjoy your time pal. There's a Johnny hockey thread up if you need to make some more hot takes, or there's a Leafs vs Nucks one up, I'm sure you can get your hands dirty in there.

why you so mad bro? facts and statistics like "Hathaway is an elite 4th liner" and Dube once was an elite scorer in junior (as if that is a unique trait for a bottom 6 player in the NHL) lol. have fun with those genius insights. I remember flames fans puffing their chest in the first half of last year too....that turned out well...lol.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Now you're just picking and choosing stats. What qualifies as "like 12 players at a half a point per game clip"? The only thing that's really separating Calgary from Tampa there is that Tampa's young players haven't played a full season. Of those .5 PPG players, I see 3 that have played 26 games or less.

Calgary also has multiple players at just under .5 PPG. Hanifin scoring 19 points in 41 games vs. Stralman having 12 in 23 is not going to be the difference maker.

And once again you're taking by far the best team in the league. No one is stating that Tampa isn't the clear cup favorite. I do think Calgary is in there with the next tier of teams, that consists of about 5 teams that could win it all. If Calgary does falter, it will likely be due to goaltending, not depth issues.

Even if you took out those three, you're still looking at nine guys compared to six. That's still a significant difference. Winnipeg has 8 of those types of players. I think Nashville is likely on a similar level to Calgary where I wouldn't consider them serious threats at this point but they have a stronger track record in the past. I think Winnipeg is the favorite in the West right now. I think depth matchups can often be the difference in winning and losing a playoff series and Calgary's depth has some strengths but they certainly have weaknesses that certain teams can exploit.

I think the past few days of meaningless comments over a ****ing hit was enough to know what I’m gonna get from you.

Then you are admitting to being ignorant because I have a lengthy track record of opinions on a plethora of different subjects. You may agree or disagree as you like but using that one thread to think you know anything about me is ignorant and arrogant on your part. You don't know squat.

 

[blankall]

why you so mad bro? facts and statistics like "Hathaway is an elite 4th liner" and Dube once was an elite scorer in junior (as if that is a unique trait for a bottom 6 player in the NHL) lol. have fun with those genius insights. I remember flames fans puffing their chest in the first half of last year too....that turned out well...lol.

Every team has players like Dube and Hathaway on their 4th line. Dube is also doing fine. In 23 games he has 5 points while averaging less than 10 minutes of playing time per night.

You arguing that the Flames have no hope in the playoffs because some other teams 4th line player scores at a marginally higher rate than Dube is just weird.

 

[newfy]

I think the Flames could use a second line scoring option. I think it was supposed to be Neal this off season but hes just off so far this year. If he turns it on, look out. I just think if Tkachuk and Backlund had a legit offensively creative player instead of Bennett right now, the team could be scary. Different players but throw Nyquist in Bennetts wing spot post dead line and that line looks even better. Then Bennett is there to be bumped up from the third line if someone is playing poorly or he can be let loose on a teams defense on the forecheck in a playoff series.

Theyre not the well rounded team that Tampa Bay is but if they added one more top 6 forward I dont know how anyone could argue against them.

Goaltending is a question mark sure, but so far has been great from Rittich.

Their D is stacked and one of the best in the league (~top 3)

Top line is one of the best in the league and could go toe to toe with any line in a 7 game series.

The second line is really good. Tkachuk and Backlund are a great two way combo that does a bit of everything and scores. Tkachuk is one of the best second line players in the league. Add another scoring threat to this line and watch the production increase.

Bottom 6 has a good balance of physicality and good PKers. Theyre nothing crazy but theyre at least average and wont hold the team back.

Obviously theyre clicking right now as well and in third place overall and first in the west. How can you say theyre not a contender at this point with a straight face?

 

[Breakers]

Not with the goaltending they have.

 

[FlamerForLife]

There you have it. In my mind, yes they should be considered a contender. I suppose a better stat may be wins against the top 8 in the east and top 8 in the west, but whatever.

Against the playoff teams in the west:
8-5-1
2-0-0 vs. WPG
1-1-0 vs. VGK
1-1-0 vs. SJ
2-1-0 vs. NSH
0-1-1 vs. DAL
2-0-0 vs. COL
0-1-0 vs. ANA

Against the playoff teams in the east:
4-3-2
0-0-1 vs. TB
1-0-0 vs. TOR
0-0-1 vs. WSH
0-1-0 vs. PIT
1-0-0 vs. CBJ
1-0-0 vs. BOS
1-0-0 vs. BUF
0-2-0 vs. MTL

 

[blankall]

Even if you took out those three, you're still looking at nine guys compared to six. That's still a significant difference. Winnipeg has 8 of those types of players. I think Nashville is likely on a similar level to Calgary where I wouldn't consider them serious threats at this point but they have a stronger track record in the past. I think Winnipeg is the favorite in the West right now. I think depth matchups can often be the difference in winning and losing a playoff series and Calgary's depth has some strengths but they certainly have weaknesses that certain teams can exploit.

