Post-Game Talk: Another Tampa fiasco

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Nubmer6

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i like what youre saying….

"doing more" sometimes get you out of position.

its a trickle down effect too…feel the need to cover for someone…leave yourself in a bad place.


got to all be on the same page
The more I think of it, the more I think it's a problem with the offense too. We're trying to do too much at times, especially if we get behind. So we start trying to force plays and end up losing the puck. Hall's definitely guilty of that. Palms was guilty in the OT loss.

We also start going for the home run passes. Big, long stretch passes that get intercepted more often than not. I'm not sure if that's because the passer is looking for it, or if the forwards are going up ice too far.

We really need to simplify, make short passes, cover our assignments, and generally be more disciplined.
 

guitarguyvic

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Cory is no longer an NHL caliber goalie. Losing 17 straight games (and I believe he’s given up at least 3 in every single one)... career is over. What the hell are we supposed to do with this guy for the rest of the season?
 
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Bleedred

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Cory I got to be better.
It's the new tough building.
Cory sounds like he's on the verge of tears in this interview, sheesh.

I genuinely feel bad for the guy. He sounds so dejected. He knows he's in a really, really bad place right now.
It's not his fault he's broken down and can't play anymore, but he is broken and he can't play anymore.
Hynes confirmed kk tomorrow. Didnt sound to enthused when talking about cory
He's gonna get him fired a lot faster. And I don't like Hynes, but bad goaltending gets coaches fired.
You think Keith wins this game with the way we are playing?
Oh come on now, there's literally someone saying this EVERY game that Cory plays at this point! Isn't it possible that Cory is toast, finished, just not good anymore?

You really can't say what the team would have done with a different goalie on any given night, but going back the last two years, Keith is a better goaltender than Cory and this season there's a lot fewer blowouts that happen in the games he plays. I mean, christ, we've been blown out in 4 of Cory's 5 starts! How many blowouts have we had with Keith all season? Maybe 3 at the most? And he's played 3 times as many games!

Regardless, he needs to go next year. Be it LTIR, Buy out, however you gotta get him off the team. I would send him to Binghamton right now for a conditioning stint and play him a couple weeks there. We can't do that? Waive him and let him play there two weeks. No one's gonna take him on waivers and if they do? So f***in what. Praise god that some dummy bailed us out.

Let him play in Binghamton for the next couple weeks and see if he can get it together down there.
 

Bleedred

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Cory is no longer an NHL caliber goalie. Losing 17 straight games (and I believe he’s given up at least 3 in every single one)... career is over. What the hell are we supposed to do with this guy for the rest of the season?
I was talking with my buddy at the game just earlier and I asked him ''Realistically, do you think Cory will ever have another shutout in the NHL again? He said pretty comfortable ''Probably not''. I agreed that he probably won't, because I don't see him in the league by 2020-2021. He'll either be bought out after this year and some team will sign him to a one year deal because of what he used to be, he probably won't fair better there then he'll be UFA and go unsigned in the summer of 2020. Or we buy him out in 2020 when the amnesty buyouts happen, assuming there's a new CBA, or he's permanently on LTIR by then.

I think there's a good chance he never has a shutout for the rest of his career. It seems unlikely watching him play that he'll ever have a 1 goal against game (in which he starts and finishes), but he probably will if not just by freak luck.

Over his last 110 games played now, Cory has a .907% save percentage. That's including the playoffs last year, that's including his hot start last year. If you go back to his last 18 regular season games played? He has an .863% save percentage, which is identical to what his save percentage is on the season. So he's maintained this play for 18 consecutive regular season games. If you include the playoffs? He's at a .906% save percentage since last December 29th and I'm surprised it's even that high. That's how good he was in that series.
 

guitarguyvic

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I don’t think I’ve ever seen a goalie this awful playing for any team for any length of time. His save percentage this season is around .865 and it’s probably not much better if you go back to his last 17 starts or however many consecutive games it is that he’s lost. Somebody mentioned Hedberg earlier in the thread...Moose was much better than this in his last 20 games for us, and those were bad as well.

This guy can’t remain on the team this season. He seems like an ok guy but his play is a f***in cancer on the team. They might not be able to recover from this poor first quarter either way, but you gotta at least give the team a fighting chance. Every time they have to play Cory the team knows it’s basically an automatic loss...that’s just too much to overcome no matter what they do from here on out.
 
