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Player Discussion Antoine Roussel

Intangibos

Intangibos

High-End Intangibos
Apr 5, 2010
7,807
3,370
Burnaby
MS said:
Horvat is a 'good' player and obviously the team was worse when he got hurt.

But he is ridiculously, shockingly overrated in this market and his year last year was very disappointing.

He's flatlined as a player since breaking out in the 2nd half of the 15-16 season and his bad habits are getting concerning. He might be a character guy and hard worker off the ice, but on it he's a soft player. Plays the game like a stereotypical European show pony. Dangerous in transition where he loves to be a Johnny Dangles but has nothing more to his game at this point.

This is a guy who is a tank, built like Jarome Iginla and with a similar skillset. He should be a horse in the tough areas of the ice and be using his size and strength to overwhelm defenders and create dirty goals from his work in the trenches. But he doesn't engage and stands around not using that skillset. Nobody is asking him to be Brendan Shanahan, but throwing fewer hits than Daniel Sedin and Markus Granlund is just embarrassing for a player of his ability and speaks to that lack of engagement.

Defensively he's ... average, I guess, and on the PK he's been a disaster and looks clueless there.

He got promoted to the top PP unit last year and scored more points because of it, but his ES game has been mired in a rut for awhile now. Plenty of excitement on the rush adding up to not much because he can't produce in contained situations which should be his strength.

I'm a huge believer in this player and feel he should be a 35-35-70 guy at this level. But if he keeps going the way he's going, he's going to underachieve and never reach the level he should. He needs to have his bad habits corrected and have high standards set for him by the organization, but instead it just seems like everyone is going to celebrate how great he is and hand the captaincy to him when he's an extremely flawed one-dimensional player.

This isn't to say he was 'bad'. On this awful team he was still one of the best players last year by default. But if this team is ever going to turn a corner he needs to be a hell of a lot better than this. And yeah, Sutter killing it from his incredibly tough minutes was more valuable to the team than Horvat's iffy play with a bunch of PP points stapled on to it.
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This isn't wrong. He plays like a cream puff and his defensive game is worse than it was in his rookie season. He has all the talent in the world, and he even has a work ethic, but he doesn't seem to be heading in the right direction. In that series against Calgary he was hanging over the boards chirping, now he's less physical than Granlund. Not good.

Honestly I wish we had Torts. I think he didn't belong on a team that was trying to compete but couldn't, but I think he's a great coach to have around young upcoming talent.
 
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Disappointed EP40

Disappointed EP40

Registered User
Jan 13, 2015
3,222
1,720
I think Horvat still has a couple things to round out his game, but anyone that thinks that Sutter outplayed him, has more value, or in any way did better last year than Horvat is completely bat-shit delusional.
 
krutovsdonut

krutovsdonut

eeyore
Sep 25, 2016
16,883
9,563
we are going to eat horvat now?

long summer i guess.

my take is that horvat is trying to transcend his destony and be a 1c and in the process is getting away from a few things that make him a classic 2c. on the bright side, it will reduce the bumps and grinds and maybe lengthen his career.
 
Wo Yorfat

Wo Yorfat

dumb person
Nov 7, 2016
2,962
3,924
Catbug said:
I think Horvat still has a couple things to round out his game, but anyone that thinks that Sutter outplayed him, has more value, or in any way did better last year than Horvat is completely bat-**** delusional.
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I don't think that's true. Horvat's my favourite Canuck and I think he had a fine year, but Sutter was very good. I think Willie deployment Sutter has clouded perceptions. Last yr Bo outscored him by 8 pts at ES. Bo played a couple more games but close enough. When you factor in linemates and deployment, it's perfectly fair to say Sutter outperformed Horvat at ES, it's certainly fair to say Sutter is/was better on the PK. I never want to see Sutter again get noteworthy PP minutes as he's awful on it whereas Horvat is alright.

No one thinks Sutter has more value than Bo. I don't think anyone really likes Sutter, myself included. But there's no need to pretend that last yr Horvat blew him out of the water. Arguments are there for either player having had the better year. No sacrilege there.
 
