Prospect Info: Anthony Mantha

[Frk It]

Mantha has been lighting up the AHL so far, but it seems the Wings want him to play a more complete game.

Thoughts? Do you think you can/should have forwards in the lineup that aren't two way players?

Click to read more...

 

[InGusWeTrust]

Unless you are a lock to score 50 goals a season like Alex Ovechkin. Then you better have an average or above defensive game. I don't see anything wrong with them wanting Mantha to improve defensively.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Context? Recent comments by Blash/Holland?
I mean we know you need to be a decent all-around player to make the Wings but both Mantha and AA are improving so they're getting there.

 

[Frk It]

Context? Recent comments by Blash/Holland?
I mean we know you need to be a decent all-around player to make the Wings but both Mantha and AA are improving so they're getting there.

Cotsonika just put out an article on Vanek with a bunch of commentary from Blashill, so I'm assuming this comes from him.

In some tweets after this, Cotsonika said he was giving insight as to why Mantha isn't on the team right now.

 

[Tatar]

That said there's no doubt Mantha is ready for full time. Both Mantha and AA are waiver exempt. No reason not to trade AA and Mantha up and down and see who sticks.

 

[Heaton]

Unless you are a lock to score 50 goals a season like Alex Ovechkin. Then you better have an average or above defensive game. I don't see anything wrong with them wanting Mantha to improve defensively.

Which is how the Wings have ruined a few players over the years. I'm by no means a Brendan Smith fan, but forcing him to abandon his offensive instincts and force him to play a defensive defenseman game completely ruined so much of his effectiveness.

Let players play to their strengths.

 

[njx9]

Which is how the Wings have ruined a few players over the years. I'm by no means a Brendan Smith fan, but forcing him to abandon his offensive instincts and force him to play a defensive defenseman game completely ruined so much of his effectiveness.

And he *still* isn't very good at it, so you not only messed up his offense, you didn't actually gain any defense.

I think if a player like Mantha is head and shoulders better offensively than a guy on the roster, and only slightly worse defensively, he should be on the roster. If his defense is that bad, put him on a line with a guy like Nielsen. But a team that was as bad as the Wings were at scoring goals last year doesn't have the luxury of refusing to play offensive talent.

I wonder, is this a coaching issue or a FO issue?

 

[Frk It]

I think the concern is twofold by the Wings, reading these collection of tweets. I think it is both defensive play and compete level.

I think "consistent work" is referring to compete level, and "attention to detail" is referring to defensive play.

Sorry guys, wish I had more info I just thought it was interesting and I also thought Mantha deserved his own thread.

 

[ap3x]

Generally, I appreciate the approach of trying to make the best out of our young guns. Thus, forcing them to improve their two-way-play before "fully" rewarding them. But tbh, I don't have the feeling that the judgment of our veterans is anywhere as strict when it comes to earning their TOI.

 

[Yemack]

Which is how the Wings have ruined a few players over the years. I'm by no means a Brendan Smith fan, but forcing him to abandon his offensive instincts and force him to play a defensive defenseman game completely ruined so much of his effectiveness.

Let players play to their strengths.

I dont think that's true. You dont suddenly become dumb offensively by playing in defensive system. You just dont have enough chance to utilize your skill. Beside, I dont think his lack of offensive whatever is his problem. I also dont see anyone really criticizing his offensive game. It's the other part that's huge problem for him right now.

If this is Brendan Smith's best defensive effort after years of defensive system and teaching, he just never had it to take it to the next level. Some of the mistakes he does right now is not due to whatever dungeon Wings placed him into. You'd agree it's due to lack of brain cell, which is why he keeps getting duped by opponents.

There maybe some players Wings mismanaged developing. But a lot of times, I think it's on players on why they couldnt cut it. Our prospects are not as good as some of us rate them to be.

 

[Heaton]

I dont think that's true. You dont suddenly become dumb offensively by playing in defensive system. You just dont have enough chance to utilize your skill. Beside, I dont think his lack of offensive whatever is his problem. I also dont see anyone really criticizing his offensive game. It's the other part that's huge problem for him right now.

If this is Brendan Smith's best defensive effort after years of defensive system and teaching, he just never had it to take it to the next level. Some of the mistakes he does right now is not due to whatever dungeon Wings placed him into. You'd agree it's due to lack of brain cell, which is why he keeps getting duped by opponents.

There maybe some players Wings mismanaged developing. But a lot of times, I think it's on players on why they couldnt cut it. Our prospects are not as good as some of us rate them to be.

Sure you do, I agree his offensive abilities may have been overrated, but when it's beaten into your head that you are not allowed to do things that were natural to you, you eventually lose that part of your instincts because you're now programmed to think defense all the time.

 

[Yemack]

Sure you do, I agree his offensive abilities may have been overrated, but when it's beaten into your head that you are not allowed to do things that were natural to you, you eventually lose that part of your instincts because you're now programmed to think defense all the time.

well you may have a point. But you do agree it's not really his offensive game as to why he is heading to pressbox soon or later.

 

[Heaton]

well you may have a point. But you do agree it's not really his offensive game as to why he is heading to pressbox soon or later.

I just think in a case like Mantha, you need to allow him to be who he is, flaws and otherwise. It's not reasonable or practical to believe every player is going to be above average defensively. Let him think offense, this team NEEDS offense, not more defensive minded players.

