Player Discussion Antoine Roussel

[VanJack]

For all the angst about Beagle and Roussel, posters do realize that their combined salaries equal the same amount of money the Canucks are paying Louie Eriksson every season. And if you're really looking for 'bad contracts' look no further than Sutter or Gudbranson. So the notion that the Canucks 'have to overpay' to get decent free agents is a myth. Jimbo will 'overpay' the guys he's already got.

 

[LeftCoast]

For all the angst about Beagle and Roussel, posters do realize that their combined salaries equal the same amount of money the Canucks are paying Louie Eriksson every season. And if you're really looking for 'bad contracts' look no further than Sutter or Gudbranson. So the notion that the Canucks 'have to overpay' to get decent free agents is a myth. Jimbo will 'overpay' the guys he's already got.

For me, the issue is not the salary - we are not at the cap, so they could pay each of them the cap max as far as I care. The problem is term. You simply can't give middling role players over the age of 30 4+ year contract. These contracts (along with Loui Eriksson's) are not a problem this year, or possibly even next, but beyond that will be regrettable.

 

[Melvin]

For me, the issue is not the salary - we are not at the cap, so they could pay each of them the cap max as far as I care. The problem is term. You simply can't give middling role players over the age of 30 4+ year contract. These contracts (along with Loui Eriksson's) are not a problem this year, or possibly even next, but beyond that will be regrettable.

That's a silly way to look at it though.

If they aren't good players after year two then you release them. The problem is the money.

 

[LeftCoast]

That's a silly way to look at it though.

If they aren't good players after year two then you release them. The problem is the money.

You can't "release" players from NHL contracts. NHL contacts are not renegotiable, cancellable (except in rare circumstances), have no option years and all salary and signing bonuses and cap amounts are guaranteed.

There is a longer explanation of waivers, buyouts, buried contracts, etc., but basically short of a player retiring (if his contract came into effect before the age of 35 years ) or coming up with a long term injury and being placed on LTIR every year (Hossa, Robidas, Lupul), an NHL contact can not be shortened or terminated.

 

[Zippgunn]

What role is that? Running around winding the other team up? Who are they going to take it out on when he's not on the ice?

It's called an "agitator", a guy who throws the other team off their game. They can often be very effective. With Dorsett going down early last year we didn't have one for the rest of the season and it showed.

 

[lush]

You can't "release" players from NHL contracts. NHL contacts are not renegotiable, cancellable (except in rare circumstances), have no option years and all salary and signing bonuses and cap amounts are guaranteed.

There is a longer explanation of waivers, buyouts, buried contracts, etc., but basically short of a player retiring (if his contract came into effect before the age of 35 years ) or coming up with a long term injury and being placed on LTIR every year (Hossa, Robidas, Lupul), an NHL contact can not be shortened or terminated.

The latter scenario you mentioned (LTIR) is pretty common. Would love to actually see some objective numbers on what % of reg season games players over 35 are on IR with their cap hits being replaced vs % of games played by guys over 35

For that age range my sense is it's pretty high

With that said one always aspires not to have any such contracts of declining players on bad cap hits that may or may not be injured a lot and over 35, but for me I've given up on such aspirations at this point and am willing to accept it for a bunch of reasons like backbone for the teenagers and entertainment value for anybody willing to see a live game

 

[Addison Rae]

It's called an "agitator", a guy who throws the other team off their game. They can often be very effective. With Dorsett going down early last year we didn't have one for the rest of the season and it showed.

he also is top 10 in minor penalties taken annually so seems like he’s doing a pretty shitty job of his role.

 

[Zippgunn]

he also is top 10 in minor penalties taken annually so seems like he’s doing a pretty ****ty job of his role.

I would think it proves the opposite. I'm betting he takes a lot of guys with him...

 

[Shareefruck]

I would think it proves the opposite. I'm betting he takes a lot of guys with him...

It may be compatible with the opposite, but I don't see how it "proves" the opposite.

 

[F A N]

he also is top 10 in minor penalties taken annually so seems like he’s doing a pretty ****ty job of his role.

I thought that penalties drawn was more important than minor penalties taken in terms of evaluating the success of an "agitator?"

 

[brokenhole]

I thought that penalties drawn was more important than minor penalties taken in terms of evaluating the success of an "agitator?"

I don't think that is Rousell tho. Some Dallas fans said be prepared to be on the PK a lot with him.

 

[pitseleh]

Over the last three years, Roussel has drawn 10 fewer penalties than he has taken. Reasonable when you consider how many penalties he takes, and not far off from breaking even, but also not great in that he is in the bottom ~15% of forwards with at least 500 minutes played.

 

[forty47seven]

I thought that penalties drawn was more important than minor penalties taken in terms of evaluating the success of an "agitator?"

I don't think that is Rousell tho. Some Dallas fans said be prepared to be on the PK a lot with him.

Stats from the reverse end

Not sure how accurate these stats are but Roussel was tied for 40th last season with 27 drawn penalties. Horvat has the top ranked Canucks tied for 177th with 16 drawn. His ratio of minor penalties taken to drawn is pretty close to 1:1.

 

[Hit the post]

Stats from the reverse end

Not sure how accurate these stats are but Roussel was tied for 40th last season with 27 drawn penalties. Horvat has the top ranked Canucks tied for 177th with 16 drawn. His ratio of minor penalties taken to drawn is pretty close to 1:1.

