Prospect Info: Anyone believe Sandin is better than Lilly presently???

[JT AM da real deal]

Tampa has Cernak (21) and Sergachev (20) in its top four.

Boston has McAvoy (21) and Carlo (22) in its top four.

The idea that we have to keep our kids buried in the minors for years on end is silly - and in a cap world, it just kills you. The reality of a capworld is that you need to use those cheap young talents to fill out your roster, like all the top teams do.

We stupidly hurt ourselves last year by chaining our young talents Kappy, Johnsson, and Dermott into strict tiny-minute bottom-line roles. And them all being impact players now when they get a chance is clear proof of that. Playing them more could have easily led to winning a couple rounds last year.

We're only hurting ourselves.

Those 4 rookies are all beasts. Very big boys who play a very strong on the puck. Great size and speed. And tough cookies.
Have you watched Lilly play. Whoa. Someone breathes on him and the puck is loose in his own end.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Sandin is the real deal. I would not trade him. I think he could be an NHL #1 defender in time. So responsible defensively. And he does not get pushed off the puck. And he has great hands for really nice dishes. From camp on you could see it and he is getting better every game. I really do not care about the offense because I think he may develop that part of his game later on. But for what the Leafs need. He could help. In my view he is far superior to Marincin, Holl and Oz right now. But I would not push him up unless we got stuck with another bad injury then he would be guy the Leafs would turn to.

 

[FlyingLeafus]

Exactly. Luke Schenn comes immediately to mind. Rushed along and never will be the plater he could have been.

I'm confident and so are a lot more of us in the Leafs desire to not rush but only call up when a player is over ready.

It would be amazing to see
Lilly-Sandman as our 3rd pairing next year but I'm not going to be upset if they are not. They guaranteed will the following season. Cheap cap hits with very high upside. Just what we need then.

Luke Schenn busted because his skillset was obsolete and he wasn't good enough, nothing (or very little) to do with being rushed. If they're ready(debatable), promote them. The expansion draft also plays a factor in this particular situation.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

Neither prospect should be called up to the NHL until there is no chance our Leafs would have to expose them to the upcoming expansion draft. That, I'm sure of!

I believe if they play 9 or fewer games they they won't be exposed. I can see a late season call up if Dermott/Gardiner aren't healthy. Oz seems like a capable defender but he needs help beside him and maybe Sandin can get that shot or maybe Gardiner-Lily as our 2nd/3rd pair.

Imagine this at the end of the season next year:
Rielly-Dermott
Muzzin-Lily
Sandin-Oz

My god that actually looks like it could be competent!

 

[The Man with a Plan]

Luke Schenn busted because his skillset was obsolete and he wasn't good enough, nothing (or very little) to do with being rushed.

Yeah it made perfect sense to throw a 18 yr old D into the absolute shitshow that we were at the time. Nothing bad can come of that at all...

Burke and company screwed up making that decision. Shanny and company will not make the same mistakes.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

Sandin is the real deal. I would not trade him. I think he could be an NHL #1 defender in time. So responsible defensively. And he does not get pushed off the puck. And he has great hands for really nice dishes. From camp on you could see it and he is getting better every game. I really do not care about the offense because I think he may develop that part of his game later on. But for what the Leafs need. He could help. In my view he is far superior to Marincin, Holl and Oz right now. But I would not push him up unless we got stuck with another bad injury then he would be guy the Leafs would turn to.

By far my favourite game from training camp was the game where Babs ran the pairing of Sandin-Liljegren
They looked so fast, smooth, and smart out there together in one of their first times ever playing together.

 

[Walshy7]

Luke Schenn busted because his skillset was obsolete and he wasn't good enough, nothing (or very little) to do with being rushed.

100% agree stupid Burke truculence made him cream his pants int hat draft. BUT I thought I read somewhere the leafs told Schenn to add weight and packing weight into an already slow skater is for sure not going to help him, if that is true they did have a hand in ruining him but it wasn’t by rushing

 

[FlyingLeafus]

Yeah it made perfect sense to throw a 18 yr old D into the absolute ****show that we were at the time. Nothing bad can come of that at all...

Burke and company screwed up making that decision. Shanny and company will not make the same mistakes.

Even if they had waited to promote him, he's still a bottom pairing d man at best. We are no longer the mess we once were and the Dermott path is evidence that you don't have to hold back young dmen if they are ready.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

Even if they had waited to promote him, he's still a bottom pairing d man at best. We are no longer the mess we once were and the Dermott path is evidence that you don't have to hold back young dmen if they are ready.

It helps that their skillsets are easier to transfer to the NHL than a slower defensive dman that needs to be near perfect positionally and very physical to be great at that role like a Shea Weber. It's incredible hard. Smoother skating defensemen like Dermott, Lily, and Sandin who can make plays on a rush and through good passing are pretty easy to bring into the NHL. Skating nowadays is about 75% of the battle anyways.

