Prospect Info: Anthony Mantha

jkutswings

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Jul 10, 2014
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Right, but this is the endless repetition.

-Claim prospect is good and requires IT.
-Prospect comes up and is not good.
-Blame lots of stuff besides the prospect for not being good.
-Waste time arguing about unprovable what ifs.

Literally nothing Detroit demands of their players is something a good player should have a problem doing. 'Hey, fella, backcheck' should not be a command that renders a young player into a pile of unresponsive gelatinous goo. If it does, we're not talking about a good player. Nobody is demanding Mantha become an elite shutdown forward, or Smith to become Scott Bleeping Neidermayer circa Norris career. They are being asked to be vaguely competent defensively. If they cannot struggle over that low bar in order to merit NHL time, really, what are people complaining about?

Also, it's not a coaches job to elevate a player at the expense of the teams system. This isn't some progressive elementary school where little Johnny learns best by eating M and M's in the corner so we mustn't interfere. It's a collaborative effort. So, sure, maybe it might have been some small degree more individually beneficial for Brendan Smith to be given utterly free rein to roam about the ice untethered by thought or responsibility, but making Brendan Smith 9% more effective or fulfilled as a hockey player isn't the point.
I agree with much of what you're saying, and your overall theme. I do.

I'm just saying that, with Smith specifically, if you draft a guy known for his offense, but you now find yourself running a system that, frankly, plays possum to try and hide your lack of talent on offense, then objectively speaking, that's not the best fit for that player. And if the system is so different from his style of play, and there's no flexibility in said system, then rather than try to hammer the guy into a style of play that just isn't his forte - and the more you do it, the more obvious it becomes that it's not working very well - maybe they should have traded him while he still had at least a little value, instead of continuing down this "bang head against wall and hope for different results" road with him.

Maybe the guy never was going to pan out in the NHL. But they've continued this approach for so long, and provided so much evidence of him not working out, that now he's no longer even an asset to deal.
 

Henkka

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4th line. AA sent down to GR to build confidence and Ott in the pressbox.

Kind of yes. Sheahan should be put on 4th and Mantha takes net-front role at some line. I donöt think he is a good fit with Zetterberg because of lack of speed.

But maybe:

Zeta - Larkin - Akader
Mantha - Nielsen - Tatar
Vanek - Helm - Nyquist

That would be interesting.
 

Dotter

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Kind of yes. Sheahan should be put on 4th and Mantha takes net-front role at some line. I donöt think he is a good fit with Zetterberg because of lack of speed.

But maybe:

Zeta - Larkin - Akader
Mantha - Nielsen - Tatar
Vanek - Helm - Nyquist

That would be interesting.

Not a fan of your 2nd line. Take Mantha off and put Vanek or Nyquist there. Or even Sheahan
 

Henkka

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Not a fan of your 2nd line. Take Mantha off and put Vanek or Nyquist there. Or even Sheahan

Why?

Mantha = net-front/sniper
Tatar = sniper/grinder
Nielsen = playmaker/grinder
-------------

Zeta = playmaker
Larkin = sniper/grinder
Abdelkader = net-front/grinder
------------------

Vanek = net-front/grinder
Helm = grinder/sniper
Nyquist = playmaker/sniper(if he would shoot more!)

Nice mix in every line. Every one of TOP3 lines will need playmaker skill, some grinder/net-front skill and some goal-scoring skill. I see them as some kind of good mix. Not ideal, but there.
 

Dotter

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Why?

Mantha = net-front/sniper
Tatar = sniper/grinder
Nielsen = playmaker/grinder
-------------

Zeta = playmaker
Larkin = sniper/grinder
Abdelkader = net-front/grinder
------------------

Vanek = net-front/grinder
Helm = grinder/sniper
Nyquist = playmaker/sniper(if he would shoot more!)

Nice mix in every line. Every one of TOP3 lines will need playmaker skill, some grinder/net-front skill and some goal-scoring skill. I see them as some kind of good mix. Not ideal, but there.

Vanek or Sheahan would be a better "net front" than Mantha. I don't like Tatar as a grinder. Lol Zetterberg is better along the boards.
 

Winger98

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I really can't see it. That puts one of Buff/Myers/Hamonic on the 3rd pair. None of those guys are going to want that role.

This might be unpopular in Winny, but the guy they should unload is Buff. They aren't close to contending, he's 31, and he's unlikely to be the same impact D when they are ready to seriously contend. Deal him, bump Myers and Trouba up, everyone's happy.
 

Henkka

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Vanek or Sheahan would be a better "net front" than Mantha. I don't like Tatar as a grinder. Lol Zetterberg is better along the boards.

Mantha was already used as net-front at pre-season. Don't fool yourself and pipedream about anything else. It's his future role.
 

HockeyinHD

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I'm just saying that, with Smith specifically, if you draft a guy known for his offense, but you now find yourself running a system that, frankly, plays possum to try and hide your lack of talent on offense, then objectively speaking, that's not the best fit for that player.

The reason they do that is because they don't have any good offensive blueliners, Green being the exception. If Smith's offensive game translated into the NHL the need to play a system to protect a team with little dman offense would be obviated. Also, it's not like Smith has just labored under Blashill. He was largely ineffective on offense under Babcock, too.