You have to somehow convert those numbers to take into account of hockey teams (ie., you know that we rarely get the benefit of the calls thanks to the Kelly "I have a Vendetta against the Canucks" Sutherlands of the league). I think they should rename a Richmond landfill after him.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Some Dallas fans said be prepared to be on the PK a lot with him.

he took three consecutive minor penalties in a 9 minute span in the first period of the first game of the season last year. the third penalty (interference) was assessed one second after his previous penalty (goaltender interference) had expired.

 

[forty47seven]

You have to somehow convert those numbers to take into account of hockey teams (ie., you know that we rarely get the benefit of the calls thanks to the Kelly "I have a Vendetta against the Canucks" Sutherlands of the league). I think they should rename a Richmond landfill after him.

I'm okay with that as long as they rename the sewage treatment plant on Annacis Island after Stephane Auger.

 

[krutovsdonut]

well this seems to harsh the narrative a little. 4 teams willing to go to 4 years. wow.

 

[Ryp37]

Reminds me of when Edmonton was willing to go 7 years with David Clarkson as well

I kinda feel bad for Roussel though, with no Dorsett , Archibald likely not a regular and Gudbranson thinking he’s too important to go off for 5 minutes he’s gonna have a lot of pressure as the go to grit guy which might burn him out even quicker

 

[F A N]

I kinda feel bad for Roussel though, with no Dorsett , Archibald likely not a regular and Gudbranson thinking he’s too important to go off for 5 minutes he’s gonna have a lot of pressure as the go to grit guy which might burn him out even quicker

Nah. Roussel will just play his game. He'll be in year 1 of a 4 year contract. Lots of job security there.

 

[The Iron Goalie]

Looking at his production the last 5 years gives me hope that he'll be worth his contract, but last years drop in production is cause for concern.

2012/13 - 39Gp 7G 7A 14Pts 0.359PPG (This was his 1st NHL season, and he played half of it in the AHL)
2013/14 - 81Gp 14G 15A 29Pts 0.358PPG
2014/15 - 80Gp 13G 12A 25Pts 0.313PPG
2015/16 - 80Gp 13G 16A 29Pts 0.363PPG
2016/17 - 60Gp 12G 15A 27Pts 0.45PPG
2017/18 - 73Gp 5G 12A 17Pts 0.233PPG

So we can see Roussel was a consistent 3rd line scorer for ~4 years in a row heading into last season, and then...a massive ~35% drop in overall production, and a 68% drop in goal production. My worry is the game he plays may be catching up with him, but I hope the lack of production last season was due to a lesser role, as some Stars fans have mentioned. Imo if he can play his game, and produce at the levels seen previous to last season, this will be a solid contract. If not, and he truly has regressed...it could end up being a mess.

 

[Melvin]

You can't "release" players from NHL contracts. NHL contacts are not renegotiable, cancellable (except in rare circumstances), have no option years and all salary and signing bonuses and cap amounts are guaranteed.

There is a longer explanation of waivers, buyouts, buried contracts, etc., but basically short of a player retiring (if his contract came into effect before the age of 35 years ) or coming up with a long term injury and being placed on LTIR every year (Hossa, Robidas, Lupul), an NHL contact can not be shortened or terminated.

Do you think I'm stupid? I was not talking about terminating the contracts, ffs; I am well aware that the money is guaranteed, that is the entire point.

If a player sucks after 2 years you buy him out. The fact that you get little salary relief is neither here nor there. If you sign a guy to a 4x3M contract and buy it out after two years, even if the contract was 100% signing bonus then it's exactly the same as if you had signed him a 2x6 in the beginning. That is why it makes no sense to say "the money isn't the problem it's the term." The money is the term.

The problem is that teams think that because they have a player signed to a contract that they are obligated to have him on the roster, but that is because teams are run by stupid people. Realistically a player should be taken off the roster the moment he is not one of the best 23 players available and you just keep paying him the same as we were paying John Tortorella to not be a coach or Mike Gillis to not be a GM. It's a sunk cost.

The problem is the 12M dollars that are committed to Antoine Roussel. It makes no difference how many years it's paid out over.

Or at least it should make no difference. It will of course, again because stupid.

 

[Zippgunn]

You have to somehow convert those numbers to take into account of hockey teams (ie., you know that we rarely get the benefit of the calls thanks to the Kelly "I have a Vendetta against the Canucks" Sutherlands of the league). I think they should rename a Richmond landfill after him.

Right, I forgot, the terrible conspiracy against the Canucks by the NHL. How could I forget?

 

[Hit the post]

Right, I forgot, the terrible conspiracy against the Canucks by the NHL. How could I forget?

Please to me you Kelly Sutherland. How is your day so far?

edit: and some of that bias is well deserved by the Canucks having in the past a number of "agitators" that were known to try and draw penalties. Surprise, surprise when the officiating start to not give you the benefit of the doubt in certain situations. This isn't FIFA.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Please to me you Kelly Sutherland. How is your day so far?

edit: and some of that bias is well deserved by the Canucks having in the past a number of "agitators" that were known to try and draw penalties. Surprise, surprise when the officiating start to not give you the benefit of the doubt in certain situations. This isn't FIFA.

you get blackballed in fifa also. ask neymar.

 

[Hit the post]

you get blackballed in fifa also. ask neymar.

Fair enough (though the guy still could give M. Lappiere (sp?) some rolling around in pain lessons).

edit: I should give SOME credit though to Lappy for cleaning up much of his act when he became a Canuck.