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Bleedred

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And as for Cory, he can be better. Thing is, it’s not going to happen behind this train wreck of a team. How the **** do you find a way to build confidence when you’re playing behind a team that is allergic to engaging in any form of resistance against the opposition? I’m not letting Cory off the hook either. They need him to be better, but he also has to build his game up and I just don’t see how that’s possible withthe way this team is playing. They’re defending is laughably bad at times.
Again, isn't it possible that Cory is just finished as a player? I think the only thing in question is whether or not Cory is just a bad but still serviceable goaltender, or if he's just a bad and less than occasionally competent goaltender anymore, which is what he's looked like this year so far. That sample size is too small to say anything definitively yet, but the big picture is this is a significantly below league average goaltender since the start of the 16-17 season.

And can you blame the team? Every time he gets in there you can't go 5 minutes into a game without getting scored on anymore. The last few you can't go 5 minutes or much more into the game without allowing 2 goals.

And the bottom line is this team looks much better when Cory isn't in there. Kinkaid has games like this sometimes, but they happen with a lot more frequency when Cory is in.
 

Bleedred

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I don’t think I’ve ever seen a goalie this awful playing for any team for any length of time. His save percentage this season is around .865 and it’s probably not much better if you go back to his last 17 starts or however many consecutive games it is that he’s lost. Somebody mentioned Hedberg earlier in the thread...Moose was much better than this in his last 20 games for us, and those were bad as well.

This guy can’t remain on the team this season. He seems like an ok guy but his play is a ****in cancer on the team. They might not be able to recover from this poor first quarter either way, but you gotta at least give the team a fighting chance. Every time they have to play Cory the team knows it’s basically an automatic loss...that’s just too much to overcome no matter what they do from here on out.
Agreed.

I don't even think Marty looked this bad in his last season. He had some shutouts and 1 goal against games that season and there was still a sect of people that blamed the team when Marty got lit up. It's the same thing now with Cory.

His save percentage (regular season only) is .863% since this losing streak started last December 29th. And it's exactly .863% this season.

We're probably stuck with him for this year, but he doesn't look like he has many years left to play, be it because of eroding skill or injuries not allowing him to even get on the ice.

At this point, I'd love to know the last time a Devils goalie allowed 3 or more goals in 16 of 17 consecutive starts. Or is it 17 of 18 now? Think I may be counting a relief appearance in there, which came the last time we played Tampa. If it's happened before, it was in the 80's or earlier. I wanna know if it's happened this decade to any goalie in the league.
 

VoidCreature

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At 0-15-2, the Devils have taken 2 of a possible 34 points in Schneider's last 17 starts.

If he played every game of an NHL season at that pace, the Devils would earn four points in the standings the entire year.

Four.

The worst team in NHL history, the 1974-75 Washington Capitals, earned 21 points.

No excuses, that level of play is unacceptable. The man is done. Finished.
 

Bleedred

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Goal 1 was ALL HIS FAULT! He gave the puck away, there shouldn't have even been a shot on goal.

Goal 2: That's a shot that hits him right in the chest in the days when he was still good. Not saying he didn't occasionally allow that goal, but he probably stopped it 80% or more percent of the time. This is not a good goal. He was in position for this one and it just beat him.

Goal 3: No chance

Goal 4: Fluky but another stoppable one.

Goal 5: Vatanen with a beautiful snipe. Can't fault Cory for getting beat by his own teammate, unless it was from the blue line or something.

At the very least, I'd hope he'd stop at least two of goals 1, 2 or 4.

And the worst part about tonight? BOTH goals on Domingue were terrible. He should have had a shutout tonight, but he gives the puck away like Cory did on the first Devils goal, then he gets beat by a shot that goes right through him from Bratt.
 

Bleedred

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At 0-15-2, the Devils have taken 2 of a possible 34 points in Schneider's last 17 starts.

If he played every game of an NHL season at that pace, the Devils would earn four points in the standings the entire year.

Four.

The worst team in NHL history, the 1974-75 Washington Capitals, earned 21 points.

No excuses, that level of play is unacceptable. The man is done. Finished.
I think that if he started more games, he'd probably win some, just due to sheer luck, but if Cory was our starter this year? I wouldn't be surprised if we finished with 50 points on the season. We might get to 60 if he picked up his play a bit.

That's assuming he played 50-60 games this year. With what I've seen, it wouldn't be pretty. And that's assuming he start winning some games and having a few 2 goal against games here and there just due to luck. I don't think we'd be the worst team in NHL history, but we might be the worst team in Devils history and a bottom 5-10 team of this entire millennium to this point.

That's why I'm saying, he should be bought out after this year, unless he's able to permanently LTIR'd. I think Shero knows it, and I think Hynes knows and hopes he's not gone before it happens.
 

guitarguyvic

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I know it may not be realistic but I really feel like he should be off the team ASAP. How can you move forward with a guy that has a regular season wining percentage of 0 through his last quarter season’s worth of games? Hynes can only play Keith so much. I guess he could give Keith like 70 games but that’s really not a recipe for success when the team as a whole has not really played all that well.

