Prospect Info: Anyone believe Sandin is better than Lilly presently???

[Walshy7]

As much as I hate Burke, Fletcher was in charge at the time and traded up for and picked Schenn.

oh shit you are right, my bad.

well still, f*** burke

 

[Walshy7]

they make a great pairing together which is awesome, not hard to imagine our future 2nd pairing being Sandin-Liljegren. They compliment each other well too, sandin being the more steady 2way d and Liljegren being the freewheeling offensive guy (at least that's how he was sold during the draft doesn't seem to be too freewheeling to me)

 

[diceman934]

oh **** you are right, my bad.

well still, **** burke

You were right it was a Burke Draft. Burke was coming to the Leafs and he no doubt had a big impact on the draft as he was not yet able to sign officially he was giving imput. Hell he always acted like a proud Dad when talking about Schenn.

People on here like to jump on Schenn. He was told to add weight and the Leafs rushed him 100%. He was presented as our future captain etc. He has had a decent career but it would have been much better had he had better coaching early on as well as been put on a fitness plan rather then a weight lifters plan.

 

[ULF_55]

You were right it was a Burke Draft. Burke was coming to the Leafs and he no doubt had a big impact on the draft as he was not yet able to sign officially he was giving imput. Hell he always acted like a proud Dad when talking about Schenn.

People on here like to jump on Schenn. He was told to add weight and the Leafs rushed him 100%. He was presented as our future captain etc. He has had a decent career but it would have been much better had he had better coaching early on as well as been put on a fitness plan rather then a weight lifters plan.

I thought he should spend time in the minors, but that went over like a lead balloon here!
I watched him one year in the World's and he looked completely overwhelmed by the big ice and space there.
You know Leafs draft pick, and another lead foot, Luke Richardson played over 1400 games?

Wish I got to watch Sandin and Liljegren play, but I think people want Liljegren to be better.

So with his lack of offense, what is he becoming? What does he look like he's going to be, a hybrid offensive/defensive d-man?

Sandin is a .5 PPG player this year, Liljegren .35 PPG, I know just stats watching but that what points per game is a statistic.

Statistically Liljegren is a .37 PPG in his AHL career.

Points do not determine how effective a defender is, so if Liljegren isn't a point producer, that doesn't preclude him from being a very good player.

Does he should untapped offensive potential, and if so what is the thought of what is stifling that?

 

[BlueForever75]

I don't think its a question of who is better. I too believe they have the making of a perfect pairing as early as next season if Babcock wants. Putting them as the 3rd pairing cant be any worse then Marincin and Oz right now. Let Gardiner walk and trade Zaitsev.

Reilly-(Acquisition)
Muzzin-Dermott
Sandin-Llijegren

 

[diceman934]

I thought he should spend time in the minors, but that went over like a lead balloon here!
I watched him one year in the World's and he looked completely overwhelmed by the big ice and space there.
You know Leafs draft pick, and another lead foot, Luke Richardson played over 1400 games?

I wanted him to go back to Jr for at least another year. The biggest difference in his career was the put on weight request.

Yes he would have looked terrible on big ice. Luke Richardson was not as heavy but his feet were similar that for sure. Different game back then. You could get away with having a slower D man who was physical.

 

[Durrr]

I kind of thought we all know Lilly is darn good. Sandin seems to get all the good articles about his play and not Lilly.

They could likely come into camp next season and be our third pairing together. Its great Sandin is equally as good already.

Have you met Babcock?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

As a former dman who goes to virtually every Marlie game past 3 years (even some away games in upper state NY) what I really like about Sandin is his defensive play. He is one of those guys that when he is on the ice you feel relaxed in your own end. He is not mistake free, no one is, but he is virtually mistake free. He makes all the simple plays correctly. He does not panic. He does not get knocked off the puck on the forecheck. His edge work and balance are incredible-he is rarely on his *ss. He picks up his man. He has good hands. He gets to puck very quickly so gives himself more time to make the simple passes. His reads are good. He moves puck to safe spots. He is not a big hitter but he engages and knows how to ride someone off puck and use his body to transition the puck. His shot is average at best. For a kid this young in his first AHL season to be doing this is incredible. This is why everyone around team is excited. There is a lot to look forward to for Leaf fans.

I think Lilly is a little faster straight line speed but he is not as balanced and his edge work is not as good. This is why he is often on his butt in his own end on the fore check. He takes much more risk in his skate outs and pass outs. So he has more turn overs. His hands are very good. He does not finish as you would expect for some reason but I think that will come with more game reps. But I think he has more offensive skills right now. What I worry about most is his play in his own end. He is always thinking offense first. I would prefer he think the game as a defender first. To me that is biggest difference between the 2 of them. He will take extra risks to get puck and put himself in positions where attacking team gets grade A chances against us. Sometimes he makes a great play too and can launch the attack with an extra man. You take the good with the bad on the risk taking.