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Askel

Askel

By the way Benning should be fired.
Apr 19, 2004
2,386
774
Malmö/Vancouver
Wo Yorfat said:
I don't think that's true. Horvat's my favourite Canuck and I think he had a fine year, but Sutter was very good. I think Willie deployment Sutter has clouded perceptions. Last yr Bo outscored him by 8 pts at ES. Bo played a couple more games but close enough. When you factor in linemates and deployment, it's perfectly fair to say Sutter outperformed Horvat at ES, it's certainly fair to say Sutter is/was better on the PK. I never want to see Sutter again get noteworthy PP minutes as he's awful on it whereas Horvat is alright.

No one thinks Sutter has more value than Bo. I don't think anyone really likes Sutter, myself included. But there's no need to pretend that last yr Horvat blew him out of the water. Arguments are there for either player having had the better year. No sacrilege there.
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Bo had 30 evenstrengt points in 64 games, Sutter had 22 even strength points in 61 games. Sutter didn't score at a pace close to harvats and he scored 9 its in the last 10 meaningless games. Sutter played a decent season last year but Horvat was much much better.
 

Jimbo57

Registered User
Jan 28, 2018
475
569
MS said:
Anything to contribute other than 'NO HE ISN'T!'?

Where's the improvement?
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The following stats should be up your alley, they are from a spreadsheet pusher source. Regarding your ES point comparison: have you ever considered that a major injury could slow a player down ? I mean how dare he break his foot and not go on a production incline upon his return. Do you actually watch games or do you only study the spreadsheets? Thats the problem with spreadsheet pushers, they take out the human element from the game and assume the player is a number producing robot.

In the meantime...you asked for "where's the improvement":

 
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Shareefruck

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,969
3,703
Vancouver, BC
Jimbo57 said:
The following stats should be up your alley, they are from a spreadsheet pusher source. Regarding your ES point comparison: have you ever considered that a major injury could slow a player down ? I mean how dare he break his foot and not go on a production incline upon his return. Do you actually watch games or do you only study the spreadsheets? Thats the problem with spreadsheet pushers, they take out the human element from the game and assume the player is a number producing robot.

In the meantime...you asked for "where's the improvement":

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You're embarrassing yourself. Anyone who is familiar with MS' posting knows he isn't a spreadsheet pusher. He watches and breaks down the games with as much consideration as any of us.

You on the other hand have repeatedly thrown out baseless straw men, false assumptions, and petty sarcastic quips instead of making any attempt to argue in good faith.
 
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DonnyNucker

Registered User
Mar 28, 2017
4,002
2,896
cookiefest said:
How do you get blindsided in a summer game?
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Are you serious? Have you ever played hockey? I’ll break it down for you. It’s a fast paced game and sometimes collisions happen. Quiet often they aren’t intentional. Remember Stekl on Crosby? Something similar probably happened to Roussel.
 
Fire Benning

Fire Benning

diaper filled piss baby
Oct 2, 2016
6,970
8,252
Hell
DonnyNucker said:
Are you serious? Have you ever played hockey? I’ll break it down for you. It’s a fast paced game and sometimes collisions happen. Quiet often they aren’t intentional. Remember Stekl on Crosby? Something similar probably happened to Roussel.
Click to expand...

Yes that was in an actual game. One would assume they aren't playing at a playoff-level of intensity in August.
 
Megaterio Llamas

Megaterio Llamas

el rey del mambo
Oct 29, 2011
11,250
5,972
North Shore
cookiefest said:
Yes that was in an actual game. One would assume they aren't playing at a playoff-level of intensity in August.
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But accidents do happen. You see teammates collide in the pre game skate every once in a while for example. Remember Taylor Hall got clipped by someone in the pre game skate a couple of years back and hit his head while not wearing a helmet. The Oilers actually instituted a helmet rule for the skate in the wake of that incident. Officials take the odd spill and sometimes get hurt too. Things like this don't occur every day, but, every now and then.....
 
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