I guess in short, when it comes to describing a player calling them an offensive defenseman doesn't necessarily mean they're actually good offensively, just that they are better at offense than they are at defense. They might just stink worse in one phase than another.

That applies to Smith, sadly.

maybe they should have traded him while he still had at least a little value, instead of continuing down this "bang head against wall and hope for different results" road with him.

They needed Smith or Kindl to pan out, so they both got (and in Smith's case still get) miles and miles of rope that players at other positions wouldn't. I was moderately surprised they even traded Kindl, although it was obvious he was done here. I figured Detroit would do with him what they've done with pretty much every dman they've drafted... hold onto them until they absolutely had to let them go on the off chance they blossomed.
 

HockeyinHD

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This might be unpopular in Winny, but the guy they should unload is Buff. They aren't close to contending, he's 31, and he's unlikely to be the same impact D when they are ready to seriously contend. Deal him, bump Myers and Trouba up, everyone's happy.

Except the team is worse, and Winnipeg wants to make the playoffs.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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You trade Trouba because he doesn't want to play there. I seriously don't believe that it is a role thing. He just doesn't want to play there.

Buff and Wheeler aren't guys they are going to move on from anytime soon. They are guys that were totally willing to sign their future to that area.

That is really the hold up with the Trouba situation. More than most cities they cannot have a guy bully his way out.

I really like both Mantha or AA and currently that isn't the ask out of Winnipeg, but I would be willing to deal either guy for Trouba in a heartbeat.
 

HockeyinHD

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I really like both Mantha or AA and currently that isn't the ask out of Winnipeg, but I would be willing to deal either guy for Trouba in a heartbeat.

Well, sure. The problem is Winnipeg would laugh at a trade offer where AA or Mantha are the centerpieces.
 

Claypool

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Jan 12, 2009
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Because they need a LHD

Seems like they need a lot of things right now. Norris-to-be Tyler Myers is stinking the joint up. Bet you they'd rather trade him and move Trouba in his spot. Too late for that now, I guess. Actually, that defense is pretty poor all around. They also have too many young players in their top 6 that are being counted on to score.
 

Winger98

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You trade Trouba because he doesn't want to play there. I seriously don't believe that it is a role thing. He just doesn't want to play there.

Buff and Wheeler aren't guys they are going to move on from anytime soon. They are guys that were totally willing to sign their future to that area.

That is really the hold up with the Trouba situation. More than most cities they cannot have a guy bully his way out.

I really like both Mantha or AA and currently that isn't the ask out of Winnipeg, but I would be willing to deal either guy for Trouba in a heartbeat.

Which is the big problem for Winny. If this is the lion's share of the reason he wants out, and it's well known around the league, it's probably also well-known where he would want to go to. And where he would also refuse to play. Good luck trading that guy.

And Detroit is, if we're drawing conclusions after 10 days. Are we?

where has Winny finished four of the past five years?
 

Wood Stick

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Seems like they need a lot of things right now. Norris-to-be Tyler Myers is stinking the joint up. Bet you they'd rather trade him and move Trouba in his spot. Too late for that now, I guess. Actually, that defense is pretty poor all around. They also have too many young players in their top 6 that are being counted on to score.

Goalies - Check
Wingers - Check

They are really, really deep in both areas. At centre you have a returning Bryan Little who call me crazy is a low tier 1/high end 2. After that you have Mark Scheifele who's pretty much the same thing. Call it two high end number 2s, both with good two-way hockey and under 30. Sure they could use a number 3 C I guess but this isn't a position that they absolutely need. They need a top pairing LHD. Enstrom has slowed down, he's a second pairing DD and Morrisey isn't ready for top minutes.

Winnipeg is struggling, but they have potential. That backend just needs work. Seems like we're entering a era of RHD instead of your usual LHD.
 

Number1RedWingsFan52

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Well, sure. The problem is Winnipeg would laugh at a trade offer where AA or Mantha are the centerpieces.

First off i seriously doubt that any one here, Is suggesting that either Mantha or AA would be the main pieces going to Winnipeg. They would be included more then likely with Danny DeKeyser and maybe a 2nd round pick. Winnipeg doesn't need wingers the only piece that Detroit has that Cheveldayoff would even consider for Trouba is Larkin and that's definitely not happening.
 

HockeyinHD

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First off i seriously doubt that any one here, Is suggesting that either Mantha or AA would be the main pieces going to Winnipeg.

"I really like both Mantha or AA and currently that isn't the ask out of Winnipeg, but I would be willing to deal either guy for Trouba in a heartbeat."

They would be included more then likely with Danny DeKeyser and maybe a 2nd round pick.

... which now makes it a trade WE should laugh at.

Winnipeg doesn't need wingers the only piece that Detroit has that Cheveldayoff would even consider for Trouba is Larkin and that's definitely not happening.

How about Mrazek?
 

TheMule93

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"I really like both Mantha or AA and currently that isn't the ask out of Winnipeg, but I would be willing to deal either guy for Trouba in a heartbeat."



... which now makes it a trade WE should laugh at.



How about Mrazek?

No its a trade you would laugh at. Dekeyser doesn't impress me at all, I wouldn't mind moving him especially with his new contract.

Trouba is younger and better. I don't know id love the trade but I'd do it and certainly wouldn't laugh at it ad I think it improves us overall
 

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