They have 5 wins in their last 18 games. They have more than enough talent to win at a much better clip than that. That’s expansion level trash. Combination of amateur coaching with automatic L every time the backup plays.
 

Bleedred

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I know it may not be realistic but I really feel like he should be off the team ASAP. How can you move forward with a guy that has a regular season wining percentage of 0 through his last quarter season’s worth of games? Hynes can only play Keith so much. I guess he could give Keith like 70 games but that’s really not a recipe for success when the team as a whole has not really played all that well.

They have 5 wins in their last 18 games. They have more than enough talent to win at a much better clip than that. That’s expansion level trash. Combination of amateur coaching with automatic L every time the backup plays.
The only problem with this is that while we certainly could find better goaltending than Cory somewhere (I think McElhinney might be better at this point and that's sad), it won't come in the organization.

Eddie Lack has been as bad in the AHL this year as Cory has in the NHL. And he was pretty bad in the AHL last year too.
 

NJ07102

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He has us behind in the first few minutes of each of his last 3 starts. Nobody is even asking to stand on his head just give the team a chance. I am actually baffled by anyone still actually trying to defend this or shift blame.

What else is there to say? The game went exactly as anyone with a little bit of hockey knowledge knew it would go. The staff probably knew it would go this way as well, which is why they gave Cory the start. KK can't play back to back and in Florida they have a better chance to get 2 points. Cory looked like total horseshit again and basically scored the fist goal himself. After that it just went downhill as expected. Just waiting for the smart guys that blame it all on Yak. You can't win without goaltending and Schneider unfortunately is not better than an average AHL-goalie. Actually, he is probably worse than that. Even Wedgewood would give us a better chance to win.
 
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billingtons ghost

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You think Keith wins this game with the way we are playing?

I think it is a different game without that first goal. Hell, Cory might have won this game without the first goal. We've seen him win with tire fires in front of him. I think the biggest question is why are they always a mess in front of him?

The last two with Cory in net were tough because the air was out of the balloon less than two minutes in.
 

Bleedred

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What else is there to say? The game went exactly as anyone with a little bit of hockey knowledge knew it would go. The staff probably knew it would go this way as well, which is why they gave Cory the start. KK can't play back to back and in Florida they have a better chance to get 2 points. Cory looked like total horse**** again and basically scored the fist goal himself. After that it just went downhill as expected. Just waiting for the smart guys that blame it all on Yak. You can't win without goaltending and Schneider unfortunately is not better than an average AHL-goalie. Actually, he is probably worse than that. Even Wedgewood would give us a better chance to win.
Okay, you had me.... Until Wedgewood.:laugh:
 

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Up until Schneider was injured in the Boston Game January 23rd, his save percentage up until that point was
.915%.

He started off well last season, the whole team did, and he got worse as the season dragged on. Then he got hurt in the Boston game, and was complete dog shit when he came back.

Kinkaid’s save percentage is .914% this season.

If you got look back and compare the starts between Kinkaid and Schneider, Kinkaid actually posted the higher save precentage against tougher teams.

Kinkaid is the better goalie at this point, and this team better keep him instead of worrying about how foolish management looks handing Schneider the contract he has, which now looks horrible.
 

haak84

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Kinkaid's 5 worse starts:
0-4-1
.847 save %
5.07 GAA

Schneider's 5 starts:
0-5-0
.864 save %
4.14 GAA

I think if Cory played like he did the final 2 periods for the 1st period he allows 1-2 goals. thats along with not making the dumb behind the goal play.

The team is 4-7-2 since Schneider returned from injury. 4-2-2 in games not started by Schneider. Not sure what the organization does at this point. If the team doesn't think it can contend for a playoff spot then maybe just roll with Schneider and hope he finds his game. If he does, trade him. Trade KK. Try to get a high pick and as many assets in return as possible. Hope to sign KK in the offseason. If the team wants to contend then it needs to send Cory to the AHL, hope he finds his game, and roll with Keith the rest of the way.
 

Bleedred

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I think it is a different game without that first goal. Hell, Cory might have won this game without the first goal. We've seen him win with tire fires in front of him. I think the biggest question is why are they always a mess in front of him?