Winnipeg has 8 .5 PPG vs Calgary's 6.... true...However Calgary has Jankowski, Frolik, and Hanifin who are just below .5 ppg. And Calgary's top end is significantly outscoring Winnipeg's top end. You're basically stating that since Bryan Little has scored 1 more point than Noah Hanifin, the Flames have no hope.... Meanwhile it doesn't matter that Calgary has 4 players at 47 points or higher, vs Winnipeg's 2.

Calgary is a deep offensive team.

 

[Yung Rotini]

Nashville and Winnipeg are the clear top contenders in the West, HM to San Jose, but if the Flames keep up their play from the first half of this season I find it hard to not put them in this same group.

 

[Mobiandi]

This team is still way too jittery against Pacific teams and cup contenders have to go through their own division en route to the SCF.

Until they get some playoff experience under their belt (after Frolik and Smith, I don't think a single guy has more than 15 total playoff games under their belt) and stop dropping points against division rivals, it's too soon for this label

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

I like their team. Terrific Top 6 and Solid D. They are young & hungry and if they get good goaltending they will be tough to beat in the playoffs.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Winnipeg has 8 .5 PPG vs Calgary's 6.... true...However Calgary has Jankowski, Frolik, and Hanifin who are just below .5 ppg. And Calgary's top end is significantly outscoring Winnipeg's top end. You're basically stating that since Bryan Little has scored 1 more point than Noah Hanifin, the Flames have no hope.... Meanwhile it doesn't matter that Calgary has 4 players at 47 points or higher, vs Winnipeg's 2.

Calgary is a deep offensive team.

I'm not saying that Calgary has no hope. That's a misrepresentation of my position. In a head-to-head matchup with the Jets, the Flames would be the underdog. That's not insurmountable and things change between now and May to where they can change their position or other teams can fall off. It's only the halfway point with a trade deadline that will alter team's makeups as well as injuries. Also, if you're including Jankowski, Frolik, and Hanifin then you have to include Trouba as well and probably Perreault and Tanev depending on when and how you're going to draw that line. And honestly I don't think it does matter much that Calgary has four 47 point players to Winnipeg's two. I think the Jets have a top end that is at a similar level with a better team balance to their scoring than Calgary but again things change between now and a potential WCF in May to where none of where things are now really matters. It was around this time in 2016 when the Sharks turned from an inconsistent team that was hovering in and out of a playoff spot into a team that would be one of the best two teams to finish the season and make a run to the Finals.

 

[blankall]

I'm not saying that Calgary has no hope. That's a misrepresentation of my position. In a head-to-head matchup with the Jets, the Flames would be the underdog. That's not insurmountable and things change between now and May to where they can change their position or other teams can fall off. It's only the halfway point with a trade deadline that will alter team's makeups as well as injuries. Also, if you're including Jankowski, Frolik, and Hanifin then you have to include Trouba as well and probably Perreault and Tanev depending on when and how you're going to draw that line. And honestly I don't think it does matter much that Calgary has four 47 point players to Winnipeg's two. I think the Jets have a top end that is at a similar level with a better team balance to their scoring than Calgary but again things change between now and a potential WCF in May to where none of where things are now really matters. It was around this time in 2016 when the Sharks turned from an inconsistent team that was hovering in and out of a playoff spot into a team that would be one of the best two teams to finish the season and make a run to the Finals.

The Flames have beaten the Jets twice this year. In these matchups depth was not an issue. In the first matchup Calgary got goals from Tkachuk, Dube, Ryan, Bennett, and Jankowski.

If the Flames can't take down a team like Winnipeg it will likely be due to goaltending and not depth.

 

[Duffalufagus]

very unimpressive team. i'd put vegas ahead of them.

2nd in the league in goals for and differential. Totally unimpressive!

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The Flames have beaten the Jets twice this year. In these matchups depth was not an issue. In the first matchup Calgary got goals from Tkachuk, Dube, Ryan, Bennett, and Jankowski.

If the Flames can't take down a team like Winnipeg it will likely be due to goaltending and not depth.

Those matchups don't mean anything come playoff time. Of course depth isn't an issue in random one-off meetings against a particular team that you won. Playoff series setup is a different game. One of those games was Gaudreau going off carrying them to that win. He can certainly do that come playoff time as stars can carry a team to a series victory if the other team's defense has no answer but depth can also be the difference. We just have to see how it plays out if it comes down to that.