Overall I guess it comes down to what kind of defense man do you prefer? I prefer the guy I can rely on in his own end.

 

[BlueForever75]

As a former dman who goes to virtually every Marlie game past 3 years (even some away games in upper state NY) what I really like about Sandin is his defensive play. He is one of those guys that when he is on the ice you feel relaxed in your own end. He is not mistake free, no one is, but he is virtually mistake free. He makes all the simple plays correctly. He does not panic. He does not get knocked off the puck on the forecheck. His edge work and balance are incredible-he is rarely on his *ss. He picks up his man. He has good hands. He gets to puck very quickly so gives himself more time to make the simple passes. His reads are good. He moves puck to safe spots. He is not a big hitter but he engages and knows how to ride someone off puck and use his body to transition the puck. His shot is average at best. For a kid this young in his first AHL season to be doing this is incredible. This is why everyone around team is excited. There is a lot to look forward to for Leaf fans.

I think Lilly is a little faster straight line speed but he is not as balanced and his edge work is not as good. This is why he is often on his butt in his own end on the fore check. He takes much more risk in his skate outs and pass outs. So he has more turn overs. His hands are very good. He does not finish as you would expect for some reason but I think that will come with more game reps. But I think he has more offensive skills right now. What I worry about most is his play in his own end. He is always thinking offense first. I would prefer he think the game as a defender first. To me that is biggest difference between the 2 of them. He will take extra risks to get puck and put himself in positions where attacking team gets grade A chances against us. Sometimes he makes a great play too and can launch the attack with an extra man. You take the good with the bad on the risk taking.

Overall I guess it comes down to what kind of defense man do you prefer? I prefer the guy I can rely on in his own end.

Which would make them perfect partners in the future!!!

Great insight, two different games but both effective at what they do. Looking forward to the both of them solidifying our d core in the near future.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Is Keefe better than Babcock?

Is a bag of pucks better than Babcock?

 

[stickty111]

I thought he should spend time in the minors, but that went over like a lead balloon here!
I watched him one year in the World's and he looked completely overwhelmed by the big ice and space there.
You know Leafs draft pick, and another lead foot, Luke Richardson played over 1400 games?

Wish I got to watch Sandin and Liljegren play, but I think people want Liljegren to be better.

So with his lack of offense, what is he becoming? What does he look like he's going to be, a hybrid offensive/defensive d-man?

Sandin is a .5 PPG player this year, Liljegren .35 PPG, I know just stats watching but that what points per game is a statistic.

Statistically Liljegren is a .37 PPG in his AHL career.

Points do not determine how effective a defender is, so if Liljegren isn't a point producer, that doesn't preclude him from being a very good player.

Does he should untapped offensive potential, and if so what is the thought of what is stifling that?

 

[ULF_55]

As a former dman who goes to virtually every Marlie game past 3 years (even some away games in upper state NY) what I really like about Sandin is his defensive play. He is one of those guys that when he is on the ice you feel relaxed in your own end. He is not mistake free, no one is, but he is virtually mistake free. He makes all the simple plays correctly. He does not panic. He does not get knocked off the puck on the forecheck. His edge work and balance are incredible-he is rarely on his *ss. He picks up his man. He has good hands. He gets to puck very quickly so gives himself more time to make the simple passes. His reads are good. He moves puck to safe spots. He is not a big hitter but he engages and knows how to ride someone off puck and use his body to transition the puck. His shot is average at best. For a kid this young in his first AHL season to be doing this is incredible. This is why everyone around team is excited. There is a lot to look forward to for Leaf fans.

I think Lilly is a little faster straight line speed but he is not as balanced and his edge work is not as good. This is why he is often on his butt in his own end on the fore check. He takes much more risk in his skate outs and pass outs. So he has more turn overs. His hands are very good. He does not finish as you would expect for some reason but I think that will come with more game reps. But I think he has more offensive skills right now. What I worry about most is his play in his own end. He is always thinking offense first. I would prefer he think the game as a defender first. To me that is biggest difference between the 2 of them. He will take extra risks to get puck and put himself in positions where attacking team gets grade A chances against us. Sometimes he makes a great play too and can launch the attack with an extra man. You take the good with the bad on the risk taking.

Overall I guess it comes down to what kind of defense man do you prefer? I prefer the guy I can rely on in his own end.