 

[diceman934]

I believe next year will see just who is better as one had to come and get used to smaller ice surface as well as a vastly different game in the AHL and the other came over and played in the OHL for a season which is vastly different.

I like both right now. There is very little to choose from. But if I had to choose right now it would be Lilly. Higher offensive upside and a righty.

 

[Al14]

I believe if they play 9 or fewer games they they won't be exposed. I can see a late season call up if Dermott/Gardiner aren't healthy. Oz seems like a capable defender but he needs help beside him and maybe Sandin can get that shot or maybe Gardiner-Lily as our 2nd/3rd pair.

Imagine this at the end of the season next year:
Rielly-Dermott
Muzzin-Lily
Sandin-Oz

My god that actually looks like it could be competent!

Looks, on paper, can be deceiving. I'll wait to actually see it work out on the ice to call it competent! And, even then, our fan base likes to have their scapegoats.

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

Looks, on paper, can be deceiving. I'll wait to actually see it work out on the ice to call it competent!

I can't really imagine a world where Sandin is a downgrade to Hainsey and Lily is a downgrade to Zaitsev but sure let's see it on the ice first! I'm all for it. Maybe they'll all develop by the time the 2022 playoffs roll around

 

[jrgtml67]

Watched the marlies yesterday. Definitely defensively better, both are real good at breaking out of the zone, and I give Sandin a slight edge in offense for now

 

[2022 Stanley Cup]

Watched the marlies yesterday. Definitely defensively better, both are real good at breaking out of the zone, and I give Sandin a slight edge in offense for now

The Timashov shootout goal

 

[StuckOutHere]

The good thing here is we have both?

 

[BlueBaron]

Both have had terrific years. Liljegren was just plagued with a high ankle sprain.


Why Leaf fans always do these battles is beyond me. We have two great d-man prospects. Sandin is a two-way guy, while Liljegren is an offensive talent. They are in the same tier.

I could see both playing games for us next season.

Some guys just want to know who number 1 is so they can trade #2 on the trade boards

 

[jrgtml67]

The Timashov shootout goal

Ya kucherov-esque. Bracco looks like Marner out there, free wheels around net, hangs on to it creates space. My belief is if we don't use him in a trade he takes browns spot next year

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Sandin has been the better pro player to date. IMO

Liljegren set the bar for 18 year olds in the AHL last season. Sandin is shattering the records. Both are great prospects.

I still think Liljegren sees NHL time first due to the need on the right side, and Sandins contract can slide another year, but both are looking like really good top 4 guys in the future.

 

[ZippityDooDa]

I've read conflicting posts on Sandin's and Liljegren's skating. Do they both have skating issues or not?

Lily skates like the wind but often in the wrong areas and gets himself out of position often. Not a skating issue but rather needs to improve his IQ processing of the game, something harder to achieve than skating technique. Think another Gardiner albeit more physical though unproven and perhaps possessing a higher offensive ceiling.

Sandin has average straight ahead speed but great edges and lateral agility. He also possesses very high processing IQ in contrast to Lily but is less flashy, still making Sandin the more valuable and higher esteemed prospect.

A lot to be excited about with these two but they are by no means sure bets to carve out exceptional NHL careers. They're young and progressing well though so plenty to be positive about.

 

[TheProspector]

What Sandin has done in the AHL is outstanding. Actually pretty unprecedented.

My worry with Lilly is that consecutive injuries have just totally derailed his development. There is a lot of leverage to the growth that happens during this part of their careers, and there is evidence that if you miss out on playing a lot between 17 - 20, you never catch back up, even if you were a strong player before. Alex Nylander is an unfortunate example of this.

 

[TML1967]

Luke Schenn busted because his skillset was obsolete and he wasn't good enough, nothing (or very little) to do with being rushed. If they're ready(debatable), promote them. The expansion draft also plays a factor in this particular situation.

I disagree. If Luke had been sent back to junior like he should have been, he would have likely developed better offensively and had more time to wprlbom his skating.

Even if he just improved his skating from his rookie season, he would have been a top 4 guy. Team mismanaged and told him to add size, which made him slower

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

100% agree stupid Burke truculence made him cream his pants int hat draft. BUT I thought I read somewhere the leafs told Schenn to add weight and packing weight into an already slow skater is for sure not going to help him, if that is true they did have a hand in ruining him but it wasn’t by rushing

As much as I hate Burke, Fletcher was in charge at the time and traded up for and picked Schenn.

 

[moon111]

Is Keefe better than Babcock?

Is Babcock better then Leaf fans?

 

[Nooodles]

Is Babcock better then Leaf fans?

We have some real gud fans, I bet a lot of them are 6'4 every day, and feed their families.
So tough question.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Both are great prospects.
Probably about neck and neck. One seems to jump ahead then the other does.
Either way, seems like we have some back end help on the horizon.