 

[ScottishCanuck]

They're impressive. And I say that as someone who dislikes them.

They have the personnel to do it, if they get solid goaltending in the playoffs. It's such a long battle of attrition that anything could happen tbh. I wouldn't be surprised if they made a run.

 

[CraigsList]

Then you are admitting to being ignorant because I have a lengthy track record of opinions on a plethora of different subjects. You may agree or disagree as you like but using that one thread to think you know anything about me is ignorant and arrogant on your part. You don't know squat.

You’re trying to tell me, the fan that has watched every single game, that our team isn’t legit. Lol, you’re arguing that the Flames don’t stand a chance against the Jets when we’ve already shown that we are able to. We’ve actually played pretty well against them over the past couple of years. And this season isn’t any different, we’re 2-0 against them. Depth isn’t our issue.

I really could care less about your track record, what you’re showing me is ignorance at its finest and it’s showing here too in this thread.

11th in PP (good)
17th in P.K. (meh), we make up for it with the amount of SH goals we score
3rd in FO’s
5th in shots against
3rd in wins (25), 3rd in ROW because we suck at the shootout
4th in losses (least amount)
3rd in goal differential (+31)
2nd in goals for
T-10th in goals against, would have been much lower if we didn’t get blown out 9-1 by Pittsburgh.

We have a top line that can go against anyone in the league. Tkachuk, Backlund and the other passenger on the second line can go up against the best lines in the league too on a defensive standpoint. Our bottom 6 consists of Jankowski and Ryan, and Bennett who are 2-way reliable players that can PK and chip in offensively every now and then. Hell, even the “Hathaway” plug that you speak of is a great PKer. We have plenty of rookies from our AHL squad that have been called up and have chipped in. That’s what contending teams have, players that can jump in and fill a need when called upon.

Our defense consists of a Norris contending Giordano and Brodie who looks like he awoke from a 2/3 year coma. Hanifin and Hamonic have to be one of the best 2nd pairings in the league. And, rookies that currently play 3rd pairing minutes projecting to be better in the near future.

Our only issue, and one that we as Flames fans are all aware of, is goaltending. Our GM will take care of that as he is evaluating how our teams holds for the next 2 months prior to the deadline. But, the Rittich/Smith tandem isn’t bad at all and as mentioned, we’re holding our own defensively and just need average-above average goaltending right now. Hopefully by playoff time we look better with whoever we have between the pipes.

But please, @Pinkfloyd, tell me how this team that you are most certain you know of aren’t a legit contender. You’re probably just unhappy that there’s a team in your division that is not on the rise. Good luck trying to get past Vegas, Calgary, and Nashville/Winnipeg in the playoffs for another SC run if you even make it that far. If you play against us we’re going to make it your worst series to play whether you win it or not. We have the depth, the grit and the skill to go against the best and the stats listed above show that.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You’re trying to tell me, the fan that has watched every single game, that our team isn’t legit. Lol, you’re arguing that the Flames don’t stand a chance against the Jets when we’ve already shown that we are able to. We’ve actually played pretty well against them over the past couple of years. And this season isn’t any different, we’re 2-0 against them. Depth isn’t our issue.

I really could care less about your track record, what you’re showing me is ignorance at its finest and it’s showing here too in this thread.

11th in PP (good)
17th in P.K. (meh), we make up for it with the amount of SH goals we score
3rd in FO’s
5th in shots against
3rd in wins (25), 3rd in ROW because we suck at the shootout
4th in losses (least amount)
3rd in goal differential (+31)
2nd in goals for
T-10th in goals against, would have been much lower if we didn’t get blown out 9-1 by Pittsburgh.

We have a top line that can go against anyone in the league. Tkachuk, Backlund and the other passenger on the second line can go up against the best lines in the league too on a defensive standpoint. Our bottom 6 consists of Jankowski and Ryan who are 2-way reliable players that can PK and chip in offensively every now and then. We have plenty of rookies from our AHL squad that have been called up and have chipped in. That’s what contending teams have, players that can jump in and fill a need when called upon.

Our defense consists of a Norris contending Giordano and Brodie who looks like he awoke from a 2/3 year coma. Hanifin and Hamonic have to be one of the best 2nd pairings in the league. And, rookies that currently play 3rd pairing minutes projecting to be better in the near future.