The bolded above, IMO, is a major problem with the current Leafs' defenders. I call it a lack of urgency to the puck. Even Rielly coasts back at times to gather the puck, giving the forecheckers time to pressure him.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

I personally think Sandin will be a #2 and lily will be #4 still very early though

 

[BlueForever75]

I personally think Sandin will be a #2 and lily will be #4 still very early though

Tough for Sandin to be a #2 when we have a #1 in Reilly on the left side.

In future I can see Reilly#1-Acquisition, Sandin#3-Llijegren#4, Dermott#5-Rasanen#6

 

[leafsfan2point0]

Tough for Sandin to be a #2 when we have a #1 in Reilly on the left side.

In future I can see Reilly#1-Acquisition, Sandin#3-Llijegren#4, Dermott#5-Rasanen#6

I can see Dermott being switched to rhd next season if hainsey isnt retained and within a few years our top 4 will look something like

Rielly #1 - Dermott #3
Sandin #2 - Lilegren #4

You never know how its going to play out though

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It is way too early to be predicting where someone is going to fit 2-4 years down the road. There is a big step between AHL and NHL. And then at NHL level there are many more adjustments to see how a guy will develop. Our defense is just so bad on the defensive side that all of us want kids to jump up and help right away. And maybe someone will but it is a huge risk and the down side can be very bad. I think we likely see 1 or 2 next year because of our CAP. Lets hope for the best.

 

[sxvnert]

Lilly was always touted as the high risk/high reward type pick.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

As a former dman who goes to virtually every Marlie game past 3 years (even some away games in upper state NY) what I really like about Sandin is his defensive play. He is one of those guys that when he is on the ice you feel relaxed in your own end. He is not mistake free, no one is, but he is virtually mistake free. He makes all the simple plays correctly. He does not panic. He does not get knocked off the puck on the forecheck. His edge work and balance are incredible-he is rarely on his *ss. He picks up his man. He has good hands. He gets to puck very quickly so gives himself more time to make the simple passes. His reads are good. He moves puck to safe spots. He is not a big hitter but he engages and knows how to ride someone off puck and use his body to transition the puck. His shot is average at best. For a kid this young in his first AHL season to be doing this is incredible. This is why everyone around team is excited. There is a lot to look forward to for Leaf fans.

I think Lilly is a little faster straight line speed but he is not as balanced and his edge work is not as good. This is why he is often on his butt in his own end on the fore check. He takes much more risk in his skate outs and pass outs. So he has more turn overs. His hands are very good. He does not finish as you would expect for some reason but I think that will come with more game reps. But I think he has more offensive skills right now. What I worry about most is his play in his own end. He is always thinking offense first. I would prefer he think the game as a defender first. To me that is biggest difference between the 2 of them. He will take extra risks to get puck and put himself in positions where attacking team gets grade A chances against us. Sometimes he makes a great play too and can launch the attack with an extra man. You take the good with the bad on the risk taking.

Overall I guess it comes down to what kind of defense man do you prefer? I prefer the guy I can rely on in his own end.

Awesome thanks gor the preview )

 

[Teeder Keon]

I think Sandman looks to be a more mature , well rounded , smarter player at this time then Lilly

 

[CabanaBoy5]

In the games I’ve watched, Sandin has stood out with his composure and puck movement.

 

[jaric1862]

Who do you guys think has a better chance of cracking the lineup next year out of training camp between these two?

 

[zeke]

There's really no reason not to give them both a look right now.

 

[horner]

I don't think its a question of who is better. I too believe they have the making of a perfect pairing as early as next season if Babcock wants. Putting them as the 3rd pairing cant be any worse then Marincin and Oz right now. Let Gardiner walk and trade Zaitsev.

Reilly-(Acquisition)
Muzzin-Dermott
Sandin-Llijegren

Thats my thinking as well.

 

[jaric1862]

I think that in the off season theyll acquire a guy like Pysyk (#4 defensive guy, making 2-3 million)

If Liljergren makes the jump:

Rielly-Pysyk type
Muzzin-Zaitsev
Dermott-Liljergren

or if Sandin makes it

Rielly-Dermott
Muzzin-Zaitsev
Sandin-Pysyk type

 

[Joey Hoser]

Does he should untapped offensive potential, and if so what is the thought of what is stifling that?

Being a teenager in the AHL, most obviously.

If he was Canadian, he's still be in junior and he'd probably be wrecking the place.

Like, where do you even get the notion that these numbers represent a "stifled" offense? There's basically no sample body of teenage AHL defensemen to draw from, and the examples that do exist are all uncommon circumstances. How do you know .37ppg isn't really good for someone in his position? Dermott put up similar numbers in his rookie year, but was 20 years old already.