 

[Reddwit]

Some players just aren't cut out to be two-way guys and I don't think there's anything wrong with that, nor do I think it has anything to do with compete level, like some people like to insinuate.

Sure, there are guys out there who just don't want to backcheck but there are also guys out there who lose themselves in the drive to score and, for whatever reason, aren't able to flip the switch from offense to defense as fast as necessary. I think for a lot of those guys, demanding two-way play is either a near fruitless endeavor or reduces their effectiveness offensively, thus reducing their effectiveness overall. I don't think guys like Tatar or Holmstrom or Hudler are/were never going to be stalwarts defensively because they didn't try to be but rather because they just didn't have the natural instinct for it.

Now, I'm not saying Mantha should be given a free pass but I sure as hell don't think we should wait around until he develops some notable two-way game down in the AHL. He's going to have a specific role at the NHL level and those kinds of players don't need to be a jack of all trades if they can dominate one.

Also, he's very Franzen-esque in his body language, so its hard to get a read on his compete level.

 

[Frk It]

I just think in a case like Mantha, you need to allow him to be who he is, flaws and otherwise. It's not reasonable or practical to believe every player is going to be above average defensively. Let him think offense, this team NEEDS offense, not more defensive minded players.

I think outside of the elite talents, 1 way forwards (for lack of a better term) are very frustrating to coaches. I remember Hudler being a healthy scratch here and getting demoted all the time, and he was a pretty good example of a 1 way or 1 dimensional forward. And even after being productive in Calgary and Florida, he had a bit of a hard time finding a contract this offseason.

Not sure if it's because a lot of coaches are old school, or they just hate the stretches where offense isn't there.

 

[Yemack]

I just think in a case like Mantha, you need to allow him to be who he is, flaws and otherwise. It's not reasonable or practical to believe every player is going to be above average defensively. Let him think offense, this team NEEDS offense, not more defensive minded players.

I dont think this team needs offense as much right now. It hasnt been the issue this season so far. Also part of the reason why we are having success on offense is due to our players beating opponents. The skill Wings precisely described in that twitter played some part in that. And it wasnt like we beat other teams around board all game long. We won just enough at the right time to make it work so it's not like we have abundant of those skill and can afford to go easy on it.

btw it's not like I want Mantha to be some 2 way monster at NHL level, known as solid 2 way player or a beast along the board, although that would be very nice and with his tool, he could do it. If he has a potential to score 25-30 goals in NHL, maybe then we can start compromise here and there but other than that, I think there's minimum expectation required. I wasn't watching Mantha closely in preseason so I dont have much say in his compete level at this point. I just know he improved quite a bit.

I dont think there's much need to get too antsy about Mantha. He is going to get his start in NHL this season. He just needs to play his game and has a hand in help this team win games when he gets the chance.

 

[jkutswings]

I just think in a case like Mantha, you need to allow him to be who he is, flaws and otherwise. It's not reasonable or practical to believe every player is going to be above average defensively. Let him think offense, this team NEEDS offense, not more defensive minded players.

Agreed. But it would also be easier to let forwards play to their strengths if there was a decent defense behind them.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

This mentality is generally crippling. "Let's make a square peg fit through a circular hole." Let players play to their strengths indeed.

 

[Henkka]

I'd like Mantha be just like Vanek.

A liable BEAST.

 

[SirloinUB]

This mentality is generally crippling. "Let's make a square peg fit through a circular hole." Let players play to their strengths indeed.

I don't think that's the mentality. I think the idea at play is getting the most out of Mantha's skill set. I'm Not saying these are perfect comparisons but why settle for a Kessel/Franzen type player if Mantha has the potential to be a Jamie Benn?

 

[InGusWeTrust]

Which is how the Wings have ruined a few players over the years. I'm by no means a Brendan Smith fan, but forcing him to abandon his offensive instincts and force him to play a defensive defenseman game completely ruined so much of his effectiveness.

Let players play to their strengths.

I agree that it could be a factor, But do you think Smith would be out there producing 50+ points if he was let go? Even when he is on the PP and rushing the puck up ice...I'm not overly thrilled with him as a NHL level.

If Mantha is let go to play hockey is he going to be THAT great offensively to counter his lack of defense game?

 

[Heaton]

I dont think this team needs offense as much right now. .

I couldn't disagree more, we're coming off of our worst offensive since in 50 years, offense is and should be our most pressing concern. We need a better defense to drive offense, our current defense can be 'fine' defensively.

 

[Heaton]

I agree that it could be a factor, But do you think Smith would be out there producing 50+ points if he was let go? Even when he is on the PP and rushing the puck up ice...I'm not overly thrilled with him as a NHL level.

If Mantha is let go to play hockey is he going to be THAT great offensively to counter his lack of defense game?

The problem with Smith is that he never had an opportunity to play the type of game that he played during College which was a reason why we drafted him. I don't think our scouts were like 'Oh, this great college offensive defensemen will be a perfect fit for our defensive defensemen no power play time void'.

I agreed at times, but Babcock played that one wrong.

 

[Frk It]

Not coincidentally, HSJ put out a positive piece on Mantha just now:

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/n...19/detroit-red-wings-anthony-mantha/92414608/

 

[The Zermanator]

Mantha should be in the NHL, he's got the offensive talent and that potential should be nurtured at the NHL level.

Besides, if defense/compete is an issue, I'd rather Mantha's development be put into the hands of NHL coaches at this point.