Our only issue, and one that we as Flames fans are all aware of, is goaltending. Our GM will take care of that as he is evaluating how our teams holds for the next 2 months prior to the deadline. But, the Rittich/Smith tandem isn’t bad at all and as mentioned, we’re holding our own defensively and just need average-above average goaltending right now. Hopefully by playoff time we look better with whoever we have between the pipes.

But please, @Pinkfloyd, tell me how this team that you are most certain you know of aren’t a legit contender. You’re probably just unhappy that there’s a team in your division that is not on the rise. Good luck trying to get past Vegas, Calgary, and Nashville/Winnipeg in the playoffs for another SC run if you even make it that far. If you play against us we’re going to make it your worst series to play whether you win it or not. We have the depth, the grit and the skill to go against the best and the stats listed above show that.

You clearly aren't actually reading what I've said because I never said the Flames aren't legit or that they don't stand a chance against the Jets. I said they'd be underdogs and a few regular season games that go in your favor won't change that opinion because regular season matchups don't mean anything come playoff time. There's far too much that will change between now and the playoffs to worry about potential playoff matchups now. I don't think they're serious Cup contenders right now. It doesn't mean they aren't a good team.

And I know you COULDN'T care less about my track record. You made that obvious when you ignorantly let one thread where you vehemently disagree with someone sway you to such a point that you dismiss everything else. That's just plain stupid.

You can tout all the regular season numbers that you like and I'm not going to argue that they aren't a good team. That doesn't mean that they're built for the playoffs the way you need to win playoff rounds. I don't care if another team is on the rise in the division. This isn't the first time that Calgary has rose up while the Sharks were competitive and it won't be the last and they aren't the only one. Edmonton did it too. Vancouver is doing it. Arizona may start doing it soon. Those things don't mean anything come playoff time. Flames are perfectly capable of beating the Sharks if circumstances go their way just like the opposite is true. I think you think way too highly of your team and their capabilities if you think they stand out in terms of being difficult to play against. The Sharks have plenty of experience going through teams like what you think your team actually is...when they aren't. lol Calgary's a good team with some special talents in their lineup. They're not something the Sharks haven't seen many times in the playoffs. They've beaten them before and they've lost to some of them before. It's cringey that you think your team is some force to be reckoned with.

 

[Bonzo111]

sure they are, good team

 

[triggrman]

Yup.

 

[Stickpucker]

West is up for grabs so I could see them make it to get beaten by Pitts or Wash not to mention TB.

 

[Classicnamesup]

If they're still where they are at game 82, yes. I figured they would be bad this year so I'm retaining some skepticism.

 

[Duffalufagus]

Yes. Rittich is playing well, but even now he's not really capable of playing 10+ games in a row yet. Smith is still totally shaky, and every time he starts you can see how nervous the team is in front of him. Multiple losses this year have been due to sub-standard goaltending. The Flames have managed to mitigate this with all these very high scoring games, but the playoffs is another matter. You can't expect to score 5 goals a game in the playoffs. You have to be able to win those 2-1 and 3-2 grinding games that go into 2+ overtime periods.

The Flames cannot afford to give up 1 in 4 games in the playoffs due to a shaky backup and an inexperienced starter. The Flames need better goaltending. It has to be more consistent for them to win the cup.

I will give you that Rittich does not have a large body of work. But the rest of your post is not born out by the facts and is often conjecture. Explain to me how Rittich needs to be “more” consistent? Explain to me how the Flames have not shown, compared to other teams, that they cannot win close games?

You don’t play two goalies in the playoffs, so what the backup has done this year really has no purchase in terms of predicting what will happen in the playoffs.

Again, “show me” with Rittich is a fine take. I am there too. But to suggest the Flames (who are top ten in the league in goals against) need “better” goaltending is not very persuasive. They are getting solid goaltending from Rittich and have been all year.

 

[FerklundCGY]

I agree. I think they are over performing. Still a lot of hockey left but they do play in a pretty weak division.. Likely the weakest in the NHL. They have a PDO that screams regression and that is with some pretty meh goaltending which means I see them regressing even more.

That said, I think they can win a round just because of how weak their division is and they likely get to play a team from there.

"They have a PDO that screams regression"

*checks PDO*

*sees Flames rank 14th in the NHL in 5v5 PDO at 1.001 (0.001 off league average)*

 

[Foppberg]

Need goaltending. And more centre depth.

 

[Kamiccolo]

"They have a PDO that screams regression"

*checks PDO*

*sees Flames rank 14th in the NHL in 5v5 PDO at 1.001 (0.001 off league average)*

I already said that it is worse than it appears when you consider their terrible goaltending the PDO should be under 100 easily. Shows how unsustainable their play has been offensively. And your PDO number is wrong.