The last two with Cory in net were tough because the air was out of the balloon less than two minutes in.
I really had no problem with the way we were playing until that first goal happened. In fact, I'd easily say the start to the Islanders game was much worse. I was saying in the GDT the other day ''Don't let the score fool you, this is our worst start in quite some time''. And not to mention, Keith made a pretty big save early in that Islanders game. We can say this is a team problem, but Kinkaid has played like 16 or 17 games. Well, actually it's 18, but he's started 17 and he's allowed 2 or fewer goals in half of his starts. Cory has allowed 2 or fewer goals in 4 of his 5 starts. We've been blown out of the building in 3 of those. And the only one where he allowed 2 goals was against the worst shooting team in the league and both goals came in the first 30 seconds.

Does that mean every goal he allows is a poor one? Of course not, but almost half the goals he's allowed this season have been poor. I think this was his worst game, he was worse tonight than Ottawa or Winnipeg. A lot of those goals he had no chance on, but allowed one poor goal in both games, but goals 1, 2, 4 are all weak goals. Goal 2 looks like a nice shot from player ''Wide open'', but that's a save that he makes 75%-80% of the time 2+ years ago. That hits him in the chest and most people don't even notice or even call it a ''Big save''.
 
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billingtons ghost

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I don’t know why I get so upset at loses like this.
The devils just don’t have the firepower to compete with a roster like Tampa.
All I care about is the team trying their butt off and play with passion.
If you look at the team on paper... there is no way anyone would say we would of made the playoffs last year. Same goes for this year now. Hall is not in beast mode and reality is setting in .
Who in the NHL has a weaker top 6 and overall D pairings?
We have one true 1st line player in Hall , an up and coming 1c and....that’s it. Bratt has looked good but other than that we have crap and nothing in the pipeline either.
Hopefully Shero can weave some magic and use cap space to an advantage but so far no one was worth spending $ on as an UFA or an expensive contract that has fallen out of favour with their team? Like Tarasenko (a person can dream) or William Nylander

The only way teams actually get anywhere is by having the sum be greater than the parts. You looked at the 95 team and we had no chance against Detroit's firepower. You look back now and see a team with character guys.

I agree this team doesn't have the firepower, but we were a legit playoff team because of how we played....
And, if we skate and everyone does their part, we can be again.
Right now, there are lots of guys who simply thought they could show up this year without exceeding last year's effort.
It is a circus out there, and they need to settle down and just start paddling.
 

Bleedred

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The Cory post game is linked there. He legit sounded like he was going to cry. Definitely beyond the “I have to save that” answers.

At this point, I think he should be waived, just to salvage what could be left of him. Waive him with the purpose of giving him a couple weeks of AHL games to try to get his game together. Don't waive him to punish him or get him off the team (at least not yet), but to try and get his game going, because I don't think we can send him for another conditioning stint. Maybe we can? We did with Jimmy Hayes last year when he wasn't playing, but then we can only have him there for 3 games? I'd like to see him play about 6 games right now in the AHL before you call him back up.

Just call up Lack (don't play him though! God no) and have him back up for 2 weeks and send Cory down. No one's gonna claim him, not with 3 years left at big money.

And if you're Hynes, Shero and Melanson, you let Cory know that this is pretty much a conditioning stint, not that we're getting rid of you for good or anything like that.
 

billingtons ghost

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I really had no problem with the way we were playing until that first goal happened. In fact, I'd easily say the start to the Islanders game was much worse. I was saying in the GDT the other day ''Don't let the score fool you, this is our worst start in quite some time''. And not to mention, Keith made a pretty big save early in that Islanders game. We can say this is a team problem, but Kinkaid has played like 16 or 17 games. Well, actually it's 18, but he's started 17 and he's allowed 2 or fewer goals in half of his starts. Cory has allowed 2 or fewer goals in 4 of his 5 starts. We've been blown out of the building in 3 of those. And the only one where he allowed 2 goals was against the worst shooting team in the league and both goals came in the first 30 seconds.

Does that mean every goal he allows is a poor one? Of course not, but almost half the goals he's allowed this season have been poor. I think this was his worst game, he was worse tonight than Ottawa or Winnipeg. A lot of those goals he had no chance on, but allowed one poor goal in both games, but goals 1, 2, 4 are all weak goals. Goal 2 looks like a nice shot from player ''Wide open'', but that's a save that he makes 75%-80% of the time 2+ years ago. That hits him in the chest and most people don't even notice or even call it a ''Big save''.

I agree. And it is all confidence. Too deep in his net. Tentative. Not flowing, not instinctive. Ugly loss tonight and really just about as ugly as I've seen from him.
 

Emperoreddy

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Yeah I feel like you have to waive him with the purpose of playing for an extended time.

I don’t know what else you can do. He sounds as mentally shot as almost any player I have heard.
 
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